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Thread: Coming to Arizona for Bike Week

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I have a Texas CHL and need to know particulars on where I can open/conceal carry. Also would like to know if anything special about transport in a vehicle.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    You are able to open/conceal carry pretty much anywhere... The usual places are off limits (federal buildings, schools, and where that has a posted sign). Open carry is common only place you can't open carry is places that serve alcohol (you can conceal no prob). Car carry is fine. Just make sure you keep your CHL on you if you conceal.Hope youenjoy the feeling of letting yourgun feel the breeze. ;-)

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    TylerEMT wrote:
    Hope youenjoy the feeling of letting yourgun feel the breeze. ;-)
    You can bet I will. Thanks.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    I have a Texas CHL and need to know particulars on where I can open/conceal carry. Also would like to know if anything special about transport in a vehicle.
    This is the documentthat AZ CCW instructors are required to teach from. It covers most of the stuff you are looking for.

    Thanks to AzCDLyour Texas CHL is recognized in Arizona.

    One big difference between the two states is caryring where booze is sold. Only CCW permit holders can carry into places where booze is consumed, and a "we don't serveyour kind" (e.g. No Firearms) Jim Crow sign is not posted. You also cannot consume alcohol in those places.

    And, unlike TX, open carry is legal - but clouded by court decisions.

    Fred

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    Also would like to know if anything special about transport in a vehicle.
    Sorry, I overlooked this in my prior comment. As long as you have a CCW permit, you're cool. The relevant statute is ARS 13-3102.G. Unfortunately, because of a couple of 1994 court decisions, a gun in a vehicleis considered a concealed weapon unless it's holstered (in a case, etc.) and in the glove compartment, map pocket, storage compartment or trunk.

    With your CHL, you're fine to carry on your person or anywhere in the vehicle, but if your passenger does not have a CHL, they are at risk of "carrying concealed without a permit" if an LEO dtermines they have access to your gun. All that is dependent on your attitutde and the knowlege and mood of the LEO if you are stopped.

    Fred

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    "a gun in a vehicleis considered a concealed weapon unless it's holstered"

    Since I use a paddle, I keep the gun in the holster and put in the glove compartment, works in two ways

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, all good info to have. Anything else comes to mind, let me know. My son has decided to come along and he has no CHL. Is he going to be cool if he carries his holstered in the glove box and when he gets out to carry open on his person?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    My son has decided to come along and he has no CHL. Is he going to be cool if he carries his holstered in the glove box and when he gets out to carry open on his person?
    As long as he is 18 years or older, he can carry openly.

    Fred


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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    My son has decided to come along and he has no CHL. Is he going to be cool if he carries his holstered in the glove box and when he gets out to carry open on his person?
    If you are carrying on your person and he is sitting next to you, it doesn't matter where his gun is. In a vehicle, he could be cited for his proximity to YOUR firearm.

    Fred


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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    He'll actually be ina differentvehicle. Can he carry in the glovebox holstered?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    if your firearm is on your person(in your control),or if holstered in glove box,map pocket ect.your fine.If it is anywhere else then he can be charged.People have been charged with this for riding with people who have gun tucked between seats but if its on you then your good because otherwise everyone whosits next to you can get poped.I just took my ccw class on march 13th and we discussed this and the case law behind it.Basicly your ccw doesnt convey to others...

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    He'll actually be ina differentvehicle. Can he carry in the glovebox holstered?
    ARS 13-3102.G (Weapons misconduct): Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

    The "within a means of transportation" section has been all but negated by a 1994 court decision, but a holstered gun in the glove box (or one of the other "magic" places), is fine. Whether it's loaded or unloaded is irrelevant.

    Fred

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    different vehicle holstered in glove box loaded and hot he has no worries



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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll be in the process of looking at the laws to see if I can decipher them. Anything comes up, I'll let you know. You do the same please.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    ARS 13-3102.G (Weapons misconduct): Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

    maybe im just reading this wrong but... doesnt the "or" mean it can be carried in the glove box without being in a holster?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    r6-rider wrote:
    ARS 13-3102.G (Weapons misconduct): Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

    maybe im just reading this wrong but... doesnt the "or" mean it can be carried in the glove box without being in a holster?
    Read it this way. Must be in holster, etc.,PLUS either"within a means of transportation" OR "glove compartment, etc."

    The courts have dtermined the "within a means of transportation" to mean the gun must be visible from OUTSIDE the vehicle to not be considered concealed. That only leaves the glove compartment, etc.

    Bottom line - if you have a permit, you're "golden" to carry it any way you want (providing you don't have non-permit passengers). If you don't have a permit, shove it in holster, scabbard, etc. and stow it in a glove compartment, map pocket, trunk or storage compartment. And, it doesn't matter if it's loaded or not - it' still considered a deadly weapon under Arizona law.

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    ok well I am kinda in the same boat I'll be heading to Arizona next month for a week to do some photographing of your native reptile's I'll be in the south eastern area of the state and was wondering what limitations there are to open carry? I'll be spending most of my time out looking for stuff to photograph so most of my time will be out in the desert flipping rocks. To carry in the car I understand that it can be holstered and in the glove box and that is fine? Thanks for your response's and again sorry if I'm asking questions already answered a thousand times.

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    Ricky Ortiz wrote:
    ok well I am kinda in the same boat I'll be heading to Arizona next month for a week to do some photographing of your native reptile's I'll be in the south eastern area of the state and was wondering what limitations there are to open carry? I'll be spending most of my time out looking for stuff to photograph so most of my time will be out in the desert flipping rocks. To carry in the car I understand that it can be holstered and in the glove box and that is fine? Thanks for your response's and again sorry if I'm asking questions already answered a thousand times.
    make SURE your not on a reservation,they may not allow carry of anykind but more importantly they dont like people disturbing the natural habitat(ie. flipping rocks)other than that i think your good just at all times be aware of what kind of land your on and who's alot of land is private but not marked and you might be tresspassing...

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Ricky Ortiz wrote:
    what limitations there are to open carry?
    In addition to what brokenbarrel pointed out about Indian Reservations, open carry is also defined in ARS 13-3102.G under weapons misconduct. Per statute, the weapon's misconduct law "shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster that is wholly or partially visible, carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons that is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage." All this is predicated on NOT having a CCW permit. With a CCW permit, this doesn't apply and you can carry openly using any method you want. Open carry WITH a permit is perfectly legal and the best way to make sure you are legal. And, Arizona recognizes the permits of EVERY state (non-residents only).

    However, WITHOUT a CCW permit,you must wear a belt holster and the holster, NOT the gun must be visible. If you wear a Miama Vice wannabe shoulder rig, you are violating the law. If you wear a Rambo-wannabe thigh rig, you are violating the law. If you wear an IWB that hides the holster in your pants with only your gun showing, you are violating the law.

    It gets worse. The courts have interpreted "wholly or partially visible" to mean it must be obvious under ordinary observation thatyou are wearing a gun. If you are wearing a gun on your right side and are approached by a cop on your left side who does not see your gun, and you do not have a CCW permit, he can arrest you for CCW without a permit (it has happened).

    Now, all of this nonsense goes away (including the language in ARS 13-3102.G) if/when we get Constitutional Carry passed.

    Fred

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    azcdlfred wrote:
    Ricky Ortiz wrote:
    what limitations there are to open carry?
    In addition to what brokenbarrel pointed out about Indian Reservations, open carry is also defined in ARS 13-3102.G under weapons misconduct. Per statute, the weapon's misconduct law "shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster that is wholly or partially visible, carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons that is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage." All this is predicated on NOT having a CCW permit. With a CCW permit, this doesn't apply and you can carry openly using any method you want. Open carry WITH a permit is perfectly legal and the best way to make sure you are legal. And, Arizona recognizes the permits of EVERY state (non-residents only).

    However, WITHOUT a CCW permit,you must wear a belt holster and the holster, NOT the gun must be visible. If you wear a Miama Vice wannabe shoulder rig, you are violating the law. If you wear a Rambo-wannabe thigh rig, you are violating the law. If you wear an IWB that hides the holster in your pants with only your gun showing, you are violating the law.

    It gets worse. The courts have interpreted "wholly or partially visible" to mean it must be obvious under ordinary observation thatyou are wearing a gun. If you are wearing a gun on your right side and are approached by a cop on your left side who does not see your gun, and you do not have a CCW permit, he can arrest you for CCW without a permit (it has happened).

    Now, all of this nonsense goes away (including the language in ARS 13-3102.G) if/when we get Constitutional Carry passed.

    Fred
    Ok, well as for the disturbing land part whatever I flip I put back as exact as I flipped it. As for the reservation land I do not believe I'll be on any private or reservation land I'll check range maps to double check and see if I can find some kind of map that will outline private land. I'll be staying in Sierra vista. The holster I would be using is a Fobus paddle holster that fits a Ruger P95, if a cop approches me from my left and I keep my weapon on my right but keep a mag holder on my left side which is clearly visible can or will they still hassle me? Someone I am going with on this little trip said that he checked the laws and from what he told me he is not very accurate lol Thanks for the reply's with the info. Also, you can carry loaded open correct?

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    well being that your going to the sierra vista area you might want to call the local sheriff and see what they say..truth is i found that from casa grande south people with and without badges are very accepting of oc or cc if you have a permit.I just got my ccw friday mailed prints monday 4 days and it was in my hand a detective in the city where i live conducted the class it was an ok 8hrs but we sat on wood chairs with no padding(ouch)..me and my wife had sore tailbones-she took it too..anyways if you frequent our great state you should get your ccw..

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Ricky Ortiz wrote:
    if a cop approches me from my left and I keep my weapon on my right but keep a mag holder on my left side which is clearly visible can or will they still hassle me? Someone I am going with on this little trip said that he checked the laws and from what he told me he is not very accurate lol Thanks for the reply's with the info. Also, you can carry loaded open correct?
    A magazine is not a gun and a magazine pouch is not a holster, so techincally you can bearrested if you don't have a permit. The good news is that unless the coprelocated to Arizonafrom one of the disarmed citizens states, the cops in Arizona are good guys and gals and are used to seeing open carry and you shouldn't be hassled at all. I carry openly all the time and all I've ever heard from a cop was a compliment on my gun (Glock - of course!).

    Since Arizona is an open carry state,people areused to seeing citizens with guns. Down in Sierra Vista, it's probably more common than in Phoenix .

    Regarding carrying a loaded pistol. State law doesn't make the distinction and common sense says an unloaded pistol (or not having a chambered round) is basically a rock.

    There are a ton of urban legends on gun boards like this about what you can and cannot do. I recommend going to the source - this document at the DPS (State Police) website. It's what CCW instructors are required to teach from and it's the best summary of laws and court decisions regarding firearms.

    Fred



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    I've read quite a bit on AZ OC'ing, but i am still unsure if i am legaly OC'ing in my car. I get in my car and take off my holster/firearm, and place it on the passanger seat. Is this anacceptable way to open carry in my car? gun is holstered and no one else is in the car with me.some say yes, some say no. I live in far north-east mesa, mostly MCSO out here andi hear that they areare pro-gun, d'you think i'll have a problem? Any info to clear this up would be greatly appreciated

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    mrh2008 wrote:
    I get in my car and take off my holster/firearm, and place it on the passanger seat. Is this anacceptable way to open carry in my car? gun is holstered and no one else is in the car with me.some say yes, some say no.
    Unless you have a CCW permit, youcan be cited forviolating the law. Per the court's interpreation of ARS 13-3102.G, unless you have a CCW permit, your gun must be visible fromOUTSIDE the car EXCEPT if it is holstered and in one of the 4 magic places (glove compartment, map pocket, storage compartment or trunk).

    Attached is a flyer we hand out at gun shows. The second page has the quotes from the court cases. When we drafted the flyer, what is now ARS 13-3102.G was ARS 13-3102.F. It was changed last September and we haven't updated the cite. We hope to toss out our supply when Constitutional Carry is passed.


    UnlessOfficer Friendlyhas X-Ray vision he cannot see your gun from outside the car. He may be able to see it when he looks through the window standing next to your car, and at that point may or may not determine if the gun on the seat is a concealed weapon - it's his discretion. Fortunately, 99% of Arizona's LEO's are nice boys and girls, but all you need is someone who relocated from Illinois, New York, California, etc. and you are screwed, blued and tattooed.



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    i see, thanks for the info, i think thats a rediculous part of the law tho.

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