Kinda off topic...

I am a criminal justice major and our textbooks say that once an officer turns his lights on the entire vehicle is technically considered under arrest and everyone in the vehicle is subject to producing some form if ID upon request. If a passenger doesn't have ID they must give their name and DOB. Nobody in the vehicle is free to leave until the officer is done with his duties or gives permission to do so.

Click to expand...

RenegadeMarine wrote:

I am a criminal justice major and our textbooks say that once an officer turns his lights on the entire vehicle is technically considered under arrest and everyone in the vehicle is subject to producing some form if ID upon request. If a passenger doesn't have ID they must give their name and DOB. Nobody in the vehicle is free to leave until the officer is done with his duties or gives permission to do so.

Click to expand...

Textbook, smeckbook! Provide a cite to the MCL!

Click to expand...

Taurus850CIA wrote:

taxwhat wrote:

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?

Click to expand...

Which department?

Click to expand...

:lol: Exactly!!!

Click to expand...

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?

Click to expand...

taxwhat wrote:

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?

Click to expand...

I would say it depends upon the circumstances, the individual officer (as well as the type of day he/she is having), and the agency/judge/PA/etc...

Click to expand...

PDinDetroit wrote:

RenegadeMarine wrote:

I am a criminal justice major and our textbooks say that once an officer turns his lights on the entire vehicle is technically considered under arrest and everyone in the vehicle is subject to producing some form if ID upon request. If a passenger doesn't have ID they must give their name and DOB. Nobody in the vehicle is free to leave until the officer is done with his duties or gives permission to do so.

Click to expand...

Textbook, smeckbook! Provide a cite to the MCL!

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I saw a lot of people on this thread giving their personal opinions without citing MCL, so I figured that I would give my educated opinion on thematter. Should I refrain from doing this in the future?

Click to expand...

ghostrider wrote:

taxwhat wrote:

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?

Click to expand...

I would say it depends upon the circumstances, the individual officer (as well as the type of day he/she is having), and the agency/judge/PA/etc...

Click to expand...

I think what Mr. Taxman is trying to insinuate is that what an officer "can" and "might" do drastically differs from what an officer is "legally allowed" to do, and if you are shot to death while fleeing from being "not detained" it will be little comfort to you that you would have made it to work on time...

I would not apply a blanket judgement, but rather evaluate every situation as it comes. A friend of mine likes to constantly repeat the advice that "just because you have a nuclear weapon does not mean you should detonate it"

Click to expand...

I think what Mr. Taxman is trying to insinuate is that what an officer "can" and "might" do drastically differs from what an officer is "legally allowed" to do, ...

Click to expand...

I would not apply a blanket judgement, but rather evaluate every situation as it comes.

Click to expand...

Typical cop answer "If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem?"

The problem is that I value my privacy and you dont, officer.

Click to expand...

taxwhat wrote:

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?"

to me it would seem that they would probably shout get back in the car or taze you and arrest you for refusing an order.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

ghostrider wrote:

taxwhat wrote:

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?

Click to expand...

I would say it depends upon the circumstances, the individual officer (as well as the type of day he/she is having), and the agency/judge/PA/etc...

Click to expand...

I think what Mr. Taxman is trying to insinuate is that what an officer "can" and "might" do drastically differs from what an officer is "legally allowed" to do, and if you are shot to death while fleeing from being "not detained" it will be little comfort to you that you would have made it to work on time...

I would not apply a blanket judgement, but rather evaluate every situation as it comes. A friend of mine likes to constantly repeat the advice that "just because you have a nuclear weapon does not mean you should detonate it"

Click to expand...

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

I think what Mr. Taxman is trying to insinuate is that what an officer "can" and "might" do drastically differs from what an officer is "legally allowed" to do, ...

Click to expand...

He implied it, while I specifically stated it.
after reading your post again I realize I am basically agreeing with you... so I suppose you're right and there is no real reason for me to have said it...


Evil Creamsicle wrote:

I would not apply a blanket judgement, but rather evaluate every situation as it comes.

Click to expand...

Tax_what didn't ask what I (or any of us) would do. He asked "Officer does What ?"
I am aware of that. I should have made it more clear that this particular statement of mine was in response to the original topic, not your post, as I always try to respond to the original questions no matter what other comments I may have.

Answer: Whatever he wants to do. That being dependent upon training/experiences/ Da/judges/etc...

...yes, that's the point I was making.

Click to expand...

I happened to research this subject recently. Some states have so called "stop and identify" laws. Those states require that you disclose some ID information about yourself if you are legally "detained". Amount of information differs from state to state and varies from requirement to disclose name only to requirement to disclose name, date of birth and address. Currently, there are 23 such states. Michigan is not one of them .

In Michigan person absolutely is not required to produce
ID or even verbally to disclose name. This is true regardless weather you are detained or arrested. You may remain mute and you are completely within the Law. If arrested, you will not be able to escape charges by not disclosing your name. First, you will be denied bond because of that. Second, the State will assign a name for you for the purpose of processing you through the legal system. The name will be something like "Joe The Doe" or similar. You will be charged, convicted and do jail time under that name.

Above is true only if you not operating a motor vehicle or carrying a concealed pistol. In this case you are required to provide DL or CPL.

Another thing to keep in mind is that "stop and identify" laws are usually not preempted like firearm laws. This means that localities might have "stop and identify" law even though State of Michigan does not. I recently went through all city of Rochester Hills ordinances and found no requirements to disclose anything. So, it is prudent to check your local ordinances.

However, based on Hiibel vs. Nevada case, states and localities can not require to disclose more than name and even that in verbal form only. So, if in doubt about your locality ordinances, disclose only name but do not provide ID. As I mentioned above, some states go beyond and require that date of birth and address to be provided. This is beyond Hiibel vs. Nevade US Supreme Court decision. Many believe that any law that requires disclosure of anything more than name (verbally) is on a shaky ground.

Click to expand...

ghostrider wrote:

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

ghostrider wrote:

taxwhat wrote:

Question : One is passenger .TS is for rolling stop sign [ no drugs,stolen property or such] .After stop and driver gives All proper ID toLEOthen asks for passenger for ID . And is told no Thank You Officer I am Late for work and must now walk. Then starts to walk away . Officer does What ?

Click to expand...

I would say it depends upon the circumstances, the individual officer (as well as the type of day he/she is having), and the agency/judge/PA/etc...

Click to expand...

I think what Mr. Taxman is trying to insinuate is that what an officer "can" and "might" do drastically differs from what an officer is "legally allowed" to do, and if you are shot to death while fleeing from being "not detained" it will be little comfort to you that you would have made it to work on time...

I would not apply a blanket judgement, but rather evaluate every situation as it comes. A friend of mine likes to constantly repeat the advice that "just because you have a nuclear weapon does not mean you should detonate it"

Click to expand...

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

I think what Mr. Taxman is trying to insinuate is that what an officer "can" and "might" do drastically differs from what an officer is "legally allowed" to do, ...

Click to expand...

He implied it, while I specifically stated it.
after reading your post again I realize I am basically agreeing with you... so I suppose you're right and there is no real reason for me to have said it...


Evil Creamsicle wrote:

I would not apply a blanket judgement, but rather evaluate every situation as it comes.

Click to expand...

Tax_what didn't ask what I (or any of us) would do. He asked "Officer does What ?"
I am aware of that. I should have made it more clear that this particular statement of mine was in response to the original topic, not your post, as I always try to respond to the original questions no matter what other comments I may have.

Answer: Whatever he wants to do. That being dependent upon training/experiences/ Da/judges/etc...

...yes, that's the point I was making.

Click to expand...

Comments in Red ghostrider, was not jumping on you just 'overclarifying'

Click to expand...

Comments in Red ghostrider, was not jumping on you just 'overclarifying'

Click to expand...

Supreme Court ruled that the officer does have the right to control whether the occupants stay in or exit the vehicle.

Click to expand...

CrossPistols wrote:

Supreme Court ruled that the officer does have the right to control whether the occupants stay in or exit the vehicle.

Click to expand...

Cite.

Click to expand...

This cite is relative to having the occupants exit the vehicle.

Does not address identification or detainment.

Click to expand...