Tea Party & 2nd Amendment

vt357 · Mar 16, 2010

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If the tea party groups don't think people should OC then maybe they should remove the fangs from the rattlesnake on the Gadsden flags. Oh and the rattle too. In fact better change the whole thing to a cute little garter snake. Please oh please don't read on me.
Don't want to scare anybody by "brandishing" our fangs. Better to keep our mouths shut. :banghead:

wylde007 · Mar 16, 2010

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roscoe13 wrote:

You forgot hypocrites...

Thank you.

useful_idiot · Mar 16, 2010

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Is it just me...or do his 2A views seem astoundingly dated. Brandishing? Police applicant washouts? Only carry in "dangerous places?"

His message clearly intends to influence OC'ers to stay away or play by their rules...obviously, moreso the former than the latter.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth of his statements about how the MSM covers any event with armed participants.

Your Humble Servant,

useful_idiot

richarcm · Mar 16, 2010

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ufcfanvt wrote:

Why not allow the Tea Party to be just about the astronomical taxes we pay?
Why must every right-leaning (gun ownership/carry shouldn't be a Right-Wing issue anyways) group attempt to Co-opt the Tea Party.
This merely plays into the hands of those who love big-government, which will inevitably restrict/abolish our right to own/carry weapons.
We're all independent individuals with rights and brains, but the reason political parties and movements work is because they act with focus and in unison to achieve their objectives. If you want the Tea Party to die, keep making a huge deal out of each pet issue you have!

It does take two to tango. The VCDL and OCDO are about guns. TEA Parties are about taxes and spending. I don't see a WHOLE lot of crossover coming from either base. Although it was nice to see the Richmond TEA Party contribute to the 2A during Lobby Day.

Repeater · Mar 16, 2010

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Years ago I read a great book written by Nat Hentoff, a well-known civil-liberties activist, entitled:

Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee: How the American Left and Right Relentlessly Censor Each Other

Hentoff's guiding principle in this casebook is that the First Amendment's protection of free speech must be given to all, even to those whose views are repugnant. It is not only right-wingers who have censored free expression, he argues, but anti-porn feminists, blacks who attempt to ban Huckleberry Finn from schools (because the novel includes the word nigger), gays who supported a blacklisting of Anita Bryant, and other enforcers of political correctness. Hentoff, a syndicated columnist and Village Voice regular, endorses American Nazis' right to march in Skokie, Ill., in 1977, arguing that hatred should be brought into the open and confronted with the truth. He supports flag-burners' First Amendment rights and opposes anti-bigotry speech codes on campuses, maintaining that politically correct" students and professors have stifled debate. He also criticizes the harsh limitations imposed on picketing anti-abortion groups. Hentoff's fierce consistency in this libertarian manifesto will draw the wrath of critics.

In general, too many Americans view their liberties selfishly.

Liberty for me, but not for thee. Get it?

richarcm · Mar 16, 2010

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What percentage of the users on the board would you guess regularly attend TEA Party events? I don't know for sure but I think there are only a handful of people on here that volunteer at all for issues other than gun rights. And I only say that because I've been on here begging people to be more active politically...to go to TEA Parties, to volunteer, to phone bank, etc and I was looked at more as an annoyance because I was talking about something not gun related. I've been to TEA Parties advertised on this site and the only person I keep seeing is NOVA. And I know that 99% of you guys/gals don't step outside unless you are open carrying.

Its frustrating to ME personally because NEITHER group is "crossing the aisle" to work with the other and IF WE DID....we would DOUBLE how many people attended BOTH of our events. We would be so much more effective. But TEA Partiers don't want to go to gun events and gun guys don't want to go to rallies or TEA Parties.

Repeater · Mar 16, 2010

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useful_idiot wrote:

Is it just me...or do his 2A views seem astoundingly dated. Brandishing? Police applicant washouts? Only carry in "dangerous places?"

His message clearly intends to influence OC'ers to stay away or play by their rules...obviously, moreso the former than the latter.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth of his statements about how the MSM covers any event with armed participants.

Your Humble Servant,

useful_idiot

Dated? Hoplophobia appears to be timeless.

This screed was published recently:

Socrates' Gun - Perhaps it’s time for pro-gun people to seriously examine why they believe what they believe.

The picture is of people at a picnic or barbeque, with some wearing handguns in holsters. The man in white almost made me laugh, he looked so ludicrous. He immediately gave me an image: Affectation!

This may seem like an attack on gun owners/carriers, but I am trying to show how non-gun people often see the gun aficionados strutting around with their armaments. It raises, to me, a fundamental question to which I am still seeking a reasonable answer: Why do ostensibly civilized people feel the need to arm themselves with weapons to kill (when necessary or provoked) their fellow citizens?

Like almost all Canadians, Brits, Europeans and citizens of many other nations, I don’t believe that walking around with a gun in a holster is a socially positive act.

He then goes on to ridicule reasonable people who dared to provide comments to his opinion-piece:

Greg February 28, 2010 1:34 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. Johnson. I am an American gun owner. That's why I am a citizen and not a subject of the queen. You are a journalist, start by reading the US constitution and then some world history. Regards.

The Queen is the symbolic head of Canada and the Commonwealth. She has exactly zero power. I, too, am a citizen but I regard myself as more free than you because I don't need to own a gun to feel safe. I am well steeped in world history, in contradistinction to most Americans (sounds like you fit the bill) who believe they are the centre of the universe.

Pagan · Mar 16, 2010

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I volunteer for issues other than gun rights quiet frequently. Such as eviromental issues in our county, and pro constitution issues in general.

Also with the tax stamps required to have somevery effectiveweapons and accessories, the tea party types should be all over "tax" stamp requirments.

But that dude is right about one thing, I do crave authority..the authority to decide if I live or die in a violent attack, the authority to tell the government that I am a free man, and an attempt to enslave me or my fellow citizens will be met with deadly resistance, also the authority to decide who may come and go freely upon my land and home, any a$$hole with a violent plan and NO guncan gain authority over other people, even if short lived.

peter nap · Mar 16, 2010

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richarcm wrote:

What percentage of the users on the board would you guess regularly attend TEA Party events? I don't know for sure but I think there are only a handful of people on here that volunteer at all for issues other than gun rights. And I only say that because I've been on here begging people to be more active politically...to go to TEA Parties, to volunteer, to phone bank, etc and I was looked at more as an annoyance because I was talking about something not gun related. I've been to TEA Parties advertised on this site and the only person I keep seeing is NOVA. And I know that 99% of you guys/gals don't step outside unless you are open carrying.

Its frustrating to ME personally because NEITHER group is "crossing the aisle" to work with the other and IF WE DID....we would DOUBLE how many people attended BOTH of our events. We would be so much more effective. But TEA Partiers don't want to go to gun events and gun guys don't want to go to rallies or TEA Parties.

I'm not sure about that.
Grapeshot is at just about every event I go to in the Central Va area. Further out, no OCDO and few VCDL but then again most of what I do there is either rural or agricultural.

But, yes, I'm involved in a lot of things other than gun events.

richarcm · Mar 16, 2010

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peter nap wrote:

richarcm wrote:

What percentage of the users on the board would you guess regularly attend TEA Party events? I don't know for sure but I think there are only a handful of people on here that volunteer at all for issues other than gun rights. And I only say that because I've been on here begging people to be more active politically...to go to TEA Parties, to volunteer, to phone bank, etc and I was looked at more as an annoyance because I was talking about something not gun related. I've been to TEA Parties advertised on this site and the only person I keep seeing is NOVA. And I know that 99% of you guys/gals don't step outside unless you are open carrying.

Its frustrating to ME personally because NEITHER group is "crossing the aisle" to work with the other and IF WE DID....we would DOUBLE how many people attended BOTH of our events. We would be so much more effective. But TEA Partiers don't want to go to gun events and gun guys don't want to go to rallies or TEA Parties.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that.
Grapeshot is at just about every event I go to in the Central Va area. Further out, no OCDO and few VCDL but then again most of what I do there is either rural or agricultural.

But, yes, I'm involved in a lot of things other than gun events.

And like I said there are a handful of people. But percentage-wise it is VERY small. And again, the rallies I've been to up here in NOVA the only person I've seen is.....NOVA. I do remember a handful of OCers at the Richmond TEA Party last year....but again....a handful.

Point is BOTH sides need to be more supportive of each other. All it can do is make us BOTH more powerful. At the end of the day I can only see that as a good thing. And the more we mingle....probably the more gun friendly they will become. Just a hunch....I've already noticed a difference in some of the TEA Partiers who attended Lobby Day. We just have to stop turning our noses up at them. They are not accustomed to guns. They need to be edumacted like anyone else.

nova · Mar 16, 2010

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richarcm wrote:

peter nap wrote:

richarcm wrote:

What percentage of the users on the board would you guess regularly attend TEA Party events? I don't know for sure but I think there are only a handful of people on here that volunteer at all for issues other than gun rights. And I only say that because I've been on here begging people to be more active politically...to go to TEA Parties, to volunteer, to phone bank, etc and I was looked at more as an annoyance because I was talking about something not gun related. I've been to TEA Parties advertised on this site and the only person I keep seeing is NOVA. And I know that 99% of you guys/gals don't step outside unless you are open carrying.

Its frustrating to ME personally because NEITHER group is "crossing the aisle" to work with the other and IF WE DID....we would DOUBLE how many people attended BOTH of our events. We would be so much more effective. But TEA Partiers don't want to go to gun events and gun guys don't want to go to rallies or TEA Parties.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that.
Grapeshot is at just about every event I go to in the Central Va area. Further out, no OCDO and few VCDL but then again most of what I do there is either rural or agricultural.

But, yes, I'm involved in a lot of things other than gun events.

Click to expand...

And like I said there are a handful of people. But percentage-wise it is VERY small. And again, the rallies I've been to up here in NOVA the only person I've seen is.....NOVA. I do remember a handful of OCers at the Richmond TEA Party last year....but again....a handful.

Point is BOTH sides need to be more supportive of each other. All it can do is make us BOTH more powerful. At the end of the day I can only see that as a good thing. And the more we mingle....probably the more gun friendly they will become. Just a hunch....I've already noticed a difference in some of the TEA Partiers who attended Lobby Day. We just have to stop turning our noses up at them. They are not accustomed to guns. They need to be edumacted like anyone else.

I just show up at stuff supporting people who are against the people against what I support. :lol:

peter nap · Mar 16, 2010

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Repeater, read this. It was on one of my feeds this morning. Follow the link. It will give a good picture of guns, the right to hunt and freedom.

People died of malnutrition even as they were surrounded by plenty. Food was still being exported from Ireland. Streams and ponds were full of fish and forests and fields full of deer, but Irish Catholics had no legal right to hunt or fish. Anyone who did so was called a poacher. Poaching 'the King's deer' technically earned the poacher a death sentence, although in practice the sentence would often be commuted to either a long prison term or transportation to Australia.
http://rule-303.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-to-eat-on-st-patricks-day.html

Grapeshot · Mar 16, 2010

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richarcm wrote:

Point is BOTH sides need to be more supportive of each other. All it can do is make us BOTH more powerful. At the end of the day I can only see that as a good thing. And the more we mingle....probably the more gun friendly they will become. Just a hunch....I've already noticed a difference in some of the TEA Partiers who attended Lobby Day. We just have to stop turning our noses up at them. They are not accustomed to guns. They need to be edumacted like anyone else.

Two particular Tea Party events come to mind that were packed with VCDL and OCDO people. The first great downtown Richmond event at the Plaza and the one at Chesterfield Fair Grounds.

I have not attended any Tea Party events at local restaurants because of the gun unfriendly locations selected. Whose fault is that - mine?

Believe me when I tell you that you will show up with out your pants before I will disarmed.

Now I have taken the first step in indicating my willingness to help.
Your turn - is my friend welcome or not?

Yata hey

peter nap · Mar 16, 2010

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Grapeshot wrote:

richarcm wrote:

Point is BOTH sides need to be more supportive of each other. All it can do is make us BOTH more powerful. At the end of the day I can only see that as a good thing. And the more we mingle....probably the more gun friendly they will become. Just a hunch....I've already noticed a difference in some of the TEA Partiers who attended Lobby Day. We just have to stop turning our noses up at them. They are not accustomed to guns. They need to be edumacted like anyone else.

Click to expand...

Two particular Tea Party events come to mind that were packed with VCDL and OCDO people. The first great downtown Richmond event at the Plaza and the one at Chesterfield Fair Grounds.

I have not attended any Tea Party events at local restaurants because of the gun unfriendly locations selected. Whose fault is that - mine?

Believe me when I tell you that you will show up with out your pants before I will disarmed.

Now I have taken the first step in indicating my willingness to help.
Your turn - is my friend welcome or not?

Yata hey

The fairgrounds are a good example GS. They didn't open any parking making it necessary to park at the school across the street.

Grapeshot · Mar 16, 2010

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peter nap wrote:

The fairgrounds are a good example GS. They didn't open any parking making it necessary to park at the school across the street.

I parked on the fair grounds, told the officer that I was carrying (he could see OC) and could not park on school property - suggested he call his supervisor if need be. He let me stay.

Yata hey

richarcm · Mar 16, 2010

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Grapeshot wrote:

richarcm wrote:

Point is BOTH sides need to be more supportive of each other. All it can do is make us BOTH more powerful. At the end of the day I can only see that as a good thing. And the more we mingle....probably the more gun friendly they will become. Just a hunch....I've already noticed a difference in some of the TEA Partiers who attended Lobby Day. We just have to stop turning our noses up at them. They are not accustomed to guns. They need to be edumacted like anyone else.

Click to expand...

Two particular Tea Party events come to mind that were packed with VCDL and OCDO people. The first great downtown Richmond event at the Plaza and the one at Chesterfield Fair Grounds.

I have not attended any Tea Party events at local restaurants because of the gun unfriendly locations selected. Whose fault is that - mine?

Believe me when I tell you that you will show up with out your pants before I will disarmed.

Now I have taken the first step in indicating my willingness to help.
Your turn - is my friend welcome or not?

Yata hey

Well I didn't go to those two however I have been to several up here and in Richmond where again where carry WAS perfectly legal and saw at most two or three other people. I'm not saying there aren't people out there supporting the other causes and I'm not saying that every event that they have is gun friendly.....but MANY MANY of them are....because I go to them. The fact still remains that the TEA Partiers could be warmer to the gun group AND visa-versa. If it were simply about whether or not guns were allowed there might be a legitimate argument. But that is only the case a small percentage of the time.

richarcm · Mar 16, 2010

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peter nap wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

richarcm wrote:

Point is BOTH sides need to be more supportive of each other. All it can do is make us BOTH more powerful. At the end of the day I can only see that as a good thing. And the more we mingle....probably the more gun friendly they will become. Just a hunch....I've already noticed a difference in some of the TEA Partiers who attended Lobby Day. We just have to stop turning our noses up at them. They are not accustomed to guns. They need to be edumacted like anyone else.

Click to expand...

Two particular Tea Party events come to mind that were packed with VCDL and OCDO people. The first great downtown Richmond event at the Plaza and the one at Chesterfield Fair Grounds.

I have not attended any Tea Party events at local restaurants because of the gun unfriendly locations selected. Whose fault is that - mine?

Believe me when I tell you that you will show up with out your pants before I will disarmed.

Now I have taken the first step in indicating my willingness to help.
Your turn - is my friend welcome or not?

Yata hey

Click to expand...

The fairgrounds are a good example GS. They didn't open any parking making it necessary to park at the school across the street.

But it wasn't impossible because I was there as well. It was OC friendly, there were people there carrying, there were places to park even if it wasn't spelled out. But again there were only a few open carriers there. If it were a VCDL event OCers would be creating new places to park in order to attend. But it wasn't a gun related event so the gun guys didn't have so much interest in supporting it. I saw a few guys there, myself and my friend included. More than I typically see perhaps but nothing that lends me to suspect that we are anymore supportive of their events than they are perhaps of ours.

Grapeshot · Mar 16, 2010

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richarcm wrote:

But it wasn't impossible because I was there as well. It was OC friendly, there were people there carrying, there were places to park even if it wasn't spelled out. But again there were only a few open carriers there. If it were a VCDL event OCers would be creating new places to park in order to attend. But it wasn't a gun related event so the gun guys didn't have so much interest in supporting it. I saw a few guys there, myself and my friend included. More than I typically see perhaps but nothing that lends me to suspect that we are anymore supportive of their events than they are perhaps of ours.

Just to set the record straight - the Chesterfield event was HEAVILY attended by VCDL and OCDO - my guesstimate would be around 40-45 +. People were coming and going all daylong OCing.

We had two canopies set up, a VCDL table and PVC spoke on stage before the crowd.

Yata hey

richarcm · Mar 16, 2010

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Grapeshot wrote:

richarcm wrote:

But it wasn't impossible because I was there as well. It was OC friendly, there were people there carrying, there were places to park even if it wasn't spelled out. But again there were only a few open carriers there. If it were a VCDL event OCers would be creating new places to park in order to attend. But it wasn't a gun related event so the gun guys didn't have so much interest in supporting it. I saw a few guys there, myself and my friend included. More than I typically see perhaps but nothing that lends me to suspect that we are anymore supportive of their events than they are perhaps of ours.

Click to expand...

Just to set the record straight - the Chesterfield event was HEAVILY attended by VCDL and OCDO - my guesstimate would be around 40-45 +. People were coming and going all daylong OCing.

We had two canopies set up, a VCDL table and PVC spoke on stage before the crowd.

Yata hey

Like I said...this event there were OCers there. Throughout the day there may have been 40-45 although at any one time there were no more than 5-10 spread out throughout the parking lot at once that I noticed. And I'm glad to see that VCDL participated. Events where they do not participate there are nowhere near 40-45 OCers present. I wish there were. It would be much easier to get the rest of the center/right movement onboard the gun rights issues. As you can see from this particular event as well as Lobby Day when we DO integrate we integrate nicely and those who aren't typically into guns start asking questions and get curious. But must VCDL have a presence before this can occur?

Grapeshot · Mar 16, 2010

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richarcm wrote:

But must VCDL have a presence before this can occur?

No but it doesn't hurt and at the least guns cannot be excluded. Unfortunately that reputation has been earned.

Yata hey

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