Open Carry in Dothan

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My name is James and I have been a life long, 26 year, resident of Dothan AL. I spent about 2.5 years in Baghdad as a fire fighter, also a fire fighter at home, and have always been around guns and enjoyed shooting and carrying.

After doing my research on OCDO and a few other sites I found to my amazement that I could legally open carry without any kind of special permit. I also called our local Sheriff in Houston County and asked a random officer about the topic. His reply, quoted to the best of my recollection, was "You may absolutely open carry as long as you abide by the laws" and went on to explain the rule of law set forth pertaining to certain restricted locations and people that are allowed to have firearms (e.g. non-felons ect).
He also stated "Just know though that it is not that common of a thing for the public to see so we might receive calls of a 'person with a gun' and will have to respond to investigate, possibly with our guns drawn as we would to any possible high risk situation and ask for proper ID to be produced to resolve the situation." I replied with "That sounds a little extreme but thanks for the information."

With all this new information my brother and his girlfriend and my girlfriend and myself decided after a hard days work to go into town. I was the only one open carrying last night and our first stop was Home Depot and only the cashier asked if I was an MP or maybe a LEO and I told her "No just exercising my right to open carry".
Next stop was TGIF for some good food. On the way in my brother informed me that there were about three sheriffs cars and a state trooper car in the parking lot and I replied with "Its okay because I know its my right". When were taken to be seated we walked right past their table and we only received a short double-take from one of the officers. Nothing was said and it was a very nice meal.
Lastly we went to Wal-Mart and it also was uneventful.

Its nice to know that we still have this right in our state and are able to exercise it freely without harassment, so far.

I plan on becoming a frequent open carrier and poster to the OCDO forum and or local Craigslist and hopefully can organize more like minded law abiding citizens to do the same.

Thanks for reading,
James

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Sounds awesome James! Glad you're joining us in exercising our rights and defending ourselves and those we love!

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Excellent first post James,

Welcome to the Open Carry Forum. You will find scores of good solid Americans here, like-minded individuals who appreciate our freedoms and standfirm in theirtheir actions to exercise those freedoms responsibly.

I have carried openly in Dothan for several years when in your city for shoping or dining, a necessity when living in a one horse town with only a Walmart for the necessities.

Welcome again and stay safe.

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Welcome James!

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James,

Glad to know that the great state of Alabama is cool with the Carry.

I was stationed at Rucker in the early to mid nineties and frequented Dothan. I am very fond of and miss that area. I live in California and planning on getting out as soon as possible. Anti-gun attitude here is abominable. Though we are still working on it. We can usually carry with relative safety in groups.Do they still hold the Peanut Festival? Well carry on and God bless

Defensor Fortis

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Maybe Cali will let up on that kind of think but i dont think they will. And yes they still do but they have moved it to a new location and it has gotten away from its roots.

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Been doing more open carry in Dothan and no problems. Had a lot of response on Craigslist and it is stirring up the subject around here so maybe more will get on board!

And thanks to all the warm welcomes and encouragement from the OCDO crowd!

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This is and email I received from a neighbor of mine that saw the post on Craigslist and whom has a long career in law enforcement, now retired.

"James,

I agree that you can open carry and have certain restricted rights to do so. However, you must look at collateral laws that also apply. For instance, under Section 13A-11-73 of the Code of Alabama, 1975 as amended; License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Required. It states, “No person shall carry a pistol IN ANY VEHICLE or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own abode or fixed place of business, without a license therefore as hereinafter provided.”

Under this statute, you may open carry if you wish to walk everywhere you go on “your” property. Note the word “concealed” and its lack of use as related to vehicles. You must have a permit to carry a weapon “concealed” on your person. The concealment requirement does not apply to vehicles. Therefore, once you enter a vehicle, you are required to have a permit if you possess a firearm therein, concealed or not.

I’m not sure what a “Houston County AG” is unless you are speaking of the District Attorney. I don’t doubt your veracity when you say you were told this. I would, however, doubt the validity of the person who conveyed this obviously erroneous information to you.
I refer back to State of Alabama Section 13A-11-52; Carrying pistol on premises not his own; who may carry pistol. It reads as follows: Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties. In the commentaries related to this section, the Court states; Word “carry,” as used in this section, means to bear such weapons, and does not necessarily import the idea of locomotion. See: Danal v. State, 14 Ala. App. 97, 71 So. 976 (Ala. App. 1916)

There are also sections related to areas where weapons may not be carried concealed or open such as public schools, etc.

Another applicable Section is 13A-11-74 as it relates to Section 13A-11-73; License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Exceptions. The provisions of Section 13A-11-73 shall not apply to marshals, sheriffs, prison and jail wardens and their regularly employed deputies, policemen and other law enforcement officers of any state or political subdivision thereof, or to the members of the army, navy or marine corps of the United States or of the national guard, or to the members of the national guard organized reserves or state guard organizations when on duty or going to or from duty, or to the regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state; provided, that such members are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practices, or to officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a pistol, or to any person engaged in manufacturing, repairing or dealing in pistols, or the agent or representative of such person possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of such business, or to any common carrier, except taxicabs, licensed as a common carrier, or to any person permitted by law to possess a pistol while carrying it unloaded in a secure wrapper, from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to or from a place of repair or in moving from one place of abode or business to another.

There is also an old saying that states, “Legal advice is as good as what you pay for it.”

I have seen practicing attorneys who have defended many concealed carry firearms cases. I have also had the opportunity to speak to many people who believe that the right to open carry applies anywhere. Because of my belief that a person has the inherent and Constitutional right to bear arms, I have never made a case on any law abiding citizen for carrying a weapon concealed or openly carried.

I have, however, seen many people who have been charged with such crimes. I have seen little success in the defense of any of these persons. Obviously, the laws I have related above show that there is quite a disparity in the “absolute” meaning of an individual law. You must also seek out “Court made law” which is most often used in cases where questions concerning a laws’ meaning is concerned. Therefore, it is prudent to follow up on case law which interprets the legislative intent and definition of the written law. This is ultimately what Law Enforcement Officers, Judges and Prosecutors rely on.

I personally spoke to District Judge #### ###### and Chief Assistant District Attorney #### ###### today and gave them the scenario you gave me. I did not give them your name. They stated adamantly, that anyone openly carrying a firearm on premises not his own would clearly be in violation of the law. They both agreed that the law was clear on this matter.

I asked them about walking down a public street or highway and they stated that although these areas are “public”, they are not owned by an individual taxpayer. They agreed that these areas are owned in Fee Simple by governmental entities and are not legally considered to be an individual’s property. They further agreed that they could not believe you were allowed to walk into a restaurant where law enforcement officers were present and the officers took no action on you open carrying a firearm.

Good luck with the open carry thing. I hope you don’t run into any rookies who are trying to make a name for themselves. They are the ones you have to worry most about. Although you have had some luck so far, I would not count on it to continue.

I firmly believe in the right to bear arms. I personally think it should be mandatory. I also think you are a good person and have good intentions. I wouldn’t want to see you get into any trouble because of your belief. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Call me at ###-###-#### or come by my office any time and I will be happy to show you more information on this issue. It is also a pet peeve of mine. I do not believe that a person should have to pay for a right that is guaranteed under the Constitution such as the requirement to purchase a permit to carry a firearm concealed or otherwise. I do believe however that discretion is the better part of valor.

Be safe.
###"


Please let me know what everyone think and has had experience with bc I am second guessing my decision to open carry.

Thanks,
James

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James, your neighbor is incorrect.

Open Carry is Legal everywhere in Alabama, less Private Property owners or occupants who specifically tell you that they do not want Firearms on their Proeprty. Failure to leave when asked in Trespassing, under Alabama Code 1975 13A-7-4(a). If Convicted, you face up to 30 days in Jail as a Violation, 13A-7-4(b).

13A-11-52 does begin with the phrase, '...Except as [otherwise] provided in this Article...'.

13A-11-73 is the complete revision of the subject matter concerning Open Carry in Alabama it being a complete revision of 13A-11-52.

Insofar as they conflict, 13A-11-73 prevails, it being a later revision of the subject matter of Carrying Pistols as provided under 13A-11-52. The Courts in Alabama have ruled it so, under KJ v. State of Alabama (690 So.2d. 541 Al. Cr.Apps. 1997).

Open Carry of a Pistol, on ones Hip, in the Open (such as in a Holster) is Legal, provided; the Person is not a Violent Felon, Drug Addict, or Habitual Drunkard, per Alabama Code 13A-11-72.

Alabama Law only prohibits Violent Felons from owning Pistols, but this seemingly does not apply to any other Firearm. However, Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(g) prohibits any Felon (whether Violent or not) or any Person having been Convicted of Domestic Violence from owning any Firearm at all.

This is why you should support Alabama Legislative Bills HB225 and SB236. These Bills say: If a Firearm is made in Alabama,and stays in Alabama, it has not moved in Interstate Commerce. It is only Intrastate Commerce. Therefore, Federal Laws do not applyto those Firearms at all.In essence, James, no more Federal Regulations on your Firearms, such as 'Gun-Free School Zones', Domestic Violence Bans, etc.

You may Open Carry in Schools K-12, with a Valid Pistol Permit, per Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-72(e). This is Legal per Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(b)(ii).

You may Open Carry on Public Property (i.e. Public Buildings, Public Parks, City Hall, etc.) without a Pistol Permit.

However, you may not Open Carry to or while at, or within 1000 feet of any Public Demonstration, as defined under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-59. You can thank the Civil Rights movement for that Law.

18 years old is the age to Open Carry, per Alabama Code 13A-11-76. Also, Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(x) allows Open Carry of Pistols by Persons 18 years of age or older.

All of this is Preempted under The Official Codes of Alabama 1975 11-45-1.1 (specifically for Handguns and Handgun Ammunition) and 11-80-11 (for all other Firearms, Ammunition, and Gun-Shows).

Alabama is a Stand-your-Ground and Castle State, per Alabama Code 1975 Self-Defense Laws 13A-3-23 through 13A-3-27.

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aadvark,

I agree 100% with your well written and researched post. You are absolutely correct in every statement of fact. I say fact and not opinion because there is no gray area in this law when you read it just as the legislature wrote it.

Enjoy your freedom as Alabamians, exercise those freedoms with the heart and soul of a Southern gentlman. Take no intimidation from any man.

"Fatti Maschi Parole Femine"= Manly deeds and Womanly words

Still working on the Womanly words part!!!

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Don't second guess yourself. We get that 13A-11-52 crap all the time. Google 'Alabama Open Carry Trifold' and read it well. Also, carry a voice recorder on your person while OC'ing.

One thing that is certain, is that a neverending avalanche of people, especially LEO's will tell you OC is illegal. At best, these people are well intentioned but misinformed. At worst... Well, just don't trust 'em.

You're doing good, man.

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Thanks so much for all the replies and advice as it has been read and greatly appreciated. Still open carrying and no flak yet. Talked to another Dothan PD today on the subject and he stated that from what he had read and studied in the Code it was fine to open carry and he personally would not have a problem with it.

Thanks,
James

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James, refer your emailer to the "This law seems to prohibit a lot of OC" thread. I started that thread from the point of view that the law clearly said that OC was generally illegal. Folks here helped me explore the law and the court rulings until I was convinced, beyond any doubt, that OC is generally legal.

I have a letter from the sheriff verifying the legality. I have not OCed yet because the police chief has not yet responded to my email. It's not that I want his blessing. I just want to know what MPD's policy is. I don't want to be caught unaware. If I OC and encounter a Montgomery police officer, I want to know what his starting point is going to be. After all, knowledge is power.

OC is generally legal. That doesn't mean that you won't have to make a conscious decision to risk an unfriendly encounter with a LEO.

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AirBear,

I appreciate your generous comment concerning my Articles.

I usually take several hours to well prepare my Articles before they are Posted, and I always read The Laws clearly before I make any Posts.

Although I am not an Attorney, nor have I any training at Law, I atleast understand well enough to understand what I read so as to interpret what I read to formulate a well versed opinion on the subject matter at hand.

My Articles, I believe, are consice and well written. They serve to be documentation based on former Court, Attorney General, and Legislative Decisions/Intent.

I strive and try to ensure that my Articles are not biased based on opinion, but rather are a factual account of the Law.

Thank you again,

aadvark

P.S.: I take very seriously the subject matter of Law and Firearms in virtually every Jurisdiciton and State in the United States. This is evidenced by a substansial number of Posts in nearly every forum in this Arena (OpenCarry.org-Forums). All of my Articles reflect this, and I have pratically remebered numerous other Laws from other States, many of which I can recite out loud with the precise Code Seciton Number (X-X-X, etc.), and know very well almost all Federal Firearms Laws (18 U.S.C. 921-931, etc.) as well.

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Bamafirefighter22 wrote:

Been doing more open carry in Dothan and no problems. Had a lot of response on Craigslist and it is stirring up the subject around here so maybe more will get on board!

And thanks to all the warm welcomes and encouragement from the OCDO crowd!

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Hey James and welcome. I was wondering where you guys are posting on Craigslist? I ran some searches in the Dothan forums and didn't turn up anything. Got a link you can post?

I OC in Dothan quite often. We should do lunch sometime.

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Original Post on Craigslist: http://dothan.craigslist.org/rnr/1645234962.html

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Please follow my newest post and comment back please: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum59/40886.html

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Do you have a permit for concealed carry in the state of Alabama?

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Do you have a permit for concealed carry in the state of Alabama?

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For about 5 years now.