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Thread: City of Rochester Hills illegal Ordinance

  1. #1
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    I live in Rochester Hills and found the ordinance that prohibits possession of firearms in the park. I just sent the following e-mail to Mayor Barnett. I will let you know what happens:

    "Dear Mayor Barnett,

    I would like to bring to your attention that the following ordinance is unlawful and unenforceable in respect to firearms possession in a park:

    Sec. 74-108. - Firearms and weapons.

    It shall be unlawful to bring in, have or use any firearm, air rifle, airgun, or any other weapon that discharges projectiles by any means in a park. However, this section shall not apply to any authorized peace officer while carrying out the duties of his position.


    Possessing a firearm in a park is legal under Michigan Law. MCL 123.1102 preempts local regulation of this kind. MCL 28.425c does not return to local units of government the authority to regulate in this area. Please contact your legal department as soon as possible to review this illegal ordinance. It is important that public is not misled in this important area. Anybody reading this ordinance and seeing a citizen legally possessing a firearm in the park might call the Sheriff department. In turn, law enforcement officer might initiate a wrongful arrest if he/she does not know that this ordinance is unenforceable. City liability in this situation will be hard to avoid. Moreover, knowingly keeping an illegal ordinance on the books might be considered as an act of malfeasance.

    Please let me know what is the City position on this issue. Please let me know when can the vote be scheduled by the City Council in order to repeal this ordinance."

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    If you do not get a swift response, I would like to attend the next city council meeting(with you if you're free) to push this issue into the public light and onto public record. This worked in Macomb Twp....6 months of inaction, then 1 visit from us at MOC at a Twp. board meeting and the ordinances were changed at the NEXT meeting.

  3. #3
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    Sure. Lets see how quickly they respond to my e-mail. Some localities react quickly, some trying to drag like Macomb Twp.

  4. #4
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    What is normally the process to get on the list to speak at City Council meetings?

  5. #5
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    Just show up and wait for the council to hear public comments. Eastpointe gives each attendant 5 minutes before the meeting then 5 more after(very generous). Macomb Twp. gave us 3 minutes, so it varies by city.

  6. #6
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    I sent a similar letter to Mayor Barnett and cc'd the city council about a year ago. I got no response.

    I never followed up... my bad.

  7. #7
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    Was it in form of e-mail? Could you find and post it here? Wecan use it at the Council meeting to show that citizens request was ignored

    atlantis wrote:
    I sent a similar letter to Mayor Barnett and cc'd the city council about a year ago. I got no response.

    I never followed up... my bad.

  8. #8
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    Here you go... sent on 3/13/09


    Dear Mayor Barnett:

    I am a resident of Rochester Hills. Looking thought our city ordinances I discovered this one:

    “Sec. 74-108. Firearms and weapons. It shall be unlawful to bring in, have or use any firearm, air rifle, airgun, or any other weapon that discharges projectiles by any means in a park. However, this section shall not apply to any authorized peace officer while carrying out the duties of his position.
    (Code 1976, § 7-10.08.13)”

    Under the 1990 state preemption law (included below in Section A) this ordinance is unenforceable in regards to firearm possession and is misleading to the people of Rochester Hills and other citizens. I realize that the offending ordinance was written in 1976 and may have been legal at that time. However, I am requesting you amend this offending ordinance within 90 days. Now that you have been informed of this issue failure to amend this ordinance could be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city of Rochester Hills.

    Also interesting is the evidence found in the ordinances that the City of Rochester Hills is fully aware of this State Preemption of firearms law. This excerpt was found. Note this is a fully legal ordinance and I have no problem with it: (the emphasis in red is mine)
    “DIVISION 3. WEAPONS*

    __________
    *State law references: Licenses required to sell, purchase, possess and carry certain firearms, MCL 28.421 et seq., MSA 28.91 et seq.; local units of government prohibited from imposing certain restrictions on pistols or firearms, MCL 123.1101 et seq., MSA 5.3415(1) et seq.; crimes relating to explosives and bombs, MCL 750.200 et seq., MSA 28.397 et seq.; crimes involving firearms and weapons, MCL 750.222 et seq., MSA 28.419 et seq.

    __________

    Sec. 70-201. Discharge of firearms….”



    I would appreciate a response to this issue.

    Thank You,


    CC: City Council

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    Lets attend nextCity Council meeting to officially put them on notice. It ison Monday, March 22, 7 p.m. at City Hall Auditorium located at 1000 Rochester Hills Dr., Rochester Hills, MI 48309.

    I spoke to City Council coordinator. She said that public comments are at the beginning, prior to 7p.m. So, I think we should show up in advance. I suggest 6:15. I presume we will OC, correct? Who else is interestedto attend?

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    I'll be there. I will OC. If you feel comfortable doing so, then by all means OC also. If I were you I'd call the coordinator back, if the meeting starts at 7:00, public comments shouldn't be before that. See if you can get clarification. Thanks.

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    Yes, I talked to here. Meeting starts at 7 p.m. and public comments are before that. That is why I suggested to come around 6:15 just to make sure. We never know how many people want to speak, so comimg earlier is better. They allow 3 minutes for every speaker, so we need to be to the point. If anyone else will be attending, please post here. This way we know how many is coming.

    We certainly are not required to provide any notice. However, would itbe a good idea to provide an advance notice to City Council coordinator since this is probably first time they will see a civilian OC in the city hall?

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    sasha601 wrote:
    Yes, I talked to here. Meeting starts at 7 p.m. and public comments are before that. That is why I suggested to come around 6:15 just to make sure. We never know how many people want to speak, so comimg earlier is better. They allow 3 minutes for every speaker, so we need to be to the point. If anyone else will be attending, please post here. This way we know how many is coming.

    We certainly are not required to provide any notice. However, would it*be a good idea to provide an advance notice to City Council coordinator since this is probably first time they will see a civilian OC in the city hall?
    Would a midget have to call ahead and give the council notice just because they may not have seen one at city hall before? Nope.

  13. #13
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    sasha601 wrote:
    Lets attend next*City Council meeting to officially put them on notice. It is*on Monday, March 22, 7 p.m. at City Hall Auditorium located at 1000 Rochester Hills Dr., Rochester Hills, MI 48309.

    I spoke to City Council coordinator. She said that public comments are at the beginning, prior to 7p.m. So, I think we should show up in advance. I suggest 6:15. I presume we will OC, correct? Who else is interested*to attend?*
    I'm not sure who you called, Leanne Scott(Phone: (248) 841-2460) is the coordinator and is on vacation all this week, coming back the 22nd. Either way, public comments are after the meeting starts at 7:00....so roughly 7:10-7-15. If you look at the published minutes of their past meetings it will show you. They have to have the comments after the meeting officially starts so they can be included in the minutes, and be part of the public record. There is no reason to be there super early. 6:50 is fine.

  14. #14
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    Yes, I did talk to Leanne Scott assistant. The way she explained it to me is that public comments that are in respect to meeting agenda items are heared after the meeting. Comments that do not relate to agenda are heared immediately before the meeting. Should we clarify to make sure our comments are part of the public record?

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    Ok, I just got it clarified. Public comments that are not related to items on the Agenda are made right at the beginning of the meeting. Since we will not be on the Agenda,7p.m. is when we should be ready to speak.I will arrive about 15-20 minutes early in order to have time to put my name on the list and to have time to deal with any sheriff or city officialif approached by one because of OC.

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    Im from pontiac and i open carry here and was told today by someone a street over i cant open carry and not to come down his street he also came off of his porch and tried to charge at me but was stopped by another neighbor.But i can be available to go with you.

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    army74 wrote:
    Im from pontiac and i open carry here and was told today by someone a street over i cant open carry and not to come down his street he also came off of his porch and tried to charge at me but was stopped by another neighbor.But i can be available to go with you.
    Sounds like attempted assault, to me. At the very least a call to your local PD to bring them up to speed on your loose canon neighbor may be in order. See ya in Rochester.

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    sasha601 wrote:
    Lets attend nextCity Council meeting to officially put them on notice. It ison Monday, March 22, 7 p.m. at City Hall Auditorium located at 1000 Rochester Hills Dr., Rochester Hills, MI 48309.

    I spoke to City Council coordinator. She said that public comments are at the beginning, prior to 7p.m. So, I think we should show up in advance. I suggest 6:15. I presume we will OC, correct? Who else is interestedto attend?
    I live 2 miles from City Hall, I could meet yall there as well.
    -NRA Member, GSSF Member, GeorgiaCarry Member, Glock Certified Armorer, Glock 30SF, STI Elektra, M&P9c, NAA Black Widow .22 WMR
    -I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.Mahatma Ghandhi

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    Great. I will be there around6:40 - 6:45

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    Myself and scot623 spoke at Rochester City Council meeting and put city on notice that ordinance prohibiting firearms possession must be repealed. Here is the link to tonight's council meeting. Mine and scot623 speeches are at the very beginning: http://ww3.rochesterhills.org/03222010ccm.htm

    I will keep an eye on the progress. If nothing happens I will attend council meeting again in 30 days

  21. #21
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    Great job guys!

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    Very well organized speech. I hope that they actually deal with it this time. That council chair had a look on his face like thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my night but hopefully they will actually acknowledge this and handle it in a timely matter. I have no problem having picnics and/or marches in Rochester Hills parks if they don't rectify the situation though.

  23. #23
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    I found it interesting that when the President of the Council responded to you (about 20 minutes into the video) he said that they are already well aware that their ordinance needs to be revised and is not in compliance with State law.. but said something to the effect that changing it is not a priority for them, and they'll get to it some time in the future.

    Nice of him to admit that.... It would be great video to play for the court when they get sued by someone who is detained due to that ordinance anyway...

  24. #24
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    My favorite part by far is that ******* saying "allowing guns in the parks is a no win situation". Um...actually no, all the law abiding citizens who carry firearms would be winning.

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    scot623 wrote:
    My favorite part by far is that ******* saying "allowing guns in the parks is a no win situation". Um...actually no, all the law abiding citizens who carry firearms would be winning.
    What a ******. It is such a shame what that city has turned into. I am up for a picnic or event in Mr. Hoopers neighborhood.

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