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Thread: Sub forums here or a new forum, something needs to give

  1. #1
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I have felt for a very long time that it would be a mistake to branch off and do our own forum. This website is the nerve center of open carrying, and splitting off from it would do no good.

    However, I've been realizing more and more lately that the Michigan section is a complete mess, and needs to be fixed, one way or another. I still feel my idea of 3 sub forums, and a few people with only an ability to move threads within them, would be the best idea.

    But if Mike and JPierce are unwilling to allow that, I am starting to believe MOC should make its own forum. Hopefully if it comes to this, there could be a sticky here and a prominent link there to link one site to the other.

    If we had our own forum, or more substantial control here over trolls and other idiots, as well as the ability to clean things up when they need it, we could have a much more pleasant, friendly and useful way of communicating with each other. It doesn't reflect well on us that our primary means of communication is a cluster ****.

    This thread is nothing more or less than a petition to both JPierce and Mike, as well as MOC. If you believe that Michigan OCers would benefit from having several sub forums here with a few people who can move threads, please say so. If you also believe that the next best thing is for MOC start its own forum, please say that too.

    By the way, this is not intended as a place to argue this issue, it is only a petition to be signed off on if you agree. All I ask is that if you agree with me, please say so. If you don't agree with me, please feel free to bump this thread to argue it out- http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/40028.html

    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    There will be an MOC forum but it will take a little time. I anticipate it being up in 2 months to be realistic. We are working on several other priorities at the moment.



  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I appreciate the information, but all I'm trying to do is gauge support for the idea, as well as trying to gauge support for cleaning up this forum some without giving anyone full blown moderator abilities.

    MOC's official position on it isn't the point, the point is what the people want.

    Although I suppose the fact that MOC agrees is a good thing.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  4. #4
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I agree, we need Sub-forums and have for some time. I support such a petition to John and Mike since we have so much activity here in MI.

    In addition, it would be very good to have a few people able to Moderate the MI Forum (and Sub-forums). As the Open Carry movement continues to grow, it is impossible for 1-2 people to continue the role of Moderator by themselves. There are many "conversations" that have occurred over the past few months that do not lend themselves to forwarding the OC Movement.

    As to moving to another website, I am not sure I support that. Any movement to create a new website can be established quickly, but the confusion and organization issues that it may cause could have lasting effects (Law of Unintended Consequences). I work in the IT Industry with dynamic business customers who want to "move fast" and host new sites/systems very quickly. The result: Information Sprawl and confused "users" as to where to go for the best information.

    The good point out of all this: OC in MI is becoming more and more accepted every day, to the point where we have the time and resources to look at issues other than LEO Interactions gone bad!
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    My $.02:

    Ideal situation:Appoint someone (or someones) limited mod ability, and add a couple sub-forums to this one. You are right, this forum is quite literally the nerve center of the movement, and utilizing another forum would serve to divide the group, like it or not.

    That being said, If Mike and John are not willing, the only other reasonable option would be another forum altogether, which is apparently being worked on. My understanding is that it will be geared solely toward paid members, though. While this would work for M.O.C. Inc., many folks here are drones, not recognized as full fledged members, but hugely involved in the movement. I personally am a member of 7 or 8 gun rights forums, but this one is the one I use almost exclusively. I'm a creature of habit, and another forum would just muddy the water for me.

    My vote is for additional sub-forums, and appointed mods.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    BTW, Michigander. Congrats on 3K+ posts!:celebrate
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    I would prefer subforums on this website if possible... but if not we need something else...

    I don't like segregating the effort, but we need to have some more organization and maybe a small ounce of control [but not much]

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    My $.02:

    Ideal situation:Appoint someone (or someones) limited mod ability, and add a couple sub-forums to this one. You are right, this forum is quite literally the nerve center of the movement, and utilizing another forum would serve to divide the group, like it or not.

    That being said, If Mike and John are not willing, the only other reasonable option would be another forum altogether, which is apparently being worked on. My understanding is that it will be geared solely toward paid members, though. While this would work for M.O.C. Inc., many folks here are drones, not recognized as full fledged members, but hugely involved in the movement. I personally am a member of 7 or 8 gun rights forums, but this one is the one I use almost exclusively. I'm a creature of habit, and another forum would just muddy the water for me.

    My vote is for additional sub-forums, and appointed mods.
    I want to be the moderator.

  9. #9
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    My only issue with sticking here is the lack of control. Even if Mike and JP appoint someone, one person won't be enough, if that person disappears or goes rouge or w/e of 1000 possibilities that could arise, it'll become a PITA for us and them.

    For that reason, I support a separate site, I do realize that by fracturing or splitting off, we may lose some and nobody really wants that, but hell, I've got three to four open gun forums on my desktop at all times :? Adding another wouldn't be a big deal. The only problem that we'd have then, is the stupid stuff that wouldn't fly over at the "new" forums would find it's way here and the back and forth would be nauseating. I know John said two months and that's really not a long way off, but it sure feels like it and it seems kinda silly, if that's our long term goal, to change too much over here. Couldn't hurt, but if the majority of us are spending the majority of our time on the MOC forum, all the reasons above are that much more legit.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Bump

    I'd appreciate more input.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Self Moderation?
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  13. #13
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    Blah Blah Blah....

  14. #14
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    I want to be the moderator.
    Pete: Wait a minute. Who elected you leader of this outfit?

    Ulysses: Well Pete, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought. But if that ain't the consensus view, then hell, let's put it to a vote.

    Pete: Suits me. I'm voting for yours truly.

    Ulysses: Well I'm voting for yours truly too.

    Delmar: Okay... I'm with you fellas.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Something needs to be done, it's embarrassing whats going on in the michigan forum.



    Personally I think a separate forum would be best, but if not it seems AT LEAST a fewsub-forums should be created.

    Forgive my ignorance on the issue, but is it hard for ocdo to give us a few subs?

    Does it take a long time to create one?

    Considering how active the MI section is why haven't they done this already?

    Is this something they refuse to do?
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    I want to be the moderator.
    Pete: Wait a minute. Who elected you leader of this outfit?

    Ulysses: Well Pete, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought. But if that ain't the consensus view, then hell, let's put it to a vote.

    Pete: Suits me. I'm voting for yours truly.

    Ulysses: Well I'm voting for yours truly too.

    Delmar: Okay... I'm with you fellas.
    Recount.

    Hanging chads.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    detroit_fan wrote:
    Something needs to be done, it's embarrassing whats going on in the michigan forum.



    Personally I think a separate forum would be best, but if not it seems AT LEAST a fewsub-forums should be created.

    Forgive my ignorance on the issue, but is it hard for ocdo to give us a few subs?

    Does it take a long time to create one?

    Considering how active the MI section is why haven't they done this already?

    Is this something they refuse to do?
    IIRC, John and Mike tried appointing others as mods, and it didn't work out well for them. I suspect they are apprehensive about trying it again, and since they are the only two folks moderating the entire forum, they have their hands full. Adding sub-forums and moderating those adds work, and they already do this as a labor of love.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  18. #18
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    detroit_fan wrote:
    Something needs to be done, it's embarrassing whats going on in the michigan forum.



    Personally I think a separate forum would be best, but if not it seems AT LEAST a fewsub-forums should be created.

    Forgive my ignorance on the issue, but is it hard for ocdo to give us a few subs?

    Does it take a long time to create one?

    Considering how active the MI section is why haven't they done this already?

    Is this something they refuse to do?
    IIRC, John and Mike tried appointing others as mods, and it didn't work out well for them. I suspect they are apprehensive about trying it again, and since they are the only two folks moderating the entire forum, they have their hands full. Adding sub-forums and moderating those adds work, and they already do this as a labor of love.
    I see, I didn't know there were only 2 mods on the whole site, ouch. Now that I know that, I personally think a separtate forum for MOC is the only choice, because it needs more moderation than this site will be able to provide.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

  19. #19
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    detroit_fan wrote:
    Something needs to be done, it's embarrassing whats going on in the michigan forum.



    Personally I think a separate forum would be best, but if not it seems AT LEAST a fewsub-forums should be created.

    Forgive my ignorance on the issue, but is it hard for ocdo to give us a few subs?

    Does it take a long time to create one?

    Considering how active the MI section is why haven't they done this already?

    Is this something they refuse to do?
    IIRC, John and Mike tried appointing others as mods, and it didn't work out well for them. I suspect they are apprehensive about trying it again, and since they are the only two folks moderating the entire forum, they have their hands full. Adding sub-forums and moderating those adds work, and they already do this as a labor of love.
    Did they put it to a vote before the "Bloody Friday"?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Did they put it to a vote before the "Bloody Friday"?
    Are you suggesting that the debacle concerning a controversial meet and eat might be enough to change their minds on the matter?


    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    personally,id like to see sub forums over an MOC forum for now.

    andadditional forum mods.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  22. #22
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    This forum is already moderated.

    Several threads have been deleted in the last 2 days for being off topic.

    How much moderation do you want?

    Or are you seeking censorship under the guise of "moderation"?

    How many sub threads should there be besides the one that discusses open carry?

    What would be the subject of the sub-threads?
    Open carry 2?
    Open carry 3?
    Open carry 4?

  23. #23
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    events would be a great sub forum.

    then have the regular one.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  24. #24
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    My lean would toward MOC having their own forum.

    There is always so much confusion between MOC and OCDO being linked together or somehow affiliated with each other. One of the reasons for that is that we have official announcements from MOC leadership being posted here on OCDO...it's no wonder people think they are linked.

    MOC needs it's own place and ALL MOC business should remain onits ownwebsite.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  25. #25
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    Bronson wrote:
    My lean would toward MOC having their own forum.

    There is always so much confusion between MOC and OCDO being linked together or somehow affiliated with each other. One of the reasons for that is that we have official announcements from MOC leadership being posted here on OCDO...it's no wonder people think they are linked.

    MOC needs it's own place and ALL MOC business should remain onits ownwebsite.

    Bronson
    No need to lean.

    As posted in several threads here and in the email to the membership form GeneralDet, a separate MOC website is currently being developed by viperar15.

    This will be a great leap forward for MOC.

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