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Thread: what to tell or not to tell police

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    not sure if this has been covered, if so maybe we can organize in one post. I was thinking of putting together a generalized situational guide. heres the format (rough brainstorm)

    situation: traffic stop
    What to tell/show the police: yada yada yada

    situation: stopped while walking (with or without a gun) in general
    what to tell/show (forms of id or anything)

    and so on.....

    all the way up until having to put down an intruder. obvioulsy you have to call them to say what happened, but how far do you go in certain situations.

    what do yall think?

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    I'm surprised that this hasn't gotten more responses. This is a worthy question and something I've been wondering myself.

    GoDSpeeD

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    I think the consensus is going to be "as little as necessary" on all accounts, ESPECIALLY having to put down an intruder.

    As has been stated before when I posed the question of whether declaring that you have a weapon during a traffic stop could be construed as admission that it was concealed and/or dangerous "anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you".

    Perhaps what you're really asking is what information is REQUIRED to be divulged in each situation? That would seem useful as it would help guarantee you only give the bare minimum.

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    Maybe your right. Requirements are probably best to know. I would love to hear some info on that.

    GoDSpeeD

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    While this topic is here (sorry if this question has come up before) if a traffic cop in LV or NLV asks if I have any weapons, am I under any obligation to answer that?
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
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    If asked I believe you have to tell them. But when I'm driving I usually have it wedged between my seats, plainly able to see it. So I might point it out to them just so I don't get there muzzle shoved in my face.
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    flagellum wrote:
    While this topic is here (sorry if this question has come up before) if a traffic cop in LV or NLV asks if I have any weapons, am I under any obligation to answer that?
    You are not required to answer any questions, though it is advisable to not lie. You can refuse to answer, but should you choose to answer, it's best to answer truthfully.

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    Sabotage70 wrote:
    If asked I believe you have to tell them. But when I'm driving I usually have it wedged between my seats, plainly able to see it. So I might point it out to them just so I don't get there muzzle shoved in my face.
    I brought this up in a different thread (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/37437.html ). Here is the scenario that played out in my head:

    Ok, here's a random thought I just had, as an addendum to my previous questions which have been well answered (thanks everyone for that).

    IF you choose to declare that you have a weapon when you are Open Carrying, could that declaration be used against you in court if you were to be charged with unlawful concealment?

    For example:
    You're pulled over. The officer steps up to your vehicle, and with your hands clearly on the wheel it goes something like this:
    YOU: "Officer, For our safety I'd like to inform you that I am armed."
    LEO: "Where is the weapon?"
    YOU: (insert any legal open carry location)
    Now, the officer for whatever reason, chooses to charge you with concealment.

    Being an upstanding citizen who has done no wrong, you go to court to object to these charges and give your case. You are questioned:
    DA: "Upon being approached by the officer, did you say anything to them?"
    YOU: "Yes"
    DA: "What did you say?"
    YOU: "I informed the officer that I was armed."
    DA: "Why did you do so?"
    YOU: "For our safety. So there would be no surprises."
    DA: "Was the weapon concealed?"
    YOU: "No"
    DA: "If the weapon was not concealed, there would be no surprises and there would be no reason to inform the officer. Obviously you too felt the weapon was concealed"

    Or something along that train of thought. Basically, can informing the officer be used as an admission of concealment?

    Discuss
    I can easily see that scenario possibly playing out giving the correct circumstances. Tim was the one who responded to that with "anything you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you". He's probably right. Though, every situation is different, and I think you probably need to feel out each on a case by case basis. That said, I'd probably tell them as my wallet (with my drivers license) is kept strong side and wouldn't want to get shot for him realizing I had a gun at the same moment I was reaching for my wallet.

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    The legal definition of "concealed" in this state, for the purpose of the felony crime of concealing without a permit, is in NRS 202.350:
    8. As used in this section:
    (a) “Concealed weapon” means a weapon described in this section that is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.


    So in your conversation with the DA, you could say something like "It was in the glove box so the cop couldn't see it, but it wasn't concealed as defined in NRS 202.350."


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    ok lets rephrase this so everyone doesnt get side tracked on vehicular topics and concealment.

    lets put together a "bare minimum" response sheet......not just for vehicles but lets try to cover any situation from petty stop while walking....all the way up to ending a scums life or having to draw out and explain after cops arrive...if they do.

    as stated almost everytime an officer pulls you over for speeding or tags or taillights or whatever...he will ask if you have weapons.....so lets here it. whats the least you HAVE to say in certain situations.

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    Well, Tim will most certainly be the expert here... but I'm pretty sure it's the following:

    If driving, you're required to submit a drivers license, proof of insurance and registration. Providing you gave the drivers license, you've already identified yourself, if not, you must give your first and last name. Beyond that, bare minimum is "I am invoking my right to an attorney". It is probably good measure however, to add "I will not answer any questions without my attorney present. I do not consent to any searches. I do not waive any of my rights." Also common is "Am I being detained or am I free to go?".

    If your not driving, you need not give any information other than first and last name, and from there continue with your rights...

    Same goes for even the most extreme cases including killing somebody. Nothing you can say will help you. You ARE going to go to jail that night, don't be tricked into thinking the cop is trying to "help you out" and if you comply you can go home and go to bed. It's not his call to make at that point. His job is to build a case and gather evidence. The ONLY thing you can to by talking, is provide evidence, a lawyer will help insure that you only provide the evidence that is relevant to you going free.

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    VegasGlocKid wrote:
    not sure if this has been covered, if so maybe we can organize in one post. I was thinking of putting together a generalized situational guide. heres the format (rough brainstorm)

    situation: traffic stop
    What to tell/show the police: yada yada yada

    situation: stopped while walking (with or without a gun) in general
    what to tell/show (forms of id or anything)

    and so on.....

    all the way up until having to put down an intruder. obvioulsy you have to call them to say what happened, but how far do you go in certain situations.

    what do yall think?
    I think you should watch this vid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Bare minimum? Could be name, could be driver's license/registration/insurance, could be, "Leave me alone."

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    GMIjack nailed it. Don't lie, its a crime. Nothin like being innocent of the traffic stop but guilty of obstruction to ruin your day. Even if you dont think you're lieing...1 word mis-recalled later....they'll call it a lie/obstruction. However if you simply don't talk at all, you can't get accused of that =)

    Name only required by law. Rest they ask for (DOB, place of birth, social security, etc you don't have to give).

    Legally without probable cause or a warrant, they can only detain you for 1 hour. Like a traffic stop. I'm on my way to work so can't cite right now, sorry. It's all in the terry v ohio and subsequent state laws that mirror it.

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    gmijackso wrote:
    Well, Tim will most certainly be the expert here... but I'm pretty sure it's the following:

    If driving, you're required to submit a drivers license, proof of insurance and registration. Providing you gave the drivers license, you've already identified yourself, if not, you must give your first and last name. Beyond that, bare minimum is "I am invoking my right to an attorney". It is probably good measure however, to add "I will not answer any questions without my attorney present. I do not consent to any searches. I do not waive any of my rights." Also common is "Am I being detained or am I free to go?".

    If your not driving, you need not give any information other than first and last name, and from there continue with your rights...

    Same goes for even the most extreme cases including killing somebody. Nothing you can say will help you. You ARE going to go to jail that night, don't be tricked into thinking the cop is trying to "help you out" and if you comply you can go home and go to bed. It's not his call to make at that point. His job is to build a case and gather evidence. The ONLY thing you can to by talking, is provide evidence, a lawyer will help insure that you only provide the evidence that is relevant to you going free.
    As i have mentioned before , I ride a MC and do get a lot of extra attention...I try to follow the traffic laws but if i am pulled over for any reason I hand them a card along with my DL...it reads" " My name is: Don Spencer
    I am a law abiding American Citizen.
    I DO NOT consent to any search of my person or property.
    If I am being detained for any reason, I stand on the 5th amendment.
    I Request my attorney be present before answering any questions.
    May I please be on my way."


    It works for me....the leo's don't like it ....They usually try to get me to talk to them and they keep me as long as they can, but always end up letting me go on my way.


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    Another good video, just came out a few days ago... Some dude in NM showing how to stand your ground.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/standing...st-police.html

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    yea i watched that fast talking attorney about not talking. I can just picture like a comedy flick where you have a wallet full of cards like doninvegas does..."lets see today i got stopped let me fine my "got stopped card"

    but yea i guess it all depends on the situation. as goes for shooting someone that you feel you or another person was in danger. obviously you probably have to call the police and state that YOU shot someone right?

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    I have to get me a cool camera....lol

    And by the way...I only have one of those cards in my wallet...

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    Lostlittlerobot wrote:
    However if you simply don't talk at all, you can't get accused of that =)
    I wish. After remaining silent during a suspicionless detention by Sparks police, the supervisor told me, "I should arrest you for obstruction."

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    Yard Sale wrote:
    Lostlittlerobot wrote:
    However if you simply don't talk at all, you can't get accused of that =)
    I wish. After remaining silent during a suspicionless detention by Sparks police, the supervisor told me, "I should arrest you for obstruction."
    So did he arrest you or let you go???????
    I would just calmly ask him if he was going to detain me,if so may i then call my attorney....

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    I was also threatened with arrest for obstruction for failing to provide my ID.

    The law (NRS 171.123) states:

    The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

    That of course left open the question of what identifying yourself means. Do I show ID? Do I provide my DOB, SSN, address? What is necessary to identify me?

    The Nevada Supreme Court decided this in 2002 during the Hiibel case. The Hiibel case was later sent to the US Supreme Court, which cited the NV Supreme Court decision. That NV Supreme Court decision states the following in regard to NRS 171.123.

    The suspect is not required to provide private details about his background, but merely to state his name to an officer when reasonable suspicion exists.

    NRS
    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Nrs/NRS-1...l#NRS171Sec123

    NV Supreme Court decision
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...88&invol=2

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    These what to say and not to say are great. Thats one reason why I wanted to show up with tim at Boulevard Mall... I need a pro to show me the ropes.

    GoDSpeeD

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    thats my main reason for popping up at the strip with yall. wanted to see how tim handled things if we did get approached....

    but people have to nap i guess

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    doninvegas wrote:
    Yard Sale wrote:
    Lostlittlerobot wrote:
    However if you simply don't talk at all, you can't get accused of that =)
    I wish. After remaining silent during a suspicionless detention by Sparks police, the supervisor told me, "I should arrest you for obstruction."
    So did he arrest you or let you go???????
    I would just calmly ask him if he was going to detain me,if so may i then call my attorney....
    Not arrested. Eventually told to leave and never come back. (I lived in the neighborhood.) I'm pretty sure he said, "I should arrest you for obstruction" after he told me to "Get the hell out of here" and never come back, but I'll have to check my notes. No need to ask because I already knew I was being detained.

    Must be nice to have an attorney. I wish I could afford one to take this goon and his henchmento the cleaners.

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    Yard Sale wrote:
    doninvegas wrote:
    Yard Sale wrote:
    Lostlittlerobot wrote:
    However if you simply don't talk at all, you can't get accused of that =)
    I wish. After remaining silent during a suspicionless detention by Sparks police, the supervisor told me, "I should arrest you for obstruction."
    So did he arrest you or let you go???????
    I would just calmly ask him if he was going to detain me,if so may i then call my attorney....
    Not arrested. Eventually told to leave and never come back. (I lived in the neighborhood.) I'm pretty sure he said, "I should arrest you for obstruction" after he told me to "Get the hell out of here" and never come back, but I'll have to check my notes. No need to ask because I already knew I was being detained.

    Must be nice to have an attorney. I wish I could afford one to take this goon and his henchmento the cleaners.
    "But, Officer, I'm not obstructing you. As a matter of fact I'll step over here out of your way. Heck, I'll even go home, right now, so you can do your job without obstruction. The law requires that I do not obstruct, it does Not require that I cooperate; there's a difference. "

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