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Thread: State's police chiefs seek veto of guns-in-bars bill

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    Regular Member OakRidgeStars's Avatar
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    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/stat...unsinbars-bill

    VIRGINIA BEACH - Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.
    Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.
    "We can fully expect that at some point in the future a disagreement that today would likely end up in a verbal confrontation, or a bar fight, will inevitably end with gunfire if you sign this legislation into law," Jacocks wrote.
    SB334's requirement that anybody with a gun is prohibited from drinking and could be charged with a misdemeanor is "absurd," Jacocks said, and can't be enforced.
    On Tuesday, Jacocks got support from Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms, a McDonnell supporter and gun owner.
    "Not only is it stupid," Sessoms said, "I think it could be a fatal mistake."
    But their efforts seem unlikely to sway McDonnell.
    McDonnell will sign the bill, said Taylor Thornley, the governor's spokeswoman. While McDonnell appreciates the work and comments of the police chiefs, he will "continue to protect and uphold the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens," Thornley said.
    The bill deals only with concealed weapons; in Virginia it's legal to carry a gun openly without a permit.
    SB334 and its House counterpart, along with legislation that allows gun owners without concealed-carry permits to store firearms in locked vehicle compartments, were among the gun-friendly bills approved by the General Assembly this year. The Democratic-controlled Senate formed a special subcommittee late in the session to kill several gun-rights bills, including a repeal of the state's one-handgun-purchase-a-month limit.
    The police chiefs association has opposed the guns in bars bill in the past, but it also had a more sympathetic ear. Former Democratic Gov. Timothy M. Kaine twice vetoed such bills.
    The Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police didn't come out strongly against the bills during the session because it was spread too thin trying to preserve state funding for police departments, said Dana Schrad, the organization's executive director.
    "We didn't duck and cover on this one," Schrad said. "We had to prioritize on budget issues."
    The Virginia Sheriffs' Association, the other large law-enforcement lobby in the General Assembly, did not take a stand on the legislation, said John Jones, the organization's executive director.
    "No, we're not going down that road," Jones said.
    But association members recently did vote on a resolution supporting Second Amendment rights, Jones said.
    Jacocks and Schrad did acknowledge that the letter was a last-ditch effort.
    "It was important to let him know directly how we felt about this issue," Jacocks said.
    If police across Virginia see an increase in gun violence at bars, the association will come back and ask the General Assembly to reconsider its decision, Schrad said.
    Statistics on gun-related incidents at establishments with liquor licenses were not available Tuesday.




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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    SB334's requirement that anybody with a gun is prohibited from drinking and could be charged with a misdemeanor is "absurd," Jacocks said, and can't be enforced.
    I love this quote, and I've heard from many other places. By that logic, the current law banning concealed carry in restaurants can't be enforced. But what was I thinking, logic does not compute with the brains of anti-gunners.

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    vt357 wrote:
    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    SB334's requirement that anybody with a gun is prohibited from drinking and could be charged with a misdemeanor is "absurd," Jacocks said, and can't be enforced.
    I love this quote, and I've heard from many other places. By that logic, the current law banning concealed carry in restaurants can't be enforced. But what was I thinking, logic does not compute with the brains of anti-gunners.
    I know, I find that so funny. What stops someone without a chp from carrying concealed into a bar and even drinking?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Someone made this point the other day... and it sinks in and raises a really good question...

    Why are our police officers allowed to lobby the legislative process in their official capacity as servants of the public?

    If you're a federal employee, this will get you in hot water! Why is it different at the state level?

    Police departments enforce the law. They do not get to write the law. That should be left to the people.

    Has there ever been an effort to bring this restriction to Virginia?

    TFred


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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Someone made this point the other day... and it sinks in and raises a really good question...

    Why are our police officers allowed to lobby the legislative process in their official capacity as servants of the public?

    If you're a federal employee, this will get you in hot water! Why is it different at the state level?

    Police departments enforce the law. They do not get to write the law. That should be left to the people.

    Has there ever been an effort to bring this restriction to Virginia?

    TFred
    That's an interesting idea TFred. I'd bet the State Police Chief is NOT a registered lobbyist and is not able to represent his group.
    But he does!

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    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    So when do we expect the Governor to sign the restaurant bill and end all this nonsense?

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    NEED TO HIT THE POLL HARD WE ARE ONLY AHEAD BY 30%

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    vt357 wrote:
    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    SB334's requirement that anybody with a gun is prohibited from drinking and could be charged with a misdemeanor is "absurd," Jacocks said, and can't be enforced.
    I love this quote, and I've heard from many other places. By that logic, the current law banning concealed carry in restaurants can't be enforced. But what was I thinking, logic does not compute with the brains of anti-gunners.
    I know, I find that so funny. What stops someone without a chp from carrying concealed into a bar and even drinking?
    I work at a Hampton "Restaurant That Serves Alcohol" as a bouncer and we have thugs and other POS illegally carrying into our bar area.

    As proof, last month someone left his jacket at the bar. After we closed, his wife knocked on the door and asked if we found her husbands coat. She said he got drunk and left it at the bar.

    I got the coat and when I picked it up, I found a loaded Glock 19 in the jacket pocket...

    Had someone that we kicked out come back with a pistol and threatened another employee. Only the honest citizens are obeying this stupid carry law. The criminals are thumbing their noses at us.


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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    But we'll die morally superior for having obeyed the laws that cost us our lives!

    Yay, laws! They make us safe.

    /sarcasm
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    But we'll die morally superior for having obeyed the laws that cost us our lives!

    Yay, laws! They make us safe.

    /sarcasm
    +1 :celebrateI love sarcasm..

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Someone made this point the other day... and it sinks in and raises a really good question...

    Why are our police officers allowed to lobby the legislative process in their official capacity as servants of the public?

    If you're a federal employee, this will get you in hot water! Why is it different at the state level?

    Police departments enforce the law. They do not get to write the law. That should be left to the people.

    Has there ever been an effort to bring this restriction to Virginia?

    TFred
    Reminds me of my military days. While in uniform or representing the service you have no 1st amendment rights. As a private citizen you do. As soon as you use the "official" type of position becomes a crab boil with all the hot water.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Coolman wrote:
    NEED TO HIT THE POLL HARD WE ARE ONLY AHEAD BY 30%
    As of a moment ago, down to 23% ahead:

    Veto
    37% (460 votes)

    Approve
    60% (737 votes)

    The bill needs more modification
    3% (39 votes)

    Total votes: 1236

    TFred


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    ODA 226 wrote:
    I work at a Hampton "Restaurant That Serves Alcohol" as a bouncer and we have thugs and other POS illegally carrying into our bar area.

    As proof, last month someone left his jacket at the bar. After we closed, his wife knocked on the door and asked if we found her husbands coat. She said he got drunk and left it at the bar.

    I got the coat and when I picked it up, I found a loaded Glock 19 in the jacket pocket...
    Was that the same day you acquired a "second-hand Glock 19, gently used" for your collection? :P

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Veto 17% (511 votes)
    Approve 81% (2397 votes)
    The bill needs more modification 1% (44 votes)
    Total votes: 2952


    Seems pretty obvious what the people want.

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    Regular Member apollosmom's Avatar
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    Guess the "Pro Freedom" vote is overwhelming the "Oppression" vote enough that the Virginian Pravda has disabled the poll to prevent more of us "non-Commonwealth's Attorneys or designated representatives" to cast our vote.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    apollosmom wrote:
    Guess the "Pro Freedom" vote is overwhelming the "Oppression" vote enough that the Virginian Pravda has disabled the poll to prevent more of us "non-Commonwealth's Attorneys or designated representatives" to cast our vote.
    It looks like the poll is still functional.


    Veto 14% (556 votes)
    Approve 85% (3350 votes)
    The bill needs more modification 1% (48 votes)
    Total votes: 3954

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Why are our police officers allowed to lobby the legislative process in their official capacity as servants of the public?
    Please note: Only "The Chiefs" are weighing in against the will of their masters. The Sheriffs don't have a problem with us exercising our rights.

    It's the difference between a shield and a star.

    The star is accountable directly to the people as their boss is an elected by those same people. The shield. . .not at all.

    Just one of the many reasons I moved into Loudoun from Fairfax.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/stat...unsinbars-bill

    VIRGINIA BEACH - Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.
    Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.

    Our own John Fenter rebutted this on WVEC Ch 13 11:00pm news http://www.wvec.com/ (can't find link to video footage yet).

    Good job, John!

    The wife & I went to the St Patrick's Day festivities at City Center in NN earlier this evening. I admit to CCing (jacket on, cold), but sported my GSL button, which received many favorable comments. Also ran into CF2500rider1000.

    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/stat...unsinbars-bill

    VIRGINIA BEACH - Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.
    Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.

    Our own John Fenter rebutted this on WVEC Ch 13 11:00pm news http://www.wvec.com/ (can't find link to video footage yet).

    Good job, John!

    The wife & I went to the St Patrick's Day festivities at City Center in NN earlier this evening. I admit to CCing (jacket on, cold), but sported my GSL button, which received many favorable comments. Also ran into CF2500rider1000.
    If you read what this ass wrote, he keeps referring to being granted a right.

    God gives OCer's rights. The Judge gives CCers PRIVILEGES!

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    peter nap wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/stat...unsinbars-bill

    VIRGINIA BEACH - Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.
    Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.

    Our own John Fenter rebutted this on WVEC Ch 13 11:00pm news http://www.wvec.com/ (can't find link to video footage yet).

    Good job, John!

    The wife & I went to the St Patrick's Day festivities at City Center in NN earlier this evening. I admit to CCing (jacket on, cold), but sported my GSL button, which received many favorable comments. Also ran into CF2500rider1000.
    If you read what this ass wrote, he keeps referring to being granted a right.

    God gives OCer's rights. The Judge gives CCers PRIVILEGES!
    Actually the judge has very little to do with it. More fair to say the GA gives CCers privileges.


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    2a4all wrote:
    OakRidgeStars wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/stat...unsinbars-bill

    VIRGINIA BEACH - Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.
    Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.

    Our own John Fenter rebutted this on WVEC Ch 13 11:00pm news http://www.wvec.com/ (can't find link to video footage yet).

    Good job, John!

    The wife & I went to the St Patrick's Day festivities at City Center in NN earlier this evening. I admit to CCing (jacket on, cold), but sported my GSL button, which received many favorable comments. Also ran into CF2500rider1000.
    I was there as well, OC, with my wife and kids, I hung out by the stage drinking my coffee, and wishingI had brought a light jacket

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    Does anyone recall the time when the Alexandria Police Chief drunkenly wrecked his car? And he had his gun too... You can't get ANYONE to follow laws if they don't feel like it.

    I favor freedom... >.>

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    PeteXD wrote:
    Does anyone recall the time when the Alexandria Police Chief drunkenly wrecked his car? And he had his gun too... You can't get ANYONE to follow laws if they don't feel like it.

    I favor freedom... >.>
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072801583.html

    Wow.

    ETA: I just read through the whole article... I bet he ended up getting taken for a ride by the other driver he hit... The accident was while merging on to I-66, and "Officials estimated that each vehicle had about $900 in damage". Yet, the other driver was taken to the hospital with "whiplash and back pain."

    $900 is barely more than scratched paint... That's got "ambulance chaser" written all over it.

    TFred


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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    PeteXD wrote:
    Does anyone recall the time when the Alexandria Police Chief drunkenly wrecked his car? And he had his gun too... You can't get ANYONE to follow laws if they don't feel like it.

    I favor freedom... >.>
    Not to mention VA Beach Officers;

    Nov 25, 2009 ... Virginia Beach Police officer to serve jail time after DUI conviction.

    December 2009 - A Virginia Beach police officer – the second this year – was charged with driving under the influence and hit-and-run Saturday morning.

    Feb 10, 2010 - A Virginia Beach police sergeant is facing jail time after a drunken driving arrest.


    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



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