The City of Warren OC Awareness Bike Ride Through Warren and Picnic

FatboyCykes · Mar 17, 2010

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mikestilly wrote:

750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(a) Taken down.

(b) Enclosed in a case.

(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating MCL 312.10(1)(g).
Sec. 227c.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

(3) This section does not apply to a person who violates section 10(1)(g) of chapter II of Act No. 286 of the Public Acts of 1929, as amended, being section 312.10 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

Where is the gray area?

Main Entry: [sup]1[/sup]me·chan·i·cal Pronunciation: \mi-ˈka-ni-kəl\Function: adjective Date: 15th century 1 a [/i](1)[/i] : of or relating to machinery or tools <mechanical applications of science> <a mechanical genius> <mechanical aptitude> (2)[/i] : produced or operated by a machine or tool <mechanical power> <a mechanical refrigerator> <a mechanical saw> b : of or relating to manual operations
2 : of or relating to artisans or machinists <the mechanical trades>
3 a : done as if by machine : seemingly uninfluenced by the mind or emotions : automatic b : of or relating to technicalities or petty matters
4 a : relating to, governed by, or in accordance with the principles of mechanics <mechanical energy> b : relating to the quantitative relations of force and matter <mechanical pressure of wind on a tower>
5 : caused by, resulting from, or relating to a process that involves a purely physical as opposed to a chemical or biological change or process <mechanical erosion of rock>

lapeer20m · Mar 17, 2010

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I think that an oc bicycle ride sounds fantastic!

mikestilly wrote:

750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

Where is the gray area?

no problem with that law.....but that is not the mcl in question.

750.227 is the applicable mcl. The part in bold is why I think it IS legal to oc on a motorcycle/bicycle without cpl since neither the rider or the pistol is "in a vehicle"

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

The court did find that a convicted felon who had a pistol concealed under the seat/gas tank of his motorcycle was guilty of the above mcl....but that scenario is apples and oranges to oc'ing on a bicycle.

http://legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28ebiql32dictjf3b3ojr42h55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-227

mikestilly · Mar 17, 2010

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It's very clear that both laws apply to firearms other then a pistol. You can't pick an choose which ones to apply.

scot623 · Mar 17, 2010

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mikestilly wrote:

750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(a) Taken down.

(b) Enclosed in a case.

(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating MCL 312.10(1)(g).
Sec. 227c.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

(3) This section does not apply to a person who violates section 10(1)(g) of chapter II of Act No. 286 of the Public Acts of 1929, as amended, being section 312.10 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

Where is the gray area?

Thanks for the cite Mike, I love mountain biking and city riding. I've looked forward to an OC city ride this spring summer. I'll clear my calendar to attend.

mikestilly · Mar 17, 2010

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I'm requesting people who have extra bikes please bring them with you for others who do not have one. (please post that you're bringing them so we know how many extras are available) The more of us out there the better.

Michigander · Mar 17, 2010

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I will be riding in if I make it to this one, so I can only bring my one bike.

Will there be a planned route? Michigan is utterly terrible for riding in urban areas. This whole place was built to force people to drive. It can be inconvenient and deadly to bicycle commute around here. :cuss:

So, I suggest that if you don't have a planned route, make one. You'll want calm side streets, wide shoulders, or bicycle lanes.

Also important for everyone to remember is to obey all traffic laws. Signal when turning. Ride no more than 2 abreast, but preferably ride in single file. Don't ride on the sidewalk, don't roll through a stop sign, and don't disobey a light. Doing so could get you a ticket. Not normally, but if you're OCing, history has proven that police will search the laws far and wide to nail you with anything. This is another reason to come up with a good route.

T Vance · Mar 17, 2010

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.

mikestilly · Mar 17, 2010

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I will be biking and drawing up a good route. I'll post details once I've completed a safe route.

RichardCrainium · Mar 17, 2010

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lapeer20m · Mar 18, 2010

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i'm finished arguing.....I agree the mcl you posted only applies to long guns.

This mcl clearly applies to pistols.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

mikestilly · Mar 18, 2010

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lapeer20m wrote:

i'm finished arguing.....I agree the mcl you posted only applies to long guns.

This mcl clearly applies to pistols.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

Sure what is the MCL # so we can review it? I have no idea what that cite is. We're not arguing. Only discussing the laws. We do this all the time at OCDO. You shouldn't take offence to it in any way.

You also missed a key aspect of this law.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

**We are open carrying. Nobody can be concealed without a CPL outside of their private property. This we already know. **

CoonDog · Mar 18, 2010

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Is a bicycle a vehicle? I haven't been able to find an MCL definition where it would be construed as a vehicle under Section 750.227(2).

SpringerXDacp · Mar 18, 2010

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CoonDog wrote:

Is a bicycle a vehicle? I haven't been able to find an MCL definition where it would be construed as a vehicle under Section 750.227(2).

In my OPINION, no, it is not a vehicle.

257.4 “Bicycle” defined.

Sec. 4.

“Bicycle” means a device propelled by human power upon which a person may ride, having either 2 or 3 wheels in a tandem or tricycle arrangement, all of which are over 14 inches in diameter.

History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;-- Am. 1971, Act 151, Imd. Eff. Nov. 22, 1971 ;-- Am. 1975, Act 209, Imd. Eff. Aug. 25, 1975 ;-- Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977

Now look at:

324.40104 Definitions; T, V.

Sec. 40104.

(1) "Take" means to hunt with any weapon, dog, raptor, or other wild or domestic animal trained for that purpose; kill; chase; follow; harass; harm; pursue; shoot; rob; trap; capture; or collect animals, or to attempt to engage in such an activity.

(2) "Transport" means to carry or ship animals within this state or to points outside this state.

(3) "Trap" means taking or attempting to take animals by means of a trap or other device designed to kill or capture animals.

(4) "Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported, except devices exclusively moved by human power.

History: Add. 1995, Act 57, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1995
Popular Name: Act 451

mikestilly · Mar 18, 2010

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Thanks Springer. That should put the issue to bed.

Michigander · Mar 18, 2010

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I brought that up in the past, or maybe it was someone else that did, I can't remember. Anyway, I seem to remember it being said that you don't want to rely on the definition from one law to define the terminology of another.

Not a lawyer, so I don't know. :?

mikestilly · Mar 18, 2010

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Michigander wrote:

I brought that up in the past, or maybe it was someone else that did, I can't remember. Anyway, I seem to remember it being said that you don't want to rely on the definition from one law to define the terminology of another.

Not a lawyer, so I don't know. :?

From what I understand if it's not defined in the law the dictionary version is acceptable. Either way the law was concerning conceal carry and not carry in general.

CoonDog · Mar 18, 2010

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mikestilly wrote:

From what I understand if it's not defined in the law the dictionary version is acceptable. Either way the law was concerning conceal carry and not carry in general.

I hate to through a monkey wrench into this discussion, but if we have to rely on a dictionary, we may be disappointed.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/bicycle

Main Entry: [sup]1[/sup]bi·cy·cle
Pronunciation: ˈbī-si-kəl, -ˌsi- also -ˌsī-
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from bi- + -cycle (as in tricycle)
Date: 1863
: a vehicle with two wheels tandem, handlebars for steering, a saddle seat, and pedals by which it is propelled;

mikestilly · Mar 18, 2010

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ok ok ok ok ok I'm adding OC Bike Ride for CPL holders, non-cpl holders ride at your own risk.

Lets now change the subject I think we beat it to death.

lapeer20m · Mar 18, 2010

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mikestilly wrote:

ok ok ok ok ok I'm adding OC Bike Ride for CPL holders, non-cpl holders ride at your own risk.

Lets now change the subject I think we beat it to death.

+1

mikestilly · Mar 19, 2010

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