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Thread: Mayor of Belle Meade, TN says no gun ban being considered for her town

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    http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...-meade-gun-ban

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    After a gun rights activist walked down a Belle Meade street with a loaded pistol in his hand, the city decided it needed to clean up an outdated law on its books.

    But the change has stirred a wave of opposition from gun rights groups including the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action which made a post Tuesday on its website that claimed the city was trying to ban guns.

    “Not only does this legislation create a victim zone inside Belle Meade by disarming law-abiding citizens, it is also a clear violation of Tennessee’s preemption statutes,” the post read in part.

    The NRA-ILA urged citizens to voice opposition to an ordinance on the Wednesday city commission agenda.

    “There is a rumor going around that we are going to ban handguns, guns in the city,” said Mayor Gray Thornburg.

    She said the rumor is a “complete misunderstanding.” The city is merely realigning their ordinance to be in line with state regulations.

    . . .

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    How do you know when a politician is lying?














    Their lips are moving.

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    The amendment makes it unconstitutional at the State level so how are they making it compliant? She doesn't want to ban guns or anything, she is just taking away the only exception which could allow someone to carry.

    The vote was defered until April 21, 2010.


    This was the proposed amendment which passed on first reading:






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    They may be re-writing the draft before they take a final vote.

    All they have to do is go with what they have started (deleting the original esception for the Army/Navy B&C revolver caried "in hand") and add to the other exceptions to include persons with a valid HCP or permit from another state recognized by TN. This would make the ordinance compliant with TN 39-17-13 and not violate preemption.

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    Which would probably make it legal. I told them last month that their proposed amended ordinance was unconstitutional. I told themwhy and gave them case law. They ignored me, but I don't have a say as I do not live in Belle Meade.

    Will the law be okay post McDonald?

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Which would probably make it legal. I told them last month that their proposed amended ordinance was unconstitutional. I told themwhy and gave them case law. They ignored me, but I don't have a say as I do not live in Belle Meade.

    Will the law be okay post McDonald?
    Which is more the reason to go jog in a reflective vest carrying a weapon in your hand right? I mean really, why would you go for a jog in your own neighborhood right? Besides an unloaded weapon do you also carry a spoon? You sure love to stir S$%* up. Then again, anyone who gets fired as a bus driver surely needs even more attention.

    Yada Who?

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    Spanky wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    Which would probably make it legal. I told them last month that their proposed amended ordinance was unconstitutional. I told themwhy and gave them case law. They ignored me, but I don't have a say as I do not live in Belle Meade.

    Will the law be okay post McDonald?
    Which is more the reason to go jog in a reflective vest carrying a weapon in your hand right? I mean really, why would you go for a jog in your own neighborhood right? Besides an unloaded weapon do you also carry a spoon? You sure love to stir S$%* up. Then again, anyone who gets fired as a bus driver surely needs even more attention.

    Yada Who?
    Belle Meade requires reflective clothing. My neighborhood is hilly and Belle Meade is flat. I have never been fired from any job.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Spanky wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    Which would probably make it legal. I told them last month that their proposed amended ordinance was unconstitutional. I told themwhy and gave them case law. They ignored me, but I don't have a say as I do not live in Belle Meade.

    Will the law be okay post McDonald?
    Which is more the reason to go jog in a reflective vest carrying a weapon in your hand right? I mean really, why would you go for a jog in your own neighborhood right? Besides an unloaded weapon do you also carry a spoon? You sure love to stir S$%* up. Then again, anyone who gets fired as a bus driver surely needs even more attention.

    Yada Who?
    Belle Meade requires reflective clothing. My neighborhood is hilly and Belle Meade is flat. I have never been fired from any job.
    So if you didn't get fired from teh school bus driving job, you must have quite of your own volition. I guess you figured you had hit the money jackpot after the park incident, then. Didn't need that bus driving job anymore.

    We'll see how that works out for ya.

    Terrain differences is a really lame excuse to go to another town for your walks/jogging.

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    This is epic.


    He goes out and follows the letter of the law to show how ridiculous it is. The PRO-GUN types, start a false and fictitious campaign to vilify kwik, so that they could feel justified.

    HUGE BACKFIRE ALERT!


    Mayor confirms they're simply amending it to follow state law.



    Hey. Hey all you vitriol filled fear-mongering commentary types. Hows a big bucket of "LOL" feel?

    Kwik will have his HCP back soon as well. Then you can guys can start dredging up the next fear-filled, hyperbolic, worry sessions. Oh wait, he is still open carrying and no babies are dying, no freedoms being revoked, and strangely, he isn't mimicking serial killers and mass-murderers as some of you predicted all of what, 6 months ago?

    I am laughing so hard right now.

    Have a GREAT day!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    So if you didn't get fired from teh school bus driving job, you must have quite of your own volition. I guess you figured you had hit the money jackpot after the park incident, then. Didn't need that bus driving job anymore.
    I take my civil rights seriously, yet it appears many do not. IMO, the only way to get respect for civil rights is in court and with a monetary judgement. But, I could accept retraining an apologies in some cases. In the Belle Meade instance I offered and they did not accept and it appears to me they retaliated.

    I gave this interview awhile ago I told them I just wanted an apology.

    I filed a complaint with the chief of police for the city of Belle Meade for violations of the fourth amendment and due process. I complained that the officer had no right to search my interior pockets during a terry stop. There was no reasonable suspicion I had weapons in my pockets. I should have been released immediately instead of the officers running my handgun to see if it was stolen. There was no reasonable articulable suspicion or probable that the handgun was stolen and it should not have been seized to run it. Police are not to play games with citizens. They shouldn’t go on fishing expeditions and the courts have ruled against these. I have heard nothing from the police chief as of today. If they came forward and apologized to me in a letter and promised to train their officers in handgun carry laws of the City I would let it go.”

    We ask Chief Eads if he plans to apologize. He sends That Is Messed Up this statement:


    “I seriously doubt he will let anything go. There is no money in it. I think if he was serious about changing the law he would have sued the State for one dollar and a change in the law. I would be happy to apologize if we did anything wrong, and the Officers do know the law. He was not cited for any crime, and they had just cause to briefly detain him. He can’t seem to understand that, and I don’t think he ever will. I should have a written response to his complaint by the first of the week or sooner.”

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Belle Meade requires reflective clothing. My neighborhood is hilly and Belle Meade is flat. I have never been fired from any job.
    So now you're a bold face liar as well?! Yes Leotard, you did. Hence the reason your wife started filming school buses and complaining they were being unsafe. I'm sure anyone who wants the real reason could call and find out.

    And no, your neighborhood is not hilly. When are you finally going to admit the fact that you have nothing better to do than tread on thin ice and stir s%@* up? No one is going to apologize to you for being a freaking idiot. It's not anyone elses fault you consumed paint chips as a child.

    Oh and Task, the park incident was after he was terminated as a bus driver.

    Yada what?

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    Spanky wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    Belle Meade requires reflective clothing. My neighborhood is hilly and Belle Meade is flat. I have never been fired from any job.
    So now you're a bold face liar as well?! Yes Leotard, you did. Hence the reason your wife started filming school buses and complaining they were being unsafe. I'm sure anyone who wants the real reason could call and find out.

    And no, your neighborhood is not hilly. When are you finally going to admit the fact that you have nothing better to do than tread on thin ice and stir s%@* up? No one is going to apologize to you for being a freaking idiot. It's not anyone elses fault you consumed paint chips as a child.

    Oh and Task, the park incident was after he was terminated as a bus driver.

    Yada what?
    Your facts are way off.

    I quit I was not fired. I live on a hill. The park incident was before I quit my job.

    On the bus thing I caught major flak over that. I reported school bus drivers speeding and crossing railroad tracks w/o stopping. Nothing was done. I video taped and so did my wife. Channel 4 ran a story. I also notified csx railroad, the sheriff, and the highway patrol officer who does yearly training saw the videos. I was chastized but eventually my bosses saw the light and made retraining a priority. Kids get killed when bus drivers do not follow the law and school district policy and stop at railroad crossings. Hopefully they are more safe because my kids ride the bus and I don't want a train to hit them.



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    Spanky, you're an immature little troll. Seriously, you make fun of the man's name? What are you, 8? Your "tactics" discredit your opinions to reasonable people, so please continue to make yourself look like a dumbass.

    kwik, you must have skin a foot thick to put up with these idiots. Do you have any plans for the possibility that TN refuses to reinstate your HCP?:celebrate

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    theqbn wrote:
    Do you have any plans for the possibility that TN refuses to reinstate your HCP?
    I'll just appeal down the line. District court, court of appeals, TN Supreme Court. By that time McDonald will have decided I have an individual right to bear arms and I doubt the reason TNDPS suspended my permit will stand.

    I don't think there will be a hearing, I think they will reinstate my permit w/o one. That is just a guess on my part. If there is a hearing they have the burden of showing evidence.

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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    This is epic.


    He goes out and follows the letter of the law to show how ridiculous it is. The PRO-GUN types, start a false and fictitious campaign to vilify kwik, so that they could feel justified.

    HUGE BACKFIRE ALERT!


    Mayor confirms they're simply amending it to follow state law.



    Hey. Hey all you vitriol filled fear-mongering commentary types. Hows a big bucket of "LOL" feel?

    Kwik will have his HCP back soon as well. Then you can guys can start dredging up the next fear-filled, hyperbolic, worry sessions. Oh wait, he is still open carrying and no babies are dying, no freedoms being revoked, and strangely, he isn't mimicking serial killers and mass-murderers as some of you predicted all of what, 6 months ago?

    I am laughing so hard right now.

    Have a GREAT day!
    Well if you look at their proposed changes, it says nothing about the ordinance not applying to those with a permit.

    The new ordinance deletes the exception that would include the Navy black powder pistol Leonard Embody carried when he walked down Belle Meade Boulevard in mid-February.
    “That’s all we are doing,” Thornburg said. “We’re deleting that particular part which is very, very old. Historically, everybody had that in there.”
    Quotes from: http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...-meade-gun-ban

    If the current ordinance is OK as it predates whatever date was the cut off for municipalities etc. from limiting firearms, and they are not passing a new law, but amending the old one in such a manner that NO firearms can be carried (by removing the bit about the old revolver) nothing has really changed and they are still acting as permitted with TN Law.


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    The city ordinance in Belle Meade,even when revised, is pretty much in line with state law. Other towns in TN have similar ordinances. Memphis has the same thing and so do other suburban towns outside Memphis. That does not mean your permit is not 'good' in Memphis city limits or Belle Meade or Germantown or Collierville. It is a bunch of hogwash if you think that.



    It is generally illegal in TN to even POSSESS a firearmor club with intent to go armed.



    Defenses to prosecution include:

    A written directive or handgun carry permit

    Being on your own property, residence, business, domicile

    Incident to hunting, fishing, trapping, sporting type activities

    A judge

    Prison guard

    LEO

    Protecting livestock with a long gun

    Camping





    I may have missed a couple defenses to prosecution but I tried to get all of them off the top of my head. As you can see, our law is based on 'intent' and also it is generally illegal to posses with 'intent' in TN unless you meet the following defenses to prosecution. We are not like other states where it is only say illegal to conceal but otherwise possession/carry legal. The penal code here is very very different. Technically a cop could arrest a prison guard and have the prison guard just work it out in court that he was truly on duty while carrying a handgun or going to and from work or a vested prison guard...not going to happen bbut yes it can techynically happen since it is illegal to 'possess' with 'intent to go armed'.

    On a side note, I would like to see KWIK drive just a little ways to West Memphis Arkansas and carry that Army gun or even heck a real pistol openly in the hand loaded and walk down Missouri Ave or Broadway in West Memphis Arkansas....and he can tell the cops while he has that gun in his hand loaded that he's on a journeyand he's in compliance with Haile V State....see what West Memphis Po Po says about that...I'll be laughing here in Shelby County when I see some of that Kwik on the Memphis TV for some entertainment on the news. I'd buy him a beer if he went to the armpit of Arkansas and did that and tell West Memphis Po Po his rights to openly carry while on a journey.

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    Anyone who says that the proposed Belle Meade ordinance passes TN State Constitutional muster is wrong.

    Andrews v State and Glasscock v Chattanooga show that laws within the State can't prohibit the carry of firearms. The Legislature may only regulate. Read our constitution.

    Memphis knows they cannot enforce their law because they know it is unconstitutional. If Belle Meade were to pass their law trying to enforce it would be unconstitutional. Brentwood prohibits carry and their law is unconstitutional. Unconstitutional laws should be repealed, but for the most part no one cares because the laws are not enforced.

    I'm not going to drive 3 hours to carry a gun in Memphis. I'd rather go up to Mammoth caves in KY and open carry in a National park with my AK pistol.





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    So to clarify...

    The previous wording of the ordinance was legal as it was a "regulation" not an all out ban on the carrying of arms, but now the proposed ordinance (according to the draft) is not legal as it is worded as an all out ban, not just regulation?

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    JD wrote:
    So to clarify...

    The previous wording of the ordinance was legal as it was a "regulation" not an all out ban on the carrying of arms, but now the proposed ordinance (according to the draft) is not legal as it is worded as an all out ban, not just regulation?
    Yes, that is how I understand and how it has been interpreted in the past by the TN Supreme Court.

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    A call today revealed that you were in fact "forced" to "resign", and no not all of your neighborhood is a hill. The fact that you said "they saw my point" was also more a less for you to leave them alone.

    Theqbn? No tactics here, just facts. Some choose to be a little less direct but I prefer to tell it like it is. Sue me.

    The moral of this all is, use common sense and the state wont take your s$%@. Carry a loaded weapon in your hand and well you know the rest.

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    Spanky wrote:
    A call today revealed that you were in fact "forced" to "resign", and no not all of your neighborhood is a hill. The fact that you said "they saw my point" was also more a less for you to leave them alone.

    Theqbn? No tactics here, just facts. Some choose to be a little less direct but I prefer to tell it like it is. Sue me.

    The moral of this all is, use common sense and the state wont take your s$%@. Carry a loaded weapon in your hand and well you know the rest.
    I'm putting you on ignore because you're wrong on all counts. In fact I'm going to make a new rule and not respond to anyone who has less than 100 posts.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Your facts are way off.

    I quit I was not fired. I live on a hill. The park incident was before I quit my job.

    On the bus thing I caught major flak over that. I reported school bus drivers speeding and crossing railroad tracks w/o stopping. Nothing was done. I video taped and so did my wife. Channel 4 ran a story. I also notified csx railroad, the sheriff, and the highway patrol officer who does yearly training saw the videos. I was chastized but eventually my bosses saw the light and made retraining a priority. Kids get killed when bus drivers do not follow the law and school district policy and stop at railroad crossings. Hopefully they are more safe because my kids ride the bus and I don't want a train to hit them.

    Maybe the school figured you might niot have the best judgment to be driving a bus for them, after the park incidence.

    Let me guess, you didn't take your concerns to the board of education about drivers not stopping at RR crossings, first. You just gathered up your videos and went public with it, like you did the Belle Meade ordinance. Is that about right?

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    Your facts are way off.

    I quit I was not fired. I live on a hill. The park incident was before I quit my job.

    On the bus thing I caught major flak over that. I reported school bus drivers speeding and crossing railroad tracks w/o stopping. Nothing was done. I video taped and so did my wife. Channel 4 ran a story. I also notified csx railroad, the sheriff, and the highway patrol officer who does yearly training saw the videos. I was chastized but eventually my bosses saw the light and made retraining a priority. Kids get killed when bus drivers do not follow the law and school district policy and stop at railroad crossings. Hopefully they are more safe because my kids ride the bus and I don't want a train to hit them.

    Maybe the school figured you might niot have the best judgment to be driving a bus for them, after the park incidence.

    Let me guess, you didn't take your concerns to the board of education about drivers not stopping at RR crossings, first. You just gathered up your videos and went public with it, like you did the Belle Meade ordinance. Is that about right?
    Did you read the post you quoted. It says I reported it and the transportation did nothing. I then emailed the info to the appropriate authorities and news media. Only then was something done.



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    kwikrnu wrote:
    I'm putting you on ignore because you're wrong on all counts. In fact I'm going to make a new rule and not respond to anyone who has less than 100 posts.
    Anyone is more than welcome to call and hear for themselves. You were obviously a liability and the school board saw it. It's amazing that anyone that has delt with you all think the same thing... You're nucking futs.



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    Spanky wrote:
    Anyone is more than welcome to call and hear for themselves. You were obviously a liability and the school board saw it. It's amazing that anyone that has delt with you all think the same thing... You're nucking futs.
    Whats interesting about this, is most HR departments wouldn't touch anything even remotely close to your commentary with a 10 foot pole.

    Especially IF there were concerns about someone being fired for any sort of incompetence.

    In fact, generalized commentary such as "Yeah he was fired" never really happen. No employer, especially a government agency, wants a lawsuit on them for being responsible for someone elses unemployment.

    Typical HR correspondence would be something like the following:

    --Potential Employer--: "Did Mr. Embody work for you?"

    --Human Resources Rep--: "Yes he did."

    --PE--:"He states his time of employment from March 1st 2004 to February 8th 2008, is this accurate?"

    --HRR--: "Yes, that appears to be accurate according to our records.".


    I find it hard to believe that you would call his prior place of employment and it would go like:

    --Fake Potential Employer (Spanky)--: "So I hear Mr. Embody got terminated because he carried that AK in the park?".

    --PE--:"Oh yeah he is such a dumb guy with a stupid face, and he was terminated cause guns are ee-vile, and he is mentally incompetent!"



    One of those versions are bound to be real, and I am betting its the former.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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