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Positive OC LEO encounter on school property

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scot623

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I don't care what those crafty LEO's are sayin' , they are just trying to jam you up! Never talk to LEO's!(sarcasm). This is one example of when wash, rinse, repeat just wasn't neccesary. Every situation is unique and it is up to each of us to decide when to talk or not. Great job, Scott.
 
Michigander

Michigander

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scot623 wrote:
Every situation is unique and it is up to each of us to decide when to talk or not. Great job, Scott.
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Much more important than the situation is the individual. Talking like this, for a solid 90% of the people here, including me I must admit, is ill advisable.

There will come a time, just like in the gold star states, when police and open carriers get to an understanding, and see each other neutrally, or even consider each other to be on friendly and appreciative terms as a rule. Actions like these bring that day ever closer. But we aren't there yet, and it is important for everyone to still remember to carry recorders, and exercise due caution when stopped.
 
Outdoorsman

Outdoorsman

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Michigander wrote:
scot623 wrote:
Every situation is unique and it is up to each of us to decide when to talk or not. Great job, Scott.
Click to expand...
Much more important than the situation is the individual. Talking like this, for a solid 90% of the people here, including me I must admit, is ill advisable.

There will come a time, just like in the gold star states, when police and open carriers get to an understanding, and see each other neutrally, or even consider each other to be on friendly and appreciative terms as a rule. Actions like these bring that day ever closer. But we aren't there yet, and it is important for everyone to still remember to carry recorders, and exercise due caution when stopped.
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Amen!
 
C

coderdude

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sprinklerguy28 wrote:
So I received a phone call from the Lt. today. He informed me that they had spoke with the MSP legal division and the Macomb County prosecutor's office. They confirmed I was 100% legal in my actions and interpretation of the laws. He thanked me for the time I took to discuss it with him. He also said once he receives the written confirmations being sent to him, he will see to the retraining of his department and new training for all school officials as promised. He asked if I would meet with him and assist in reviewing the training material and provide my input. I was also told again I was more than welcome to attend these trainings. He then stated the prosecutor's office will be contacting me directly for input on information to be sent to all departments in the county. We will also be discussing how to bridge the gap between citizens and LE on firearm issues.

Edit to add

My sincerest thank you to the Sterling Heights Police Department for setting a shining example for other departments to follow. :celebrate:monkey
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That is great news! Good job.
 
G

Guest

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Michigander wrote:
scot623 wrote:
Every situation is unique and it is up to each of us to decide when to talk or not. Great job, Scott.
Click to expand...
Much more important than the situation is the individual. Talking like this, for a solid 90% of the people here, including me I must admit, is ill advisable.

There will come a time, just like in the gold star states, when police and open carriers get to an understanding, and see each other neutrally, or even consider each other to be on friendly and appreciative terms as a rule. Actions like these bring that day ever closer. But we aren't there yet, and it is important for everyone to still remember to carry recorders, and exercise due caution when stopped.
Click to expand...
Yes, every situation is unique. And just as Michigander says, more importantly is the individual's knowledge, ability, and skills.

Sprinklerguy possesses these atributes to a greater level than has been demonstrated by any other individual on this forum. I can see him engaging and being embraced by the LE community much easier than say someone like yourself.

Insofar as you encounter, I saw no benefit from engaging the officer's. No attitudinal change was accomplished. It was very apparent that from the onset until conclusion, they were going to be confrontational and remain so. This is evidenced by their parting shot... "Try being a little more decent next time".

While not having the benefit of a recording, it is apparent that from the onset it was not the intention of the SHPD to "investigate" or even "interview" sprinklerguy.

So with this in mind, I will continue to implement W,R,R during my LEO encounters, as I do not have the same abilities as sprinklerguy.

Furthermore, having talked with him and seen him in action, I feel that his resignation from his position from MOC is a great loss of leadership and I would emplore each and every member of MOC to contact the leaders of MOC and ask them to contact sprinklerguy, as I plan on doing, in an attempt to reconcile the "rift" and draw him back into the leadership of the organization.

I believe that sprinklerguy is an asset that the organization needs as a leader, more so than as an individual member acting inividually.
 
S

scot623

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"Furthermore, having talked with him and seen him in action, I feel that his resignation from his position from MOC is a great loss of leadership and I would emplore each and every member of MOC to contact the leaders of MOC and ask them to contact sprinklerguy, as I plan on doing, in an attempt to reconcile the "rift" and draw him back into the leadership of the organization.

I believe that sprinklerguy is an asset that the organization needs as a leader, more so than as an individual member acting inividually."

Truer words may have never been spoken on these forums. I agree completely.
 
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springerdave

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Michigander said, "it is important for everyone to still remember to carry recorders". You did have your recorder running, didn't you? Anyway, you did a great job. "What balls he has!"
Sprinklerguy said," He then stated the prosecutor's office will be contacting me".... That part would alarm me as I the other shoe has yet to fall. Three officers all being interested in what a person has to say, even if they said that that person was free to go, is still an "investigation" imo. If they were not "investigating" they would have simply followed that person out the door and allowed him to leave unimpeded. Sprinkerguy is a leader, organization or no organization!springerdave.
 
S

scot623

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springerdave wrote:
Michigander said, "it is important for everyone to still remember to carry recorders". You did have your recorder running, didn't you? Anyway, you did a great job. "What balls he has!"
Sprinklerguy said," He then stated the prosecutor's office will be contacting me".... That part would alarm me as I the other shoe has yet to fall. Three officers all being interested in what a person has to say, even if they said that that person was free to go, is still an "investigation" imo. If they were not "investigating" they would have simply followed that person out the door and allowed him to leave unimpeded. Sprinkerguy is a leader, organization or no organization!springerdave.
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crafty LEO's... :banghead:
 
M

mikestilly

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You guys I'm telling you this is the huge to the open carry movement in Michigan. Why, You might ask. It's because this can be used as a model for training and officer responsibility, school officials, parents and families for truly understanding open carry and what it's about. The chief of this department is now going to have formalized training for officers. This type of thing can be packaged up and done for every single department in the state of Michigan. You dont think so? Take a look at the people involved MSP, Macomb County Prosecutors Office, Sterling Heights School Employees, and more. With their help we can train every officer and school district in the state about open carry. Not only the parents and families that will learn about open carry from all the training taking place. It's unreal you guys. This something we've been trying to do for years. Not only does it bring awareness but it also brings credibility of open carry as a fundamental mode of legal firearms carry in the state of Michigan! We need to take complete advantage of this and run with it as far as it possibly can!

I have to commend the Sterling Heights PD for everything they are doing.
The possibilities are endless. I'd like to see an open carry flier with detailed information sent home to the parents of every child in school across the state of Michigan.
 
S

springerdave

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scot623 wrote:
springerdave wrote:
Michigander said, "it is important for everyone to still remember to carry recorders". You did have your recorder running, didn't you? Anyway, you did a great job. "What balls he has!"
Sprinklerguy said," He then stated the prosecutor's office will be contacting me".... That part would alarm me as I the other shoe has yet to fall. Three officers all being interested in what a person has to say, even if they said that that person was free to go, is still an "investigation" imo. If they were not "investigating" they would have simply followed that person out the door and allowed him to leave unimpeded. Sprinkerguy is a leader, organization or no organization!springerdave.
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crafty LEO's... :banghead:
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Guarded skepticism, cautious optimism.springerdave.
 
S

scot623

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mikestilly said "New people and veteran OC'ers should stick to this very simple process.

You:"Am I being detained?"

Officer: No answer or no.

If that happens simply calmly walk away."

None of this positive outcome would have happened if sprinklerguy28 followed that advice. Do what feels right to you. There is no absolute ONE way to handle every situation.
 
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Mike

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sprinklerguy28 wrote:
Walked my son to his classroom yesterday OCing as usual. After saying goodbye to him, 2 Sterling Heights officers walked out. One was a Lt. the other the schools DARE officer. Walking up from behind the classroom was the asst. chief. They addressed me by first and last name. They asked if they could have a moment of my time. I said sure but would like to know am I free to go at anytime, and they answered yes of course. We then walked out onto the schools playground. They informed me several parents and the principal called and asked them to respond as they were greatly concerned by me carrying on school property. They stated they spoke with their prosecutor who told them it was a "grey" area of the law. I said no its not and clearly stated both 750.234d and 28.425o and how my only legal means to carry to protect myself and my family on school grounds was to have a CPL and to openly carry. The Lt. stated he never had it explained to him that way and was impressed. He said he was going to ask his prosecutor to request an official AG opinion on it. We continued to talk for about 20 minutes about OC and firearm carry tactics in general. They stated if the AG backed up what I stated they would retrain the entire department and also the school officials would be educated on it. The entire time several parents were watching from their vehicles, and staff was watching out the windows. At the end of our conversation they shook my hand and thanked me for my time and sharing of information and told me to have a great day. I walked away still armed, never asked for ID. I was treated above all expectations and commend the department and those individuals for their professionalism. I will be contacting the city to personally inform them of this positive encounter.
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Interesting, maybe bnext time get a video news interview as you leave school grounds so more folks know about the law there and are not alarmed when viewing lawful conduct.
 
M

mikestilly

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scot623 wrote:
mikestilly said "New people and veteran OC'ers should stick to this very simple process.

You:"Am I being detained?"

Officer: No answer or no.

If that happens simply calmly walk away."

None of this positive outcome would have happened if sprinklerguy28 followed that advice. Do what feels right to you. There is no absolute ONE way to handle every situation.
Click to expand...

Why not bring this comment over to the new how to handle police encounters thread? Please join in the discussion there.

Mike
 
Ruckus

Ruckus

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CV67PAT wrote:
Furthermore, having talked with him and seen him in action, I feel that his resignation from his position from MOC is a great loss of leadership and I would emplore each and every member of MOC to contact the leaders of MOC and ask them to contact sprinklerguy, as I plan on doing, in an attempt to reconcile the "rift" and draw him back into the leadership of the organization.

I believe that sprinklerguy is an asset that the organization needs as a leader, more so than as an individual member acting inividually
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+ 1 x 100
 
S

smallthunder

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Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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sprinklerguy28 wrote:
Walked my son to his classroom yesterday OCing as usual. After saying goodbye to him, 2 Sterling Heights officers walked out. One was a Lt. the other the schools DARE officer. Walking up from behind the classroom was the asst. chief. They addressed me by first and last name. They asked if they could have a moment of my time. I said sure but would like to know am I free to go at anytime, and they answered yes of course. We then walked out onto the schools playground. They informed me several parents and the principal called and asked them to respond as they were greatly concerned by me carrying on school property. They stated they spoke with their prosecutor who told them it was a "grey" area of the law. I said no its not and clearly stated both 750.234d and 28.425o and how my only legal means to carry to protect myself and my family on school grounds was to have a CPL and to openly carry. The Lt. stated he never had it explained to him that way and was impressed. He said he was going to ask his prosecutor to request an official AG opinion on it. We continued to talk for about 20 minutes about OC and firearm carry tactics in general. They stated if the AG backed up what I stated they would retrain the entire department and also the school officials would be educated on it. The entire time several parents were watching from their vehicles, and staff was watching out the windows. At the end of our conversation they shook my hand and thanked me for my time and sharing of information and told me to have a great day. I walked away still armed, never asked for ID. I was treated above all expectations and commend the department and those individuals for their professionalism. I will be contacting the city to personally inform them of this positive encounter.
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1) Where was this at?

2) :celebrate:shock::celebrate:D
 
DanM

DanM

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sprinklerguy28 wrote:
My sincerest thank you to the Sterling Heights Police Department for setting a shining example for other departments to follow.
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Great example of professionallaw enforcement officers and a professional LE department. Kudos to SHPD and to you, Scott!
 
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