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Thread: Popped in the Springs

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    I'll try to keep this as short as I can, but I'll probably fail at that :? And due to the opinion of some that figure thisboard can do without the dramatics, and that this incident has no value, stop reading now. I don't want to waste anyone's time. Nothing to see here, move along......

    It took a lot for me to tell anyone about it, much less a large online community of strangers, who just happen to have the same intrests & ideals as I. If I go into things in my personal life it's not because I'm digressing; everything I write either relates to the incident itself, or is a direct consequence of the incident in question. Later, afterwe've gotten to the crux of the biscuit, I'm letting everyone know about what happened after I got out of jail. It's ugly, and I made some really poor choices.... but none of it should've happened in the first place. So....

    I got out of the Army last year, medically discharged for an injury I obtained in Iraq. I was living in my car because my wife took everything in a bad divorce that same year. The VA's Voc Rehab programgotme into a private tech-school in the Springs so i went there.

    Before & after I arrived in the Springs, when asked none of my Army "battles" would let me have a place to s__t, shower, & shave, untilshortly before the first day of classes. So for most of the time before then, I camped it. Which was fun & not-so-fun, but mostly fun. I love Colorado.

    But in the first place, why didn't I just get a monthly motel room? Because I had everything I owned packed in a VW Beetle TDI, including my fairly large gun collection. And where are most monthly motels located? Finally a guy from my old unit let me stay in his driveway. I know, how does any of this have to do with OC, but please bear with me.

    Fast forward to 29 May 2009. Last day of class. I got to class kinda late because I had to pick up my meds (it ties in), and they were already on a ten-minute break. I was in a huge hurry.

    Getting mycertificationsand I had a job locked in at a very prestigious LBS in Aspen, and a place to stay; it's safe to say I was really anxious to get to class. Grabbed my backpack, went in, got my coffee, and sat down to enjoy the starting lesson.

    Not ten-minutes later three CS cops come in, loudly ask for me, tell me they "want to talk to me for a second. and we go into a side classroom.

    They proceed to ask me if I was talking or thinking about suicide-&-murder, and why i had a gun in my car. With a wad of cops staring at me, hands on whatever (gun,CS, baton)I got pretty anxious. I told thecop doing theasking, "No, No, and f**k no. There's a gun in my car because it's mine, I live in my car, and I have the right to have a gun in it. Go check the law. This is the last day of school, I've been living out of my car for months, and I have a job in Aspen waiting for me. Why would I say something like that?".

    Now, Colorado *does* consider vehicles an extension of the home, and does not require a CWP for carry in vehicles.

    Anyhow, evidently one of the other students who was talking to me after I first pulled up,saw memove (it took a month for anyone there to spot it?) and spot-check/move the .38S&W which was my car-house gun that I kept in the center console, after I finished digging for my folders. When we were going in he told on me (later I found out he claimed I was methodically loading a pistol & talking about murder/suicide.... no lie).

    Instead of one of them going to check (they all have laptops in their crusiers with WiFi or whatever), I was instead frisked, cuffed, told was going to be put in a car"for their safety". And this is where a lack of attention-to-detail got me good.

    The arresting officer then asked me for the keys to my car after walking me down the hill to a cruiser.... and it wasn't a question, I had no choice. He radioe'd it up; at which point they then grabbed my backpack, and after coming outside one of them reached in and pulled out my nice 9mm, which I forgot I had put there after shooting up at Rampart the day before.

    In my defense, when it's getting late and you head down for fast food and it's going all over the place, the passenger seat was my table, and I didn't want to throw my nice polished steel Tokarev 9mm on the floor. Open backpack, dirty floor, or on my lap. Then it was out-of-site-out-of-mind until a CS cop pulled it out.

    Ok. I admit it was totally idiotic to bring a gun into a school... but I honest-to-everything-that-people-pray-to, forgot it was in there; last day, running late, AND my medswere kicking in.
    But I wasn't breaking any law to begin with that'd give the police probably cause,even for the 9mm-in-backpack.THAT would've been up to the discretion of the school. And they arrestedme for the .38BEFORE they found my9mm

    I wasn't even told I had been arrested until the cop came back to the car to get my key & check the statutes (I saw him do it, I could read the laptop screen), and then ask me for the keys to the car. I told him. And ashe was perusing the statutes ona CCW offence, they found my9mm At this point I was baking in a hot-as-s**t cruiser, cuffed, in pain, and really anxious. When they pulled out the 9mm, i guess they heard methe "F**K!" from the bottom of the hill,and at that point i lost it.Theyeven called an ambulance &EMPs cause I wast totallyincoherent. They evenkeptasking if I was onmeth because my heart-rate wasrocketing. By the time the firetruck, EMP truck and ambulance arrived, I had calmed down a little. Before they put me in the ambulance, I heard an EMP say to one of the officers,"yeah, meth". (I gota $7800 bill for the ambulance ride, the EMP's time, and a short trip to the hospital.)

    And sothey stuck me in CDC, got slapped with a $100,000 bond, and there I sat.

    Ok, I won't get much into what happened in CDC except thatlegally, I had been charged with an F6 felony, which has a maximum bond of like $3500. And once I was in there, they "give" me my meds because they were narcotics. I desperately told them I need them, because I got f**ked up in Iraq and it's not like they're recreational, and if I stop taking them I'll have withdraws & have seizures. I was told that there was no way Iwas going to get those meds,"so deal with it". So I had a hard withdrawal and a couple seizures in there. At one point I guess I was flopping on the concrete floor, the duty guard just sat at his station, and he didn't get up & call for help until the other inmates were telling him I was having seizures. Eventually I detoxed, but the reason I was on those meds came back with sobriety. I'll say this, those steel racks didn't do *anything* for me at night. I so wanted to take it to trial, but I would've been in there at *least* another six months. Between winning the large fight and my physical well being, well...

    I AM NOT GOING TO POSTTHE ARREST REPORT PUBLICLY.
    IfanOCDO memberquestions me at my word in this, then I'll be HAPPY to PM them a copy of the arrest report. I'll even throw in the state's case against me too.

    I don't know how many statutes that cop broke, but they even went so far as to violate theSecond,Fourth & Eighth Amendments.

    If I had taken it to trial, my case would've been thrown out in a heartbeat. My lawyer worked as hard as he could, but the DA therekept dodging him or would deny the motions made to dismiss....... and the judge I was assigned to was going on vacation for a month! But I took a plea. It wasn't really a choice. I NEEDED to get out of there and get taken care of. I supposedly got off easy, but not really.

    It shouldn't have even went down like that in the first place.

    Before everyone startspointing out that I had parked next to a school loaded with guns; it was a privately-owned tech school, and to adhere to the 2000ft rule, that meant I'd have to walk, up-hill, and I got blasted by an IED in march of 2004 which f**ked up general walking skills, and I was NOT going to walk up that damn hill to get to school. I had asked the school's owner if I could park up front and he totally agreed. And for as many times as he'd walked past my car every morning, I don't know how he didn't notice my .38 poking out, the multiple NRA and 2nd Amd. stickers, or that just about everyone inclass knew my story and that I went shooting up at Rampart sometimes after school. And why I didn't just throw it under a seat or whatever before getting out.... I don't know. It just wasn't high enoughon my brain's list of essential tasks at that time.

    Why am I bringing this out now, almost a year later?

    Look, this is ahighly embarrassing event in my life, and I was veryreluctant to post it up here. The OCDO community is the only group that I was a participating member of concerning gun, and with EVERY FIBER of me, I want to make it known that a Colorado Springs police-officer arrested me for something that was completely legal. And that the county of El Paso, the 10th District Court District Attorneyof El Paso County, and the Colorado Department of Corrections violated my civil rights.
    I'm not seeking any money or reparations from either Colorado Springs, or the State of Colorado....

    All I want to happen, is to make sure it never happens to aveteranOR regularcitizen again.

    And for me, personally.... what was taken from me, without cause, in front of all of my classmates, atone of the most prestigious tech schools in thebicycle industry. That completely dishonored my name, and destroyedany chance at living my dream along with the dream itself. All for an incompetent cop anda mindless mistake.

    In lieu of that, I want my life back.

    As an adjunct; the rest of my guns which were entrusted to an active duty soldier who was a friend, have since disappeared. His command knows, but I haven't gotten word from them yet.

    So if anyone in the Springs, or a buyer buying from a seller in theSprings,made a private or pawn-shop purchase ofa Bulgarian SLR-95, a once-fired new CETME, a Polish Tokarev TT-33, and one (or both) of my Nagant rifles, after 1 June 09 and 14 Nov 09...... I'dappreciate it if you'd please check with me the serials. The rest of thelot Idon't really have much invested in them, but the SLR-95 was willed to me bymy nowex-father-in-law,just before he died.And that man was my friend.

    I hadn't reported them as stolen because Ihad left them with a "trusted" friend in my old unit, and had beenassured they weresafe and would be shipped to my parents.

    Note: Thread edited for brevity, and information redundantto the topic at hand removed.



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    A phrase comes to mind, an aphorism, the last word of which is "tatooed". Many here on OCDO are very proud of their tatoos.

    Screwed, blued and tattooed!

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    I'm already tatted up. Back piece and everything.

    Thanks for your pithy comments. They'll add a lot to this discussion I'm sure.

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    That does not sound like you deserved to be treated the way you were. I'm an Army veteran myself and while I did not have the issues you did, I do understand how hard the transition to civillian life can be. The way our veterans are treated in these situations is unexusable. The VA, VFW, and american legion have several programs to help you transition and can even provide employment assistance. I would check with the local VA center and see if they can help you.

    As far as having weapons in your car, I believe your car should be an extension of your home. Many states do treat it this way unfortunately there are those who don't. That is something I had to get used to when I moved to Washington from New Mexico. I couldn't believe I now need a concealed weapons permit to have a gun in my car. But like the rest of us law abiding citizens I jumped through their BS hoop in order to be able to protect myself.

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    my car was my home

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    I want to be sympathetic but $7800 for an ambulance ride (I don't know what an EMP is) is way off the charts based on my personal knowledge of EMS billing rates. More like $350 to $1000 based on what exactly they did for you in the medic.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    EMParamedic

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    They also kept me at the hospital for "observation" for a couple hours, brought in a social worker because i was a homeless vet, and did some tests to see if i was under the influence (duh, I *told* them I had to take morphine regularly, among other things, for my war injury), because the paramedic said I was probably on meth.
    All of that was somehow required for what basically amounted to a really bad panic attack (or whatever you call it when you see your whole life get destroyed in a single instant).

    Just like CDC being a HUGE money-maker for the county, Memorial hospital is a huge price-gouger as well. Hmmmmmm.

    EMP - Emergency Medical Personel (sorry, its what we called first-responders.

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    If I'm not mistaken , and you were discharged honorably, and with a purple heart, you can go to any military installation and recieve legal assistance on the spot. Do you have GI Bill ?

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    You are every soldier's worst fear, that the country we fought for and gave years of our lives away for would leave us in the wind like they did to too many of our Vietnam brothers. Talk with the local VA and I'm assuming you have access to Google since you can post on here, start looking for veteran assistance in your local area. There are tons of organizations these days to help veterans out you just need to look.

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    Ok, just to answer the other question I'm sure will be asked; I was an M2 gunner for eight months on M998 hillbilly up armored HMMWVs, and we did convoy protection. I only did my real job as a 63B at the motorpool for five, maybe six months out of our thirteen month spent downrange.
    Yes, I was dischared honorably. No, I didn't get a Purple Heart (I didn't get hit by shrapnel, so not qualified), and no I can't go to the Army hospital because my disability rating wasn't high enough.

    But lets not focus on how I became a homeless vet, rather the stone cold fact that a CSPD officer arrested me for something that wasn't an arrestable offense. Yes I brought a gun into the class room. Go ahead & crucify me for that; I fully deserve it and won't argue against it, even though I had forgotten the Tokarev was in that backpack. Had that lying hoplophobe (who recanted his story shortly after I'd been stuck in CDC) not seen that .38, I would've found my 9mm buried in my backpack, likely s**t myself, and promptly taken it back to my car. Nobody would've known, I would've taken my final exams & gotten my certifications, and I'd be living in Aspen totally living my dream.

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    What kind of school. did yo bring the gun into, K-12? Are post 12 schools unlawfull for carry in your state or just admin. policy?

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    Take the lying hoplophobe to civil court and live off of his dream.

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    it was a tech school for bicycle mechanic certifications.

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    How is that a felony? What part of your actions is being labled a felony?

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    Can you post the police report? I'd like to see it and find out in their own words why they were called.

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    Having a firearm in a school is the felony. The carrying concealed weapon is a misdemeanor, and was for the .38 in my car. That's what they had been called about & I had been arrested for..... except I wasn't doing anything illegal. Not only is it legal to have a gun in a vehicle without a CWP, that place wasn't a school-school. Read the Fed law on privately owned schools, they're exempt from the 2000ft rule. I knew that then, and even had both laws printed out, in my dash for just such an occassion.
    They searched my things *after* I had already been arrested. I wouldn't have given my consent to search if I hadn't been, because I knew I wasn't breaking any laws. I'll find the report and post it. It's a pretty interesting story. The arresting officer put me in his car first and demanded my keys. He was in the process of looking up & reading the statute for firearms in vehicles when the other officers searched my things & found the nine.
    Speaking of which; the guy who said he'd heard me "talking about murder/suicide" changed his story after I'd been locked up for a couple weeks, wouldn't show up to any of the hearings or talk to my lawyer, and the owners of the tech school told my lawyer and the court they'd never wanted any of this in the first place. Sorry, can't uncrack an egg, people.

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    I believe a private k-12 school is covered under the federal law, but you say it was a post k-12 school, which I don't think is covered. This whole story sounds wierd.

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    Flyer22 wrote:
    Can you post the police report? I'd like to see it and find out in their own words why they were called.
    No Joke. Look, OP, I get a heart wrenching feeling when I read your story. If you can get together with our group and meet me in person; I would be more than willing to help you out with actual dollars. God Bless.

    In our Colorado forum section, Co. Springs is PRAISED for open carry and the PD is extremely tolerant, as reported. This story comes as a surprise to me; but given the circumstances, I would like to hear more about your story, before passing judgment.

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    Read my posts again. It was a privately-owned Tech school. It has nothing to do with K-12.

    If it HAD been a K-12 school, believe you me that I would've parked 2000ft away.

    Go read thelaws. I wasfully within my right topark on school property.

    In fact, it wasn't even illegal to have a firearm inside that school.To doanything, the owner hadthe discretion topress charges. He didn't even have time to tell them to arrest me, since they already had within5min of arriving. The owners even came to my plea hearing to tell the judge that they hadn't wanted me arrested, only to have me leave!

    I'd probably be 99% right to guess that they officers told the owner that it was illegal for me to have a gun blah blah blah and that they were arresting me for those things.


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    cscitney87 wrote:
    Flyer22 wrote:
    In our Colorado forum section, Co. Springs is PRAISED for open carry and the PD is extremely tolerant, as reported. This story comes as a surprise to me; but given the circumstances, I would like to hear more about your story, before passing judgment.


    I KNEW THAT.

    I'd had NO issues with open carry or anything when I'd pass a cop (city, state, and sherriff) in the Springs before. And that happened quite a few times. I hadn't even been questioned about it in passing!
    THE DAY BEFORE, I got pulled over for speeding outside Woodland Park by a sherriff (The first ticket I've ever gotten), and he handled the situation very professionally. If I can find it, I'll even send a copy of that tothose that ask.

    Look, I know there's trolls who've come up here going all "woe is me", or "I got shafted and it wasn't my fault", and then they get cought in a lie OR won't provide documentation on it. I was aware of that, when I posted this event on OCDO. I'm not a newcomer, and I knew that documentation of the eventwould be requested by the forum beforehand. I started looking for them BEFORE I even posted here.
    ___________________________________

    SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT....
    I lost everything as result of that arrest. When I walked out, I went downhill. I had no car,no a place to stay (myArmy "friends" didn't want anything to do with me), and nothing butthe clothes on my back andmy$1000 infederal savings bonds.... and when I got kicked out I was a still withdrawing fromthe healthy opiate dependency that I had before going in. I roughed it where Tent City is for a couple days, found a verylow-rent pad and my friendly neighborhood dealer. I'm sure everyone here knows what happened after that.

    Igot through thataliveweren't it forthegraces of asocial-worker forPikes Peak Veterans Assistance (Mr. Lindsey, RichCMSgt, ret. Ph# available on request), which specializes in at-risk or incarcerated veterans.

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    What are you looking for if not compensation from the municipality/officers that were involved? The way to prevent future such occurrences is through appropriate actions i.e. suit.

    Beyond that, I am not sure how you expect or hope for us to respond.

    How long ago did this take place?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    What are you looking for if not compensation from the municipality/officers that were involved? The way to prevent future such occurrences is through appropriate actions i.e. suit.

    Beyond that, I am not sure how you expect or hope for us to respond.

    How long ago did this take place?

    Yata hey
    You obviously didn't really read my initial posting(s), nor the last before yours.

    I won't quantify questions which are so obviously flawed.

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    AnaxImperator wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    What are you looking for if not compensation from the municipality/officers that were involved? The way to prevent future such occurrences is through appropriate actions i.e. suit.

    Beyond that, I am not sure how you expect or hope for us to respond.

    How long ago did this take place?

    Yata hey
    You obviously didn't really read my initial posting(s), nor the last before yours.

    I won't quantify questions which are so obviously flawed.
    Well now, ask a straight question, get a crooked answer.

    Read every word of the thread, so don't throw the "obvious" card.

    You've found the papers - great..............and?

    You've said you aren't pursuing action...............and?

    You've moved on......................and?

    What is the point of this thread beyond expressing your frustration and ranting?

    Again - how long ago did this alleged incident occur?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Alright I'm throwing out the BS flag! Something about this whole thread is screamin in the back of my mind BS!

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