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Thread: Pulled over, cuffed, and detained for officer safety...

  1. #1
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    I was driving home at about 1am on Saturday night. I passed by a patrol car, stoppedin the right lane of two lanes in my direction. He turned around to drive away and then turned around again to follow, me as I stopped at a light. A hundred feet up the road his lights came on and he pulled me over.

    Having just been out with friends, I had earlier taken my gun-in-holster from the trunk and put it in the front seat next to me as I drove. I just didn't fee like putting it on at the time (cold holster). When I was pulled over, I was nervous that the officer might see the gun in the passenger seat and it would become a life-or-death, gun-drawn scenario (on his part). As I pulled over, I discretely put my gun on the floor directly in front of my driver's seat.

    He came up to my window and told me that he pulled me over because my license plate light was out. My hands were in plain sight on the top of the steering wheel. He asked if I had any weapons. I told him there was a gun on the floor in front of my seat. He requested that I exit the car and I did what he asked. He brought me to the rear of my car, placed me in handcuffs, and had me sit on the bumper of the cruiser. He was polite and repeated several times that he is doing this for his safety. He also stated many times that he supports the rights of law-abiding citizens carrying guns. He asked for my info verbally and called it all in. My info came back clean (of course) and he got confirmation that I have a valid CPL. He never asked to see either my WADL or CPL. He then went to my car, took my gun, and put it in my trunk. I was released from handcuffs. He thanked me several times for my cooperation and told me to fix my license plate light. He said he was out "hunting" for people who are illegal in some way. I knew what he meant. I did not argue with the cop or resist/protest in any way. Even though it was freezing and I was shivering at the end of the encounter, I believe he was within his rights to do what he did.

    Here's where he went outside of his duties.... I got home and went to the rear of my car. I have not 1 but 2 lights over my license plate. BOTH of them were working properly and have also been working consistently since that night. I'm thinking he had no reason to pull me over and made the story up. I was pulled over about 6 months ago, also after midnight, about 50 feet away from that spot for another BS reason (that cop said it looked like I took a corner fast, but I was driving normally).

    The economy is bad and I think cops are "hunting" (as he put it), searching for anybody breaking any tiny law to raise tax revenue. Pisses me off.
    IBTL

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    This is why, when you leave your vehicle, it gets locked and doesn't get unlocked without a court order. The existence of a gun in a car is not RAS for entering the vehicle, removing the gun, and replacing it somewhere else in the vehicle.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I had a stater pull me over in aberdeen once, told me the turn signal bulb was to white, not yellow enough. I told him that was the factory bulb that came with the car when I bought it brand new, and it still looked yellow to me. I think the Stater was on crack.
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    This is another shining example why I don't like cops. They will lie through their teeth in order to falsely justify pulling you over and violating your rights. He did not have the right to do what he did. If your lights were working and you were driving within the rules, he should not be pulling you over. He should also not be taking you out of the vehicle, handcuffing you and looking in your vehicle for a plate light. That cop is as crooked as they come.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    With all due respect to ShooterMcGavin either this was a totally illegal stop or it is BS.

    1) No reason to pull over the vehicle if his reason was a license plate bulb out. If he took you around to the back of the car it should have been noted right there. I definately would of noticed and at that point asked for a supervisor and called his bluff.

    2) This is one reason you should have a digital recorder with you.

    3) You should not disclose that you have a weapon with you, simply state "what seems to be the problem officer?" Give him your DL, proof if insurance, registration. That is all that is required at a traffic stop. "Can I step out of my car and take a look at the license plate lights?" Get out and lock the car behind you. No warrant, no RAS, no PC, no entry.

    3)For officer safety? You told him where the weapon was and it was left in the car, yet he handcuffed you outside of the car? That is a poor sequence of events. Did he pat you down as well?

    There are plenty of real violations (speeding, actual equiptment failure) to be pulled over. Do I believe they are increasing emphasis to generate revenue? Yes.


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    antispam540 wrote:
    This is why, when you leave your vehicle, it gets locked and doesn't get unlocked without a court order. The existence of a gun in a car is not RAS for entering the vehicle, removing the gun, and replacing it somewhere else in the vehicle.
    I totally agree. As I exited the vehicle, I took the keys from the ignition. I was about to shut the door and lock the car and the cop ordered that I "drop the keys".

    gogodawgs wrote:
    With all due respect to ShooterMcGavin either this was a totally illegal stop or it is BS.

    1) No reason to pull over the vehicle if his reason was a license plate bulb out. If he took you around to the back of the car it should have been noted right there. I definately would of noticed and at that point asked for a supervisor and called his bluff.

    2) This is one reason you should have a digital recorder with you.

    3) You should not disclose that you have a weapon with you, simply state "what seems to be the problem officer?" Give him your DL, proof if insurance, registration. That is all that is required at a traffic stop. "Can I step out of my car and take a look at the license plate lights?" Get out and lock the car behind you. No warrant, no RAS, no PC, no entry.

    3)For officer safety? You told him where the weapon was and it was left in the car, yet he handcuffed you outside of the car? That is a poor sequence of events. Did he pat you down as well?

    There are plenty of real violations (speeding, actual equiptment failure) to be pulled over. Do I believe they are increasing emphasis to generate revenue? Yes.

    The story isn't BS, but the stop was.

    I don't carry a voice recorder unless I am OCing.

    My license was in the back seat. He did not want me to reach to get it.

    I do wish that I had checked out the lights while he was standing there.

    He didn't do a real pat-down. He just touched my belt-region along my back. I could have had anything in my pockets.


    RE: Not disclosing that you have any weapons...

    I am not sure how to do that. If you respond by asking what the problem is, once he has answered your question he will likely ask if you have weapons again. I believe it is illegal to lie to a cop (even though they can legally lie to you as much as they want).
    IBTL

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Fair enough. I would recommend a couple of things. Carry your voice recorder in the car and when you OC.

    A call to the Police Chief/Sheriff expressing your concern for the illegal stop. All evidence would be thrown out if an individual was cited since the stop was on it's face illegal.

    Be prepared in even the most mundane of traffic stops.

    While I agree that an officer can go 'hunting' for problems and bad guys, they need to be held accountable to a real infraction.


    As far as responding to his question about weapons, you can ask him a question or simply remain silent on the issue.
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    The cop actually showed up at my window very quickly. The window hadn't even finished rolling down. If I had a recorder, I would not have had time to grab it from the door pocket and turn it on. I'm not arguing with you. It's good advice. Just thinking outloud that the cop would probably stop me from starting the recording.

    I don't know this officer's name. Should I place a call to the Police Chief regarding this stop?
    IBTL

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    The cop actually showed up at my window very quickly. The window hadn't even finished rolling down. If I had a recorder, I would not have had time to grab it from the door pocket and turn it on. I'm not arguing with you. It's good advice. Just thinking outloud that the cop would probably stop me from starting the recording.

    I don't know this officer's name. Should I place a call to the Police Chief regarding this stop?

    Nothing says you have to roll it down immediately. Nor do you have to roll it down all the way. You can roll it down just enough to hand him your ID.

    He can not prevent you from starting a recording.

    I would call and express concern of the nature of the stop, i.e. all of your equiptment is in working order.

    Also, I would encourage you to watch this and use some of the techniques.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjM...mp;feature=fvw
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    If they keep you from locking your car, you can always say you don't consent to a search of your vehicle.

    Then again, they could always just say you consented.

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    gogodawgs wrote:
    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    The cop actually showed up at my window very quickly. The window hadn't even finished rolling down. If I had a recorder, I would not have had time to grab it from the door pocket and turn it on. I'm not arguing with you. It's good advice. Just thinking outloud that the cop would probably stop me from starting the recording.

    I don't know this officer's name. Should I place a call to the Police Chief regarding this stop?

    Nothing says you have to roll it down immediately. Nor do you have to roll it down all the way. You can roll it down just enough to hand him your ID.

    He can not prevent you from starting a recording.

    I would call and express concern of the nature of the stop, i.e. all of your equiptment is in working order.

    Also, I would encourage you to watch this and use some of the techniques.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjM...mp;feature=fvw
    Thanks for that video link. I have watched that video many times and I have a copy on my computer.

    I agree, I didn't have to roll the window the whole way, but I wasn't hiding my breath or smoke or anything else. It was convenient for me.

    I don't know if I agree with him not being able to stop a recording. Cops can make evidence disappear. If it's in plain view, I'd imagine he's object and then take the recorder.

    If you take the car keys with you and, as you close and begin to lock the door, the cop yells "DROP THE KEYS". I'm not really in a position to argue or resist. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I could have hit the door lock on the way out, but I didn't think of it at the moment.

    Or, after grabbing your keys you start to put them in your pocket, the cop can prevent you from putting your hand in your pocket (fear for officer safety) and can take the keys because they are a weapon in your hand (as he handcuffs you). Is this realistic or am I way off base and in fantasy land now?
    IBTL

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    If I understand the laws correctly, if you have a cpl you can have a loaded gun in your car any where you want.

    Always, always drive with your doors locked.
    When you're pulled over, only roll the window down enough that you can pass your papers back and forth and that the officer can hear you ok. (1")

    Even better would be to get out of the car and lock the door behind you before the po-po gets to your door. But do so in a non-threatening way.

    Dont answer any questions that can incriminate you.

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    I'd just hit the door lock button on my keys or on the door just as i open it, that way it's locked for when i close it with my knee or foot if i'm keeping my hands up as I get out.

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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    antispam540 wrote:
    This is why, when you leave your vehicle, it gets locked and doesn't get unlocked without a court order. The existence of a gun in a car is not RAS for entering the vehicle, removing the gun, and replacing it somewhere else in the vehicle.
    I totally agree. As I exited the vehicle, I took the keys from the ignition. I was about to shut the door and lock the car and the cop ordered that I "drop the keys.
    <smartass> So you drop the keys right in your pocket. Technically your following his orders. </smartass>
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    He asked if I had any weapons.
    Officer I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon.......


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    M1Gunr wrote:
    He asked if I had any weapons.
    Officer I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon.......
    i have NO illegal weapons!
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    SayWhat wrote:
    If I understand the laws correctly, if you have a cpl you can have a loaded gun in your car any where you want.

    Always, always drive with your doors locked.
    When you're pulled over, only roll the window down enough that you can pass your papers back and forth and that the officer can hear you ok. (1")

    Even better would be to get out of the car and lock the door behind you before the po-po gets to your door. But do so in a non-threatening way.

    Dont answer any questions that can incriminate you.
    -Yes, I believe a CPL allows you to carry a gun anywhere in the vehicle.

    -I do always drive with my doors locked. When I turn my ignition off, my doors automatically unlock. It's a feature that I do not like. If I am sitting in my car for any length of time before I exit, I will re-lock the doors.

    -No, I will not get out of the car before the officer approaches. I have heard of a friend who had a cop draw his gun on him because he started to exit the car as the cop was getting out of his car.

    1245A Defender wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    He asked if I had any weapons.
    Officer I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon.......
    i have NO illegal weapons!
    Yeah, good point. Then, redirect the conversation.
    IBTL

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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    SayWhat wrote:
    If I understand the laws correctly, if you have a cpl you can have a loaded gun in your car any where you want.

    Always, always drive with your doors locked.
    When you're pulled over, only roll the window down enough that you can pass your papers back and forth and that the officer can hear you ok. (1")

    Even better would be to get out of the car and lock the door behind you before the po-po gets to your door. But do so in a non-threatening way.

    Dont answer any questions that can incriminate you.
    -Yes, I believe a CPL allows you to carry a gun anywhere in the vehicle.

    -I do always drive with my doors locked. When I turn my ignition off, my doors automatically unlock. It's a feature that I do not like. If I am sitting in my car for any length of time before I exit, I will re-lock the doors.

    -No, I will not get out of the car before the officer approaches. I have heard of a friend who had a cop draw his gun on him because he started to exit the car as the cop was getting out of his car.

    1245A Defender wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    He asked if I had any weapons.
    Officer I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon.......
    i have NO illegal weapons!
    Yeah, good point.* Then, redirect the conversation.
    you should be able to disable the lock unlock door feature on your car. google the make and model and power door locks.

    Dodges are something like, turn the key to accessory, turn it back to off then back to accessory then hit the power lock button then back off.. something like that.

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    How did he aquire the ability to open your trunk?

    Surely, you did not consent to him putting the gunthere? Once the trunk is open plain-view search doctrine applies--see the Busted video segment about the cops asking to come inside during a party and the young woman politely refusing entry.

    Busted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
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    SayWhat wrote:

    Dont answer any questions that can incriminate you.
    Or, just don't answer any question you are not legally required to answer, not just questions that have answers that would incriminate you.

    Where you headed? Don't matter, officer.
    Where you coming from? Don't matter, officer.
    What you doing at this time of- Don't matter, officer.
    License and registration and proof of insurance-Slide thru window opening.
    Whose your passenger? Don't matter. Unless you seem him/her commit a crime...



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    Amazing, time to buy and use a voice recorder. The lady has been urging me to do so anyways.

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    To the OP: not gonna ask the name of the agency, but local PD or SO? No way it was WSP.

    Problem is, he can't say he pulled you over for no license plate light when his dash-cam would belie that reason for the stop.
    cops. They will lie through their teeth in order to falsely justify pulling you over and violating your rights.
    Sigh. Yep, statements such as this will go a long way in garnering law enforcement support for this particular forum of the RKBA movement.

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    The cop actually showed up at my window very quickly. The window hadn't even finished rolling down. If I had a recorder, I would not have had time to grab it from the door pocket and turn it on. I'm not arguing with you. It's good advice. Just thinking outloud that the cop would probably stop me from starting the recording.

    I don't know this officer's name. Should I place a call to the Police Chief regarding this stop?

    Nothing says you have to roll it down immediately. Nor do you have to roll it down all the way. You can roll it down just enough to hand him your ID.

    He can not prevent you from starting a recording.

    I would call and express concern of the nature of the stop, i.e. all of your equiptment is in working order.

    Also, I would encourage you to watch this and use some of the techniques.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjM...mp;feature=fvw
    Fiddling around (which is a technical legal term) with a voice recorder as the officer approaches might just be regarded as furtive movements practically guaranteed to escalate the situation. Also, if there is any possibility that the officer might be able to see the gun you are far better off telling him/her that it's there. Just my $.04 (inflation, don't ya know).


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    Shooter, I have to ask as well: where was this and what agency pulled you over? City, county, state?

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    Bo wrote:
    Problem is, he can't say he pulled you over for no license plate light when his dash-cam would belie that reason for the stop.
    cops. They will lie through their teeth in order to falsely justify pulling you over and violating your rights.
    Sigh. Yep, statements such as this will go a long way in garnering law enforcement support for this particular forum of the RKBA movement.
    There have been cases where, when requested, said dash-cam footage "goes missing".

    I'm stuck between being respectful of the difficult position officers are in and being absolutely furious at the way some of them abuse their power and ignore the law.

    All I can suggest is that people who have positive encounters post them too. What should we do to garner law enforcement support for these forums? How far should we go? Do we pretend everything's okay, that they're all shining examples of professionalism and justice who never lie?

    I say posting negative encounters is just as important as posting positive ones. Officers who use their position to abuse law-abiding citizens deserve every scrap of bad publicity we can give them, and if the good police out there don't like how it reflects upon them, maybe they should do something about the bad apples in their own ranks, instead of letting review boards rule that "the officer's actions were justified" and prosecutors decline to file charges.

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