mikestilly
Regular Member
imported post
I feel this thread is extremely important. I feel many people especially people are are new to open carry feel that it's worthwhile to have roadside debates, explaining the laws,etc. with officers who stop people for open carrying. It's not your job to train officers on open carry and the worst time to think about this is when you are under investigation.
The reason an officer stops a person who is open carrying is to investigate the OC'er. Once stopped you should automatically consider it a detainment and an encounter. Your goal should be one thing to get out of the situation without charges, or worse.
The only sure way to protect your rights is to ask the officer one simple question.
"Am I being detained?"
Many officers will not answer or even say no. Which is fine. If that happens simply calmly walk away. If they stop you from leaving which most likely they will then you are automatically considered detained anyways. Once they start firing every question under the sun you make one statement.
"If you want to ask me questions you will need to speak with my lawyer."
They will not like this. Most likely they will get angry and try everything under the sun to get you to give up your rights and sing like a canary. Please believe me when I say it's not a good thing to try and "school, train, teach,etc" the officer on Michigan Laws. Even a casual conversation is not advised. Simply DO NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE. You didn't break the law by shutting up. The moment you start talking is the point at which you've opened the door for further violations of your rights. The average person says way too much especially when their nervous. Believe me I know I do.
Now I'm not saying that educating the public, police officers, anyone you possibly can talk to about the open carrying of a handgun is off limits. Most of us know that it's a key aspect of what we're trying to do. What I'm trying to say is that there is a time and a place for everything. During a police investigation in which you are the suspect or even the witness or the victim you should speak to a lawyer before making statements to the police. Always keep in mind that victims and witnesses can be turned in to suspects at the drop of a dime.
Please don't see this thread as a anti-police, anti-law enforcement, anti anything thread. It couldn't be farther from the truth. If we were anti-police why would we take the time to send packets of information over departments all over the state. If we were anti then why would many of us contact the departments in which we have an encounter and speak to supervisors and even the officers at the stations. I'm friends with several police officers, one I just happened to have been friends with since high school (20 years now). I was great friends with an officer who worked part time with me as a street cop who ended up on SWAT. This thread is about protecting your rights. Just like I dont rely on officers to protect my family from attack I also don't relay on them to protect my rights. It's right up there with the same reason you don't give random people who call your house your social security number.
New people and veteran OC'ers should stick to this very simple process.
You:"Am I being detained?"
Officer: No answer or no.
If that happens simply calmly walk away.
If they stop you from leaving, stop. Once they start firing every question under the sun you make one statement.
Answer one time by saying: If you want to ask me questions you will need to speak with my lawyer.
If you feel I'm bias that's fine. Don't take my word for it maybe this professor will help you see the light. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865&hl=en#
Still not convince? Call any civil rights attorney in the USA.
*** Please note that this strategy is for open carrying and not driving a vehicle. Driving a vehicle is considered concealed in Michigan and you must disclose but same rules apply after you disclose.***
I feel this thread is extremely important. I feel many people especially people are are new to open carry feel that it's worthwhile to have roadside debates, explaining the laws,etc. with officers who stop people for open carrying. It's not your job to train officers on open carry and the worst time to think about this is when you are under investigation.
The reason an officer stops a person who is open carrying is to investigate the OC'er. Once stopped you should automatically consider it a detainment and an encounter. Your goal should be one thing to get out of the situation without charges, or worse.
The only sure way to protect your rights is to ask the officer one simple question.
"Am I being detained?"
Many officers will not answer or even say no. Which is fine. If that happens simply calmly walk away. If they stop you from leaving which most likely they will then you are automatically considered detained anyways. Once they start firing every question under the sun you make one statement.
"If you want to ask me questions you will need to speak with my lawyer."
They will not like this. Most likely they will get angry and try everything under the sun to get you to give up your rights and sing like a canary. Please believe me when I say it's not a good thing to try and "school, train, teach,etc" the officer on Michigan Laws. Even a casual conversation is not advised. Simply DO NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE. You didn't break the law by shutting up. The moment you start talking is the point at which you've opened the door for further violations of your rights. The average person says way too much especially when their nervous. Believe me I know I do.
Now I'm not saying that educating the public, police officers, anyone you possibly can talk to about the open carrying of a handgun is off limits. Most of us know that it's a key aspect of what we're trying to do. What I'm trying to say is that there is a time and a place for everything. During a police investigation in which you are the suspect or even the witness or the victim you should speak to a lawyer before making statements to the police. Always keep in mind that victims and witnesses can be turned in to suspects at the drop of a dime.
Please don't see this thread as a anti-police, anti-law enforcement, anti anything thread. It couldn't be farther from the truth. If we were anti-police why would we take the time to send packets of information over departments all over the state. If we were anti then why would many of us contact the departments in which we have an encounter and speak to supervisors and even the officers at the stations. I'm friends with several police officers, one I just happened to have been friends with since high school (20 years now). I was great friends with an officer who worked part time with me as a street cop who ended up on SWAT. This thread is about protecting your rights. Just like I dont rely on officers to protect my family from attack I also don't relay on them to protect my rights. It's right up there with the same reason you don't give random people who call your house your social security number.
New people and veteran OC'ers should stick to this very simple process.
You:"Am I being detained?"
Officer: No answer or no.
If that happens simply calmly walk away.
If they stop you from leaving, stop. Once they start firing every question under the sun you make one statement.
Answer one time by saying: If you want to ask me questions you will need to speak with my lawyer.
If you feel I'm bias that's fine. Don't take my word for it maybe this professor will help you see the light. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865&hl=en#
Still not convince? Call any civil rights attorney in the USA.
*** Please note that this strategy is for open carrying and not driving a vehicle. Driving a vehicle is considered concealed in Michigan and you must disclose but same rules apply after you disclose.***
