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Thread: Knife-Wielding Attacker Shot Dead

  1. #1
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    Although I looked and couldn't find this posted here, I apologize if I missed it and it was already posted.

    http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-man-wi...,2103052.story

    It does not say whether the man was open carrying or concealed carrying but he was carrying nonetheless and I think that is the important thing. I think the other important thing to take away from this news story is that it provides real world example of the mentality of law-abiding gun owners when it comes to carrying for defense. The man in the story didn't attempt to confront the knife wielding man in the parking lot like some vigilante, but only used his sidearm when the man attempted to attack him as he was trying to leave the area.

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    jaydog wrote:
    Although I looked and couldn't find this posted here, I apologize if I missed it and it was already posted.

    http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-man-wi...,2103052.story

    It does not say whether the man was open carrying or concealed carrying but he was carrying nonetheless and I think that is the important thing. I think the other important thing to take away from this news story is that it provides real world example of the mentality of law-abiding gun owners when it comes to carrying for defense. The man in the story didn't attempt to confront the knife wielding man in the parking lot like some vigilante, but only used his sidearm when the man attempted to attack him as he was trying to leave the area.
    And this has to do with California how?

    This should probably be posted in the Tennessee forum. The California forum is for discussing issues that deal with or have some relevance to Open Carry inCalifornia.

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    My apologies, you a probably right...I just bookmarked the California section and when I posted this just forgot about the "greater" forum at large as I had been spending most of my time here...if a moderator wants to move the topic or remove it since it was already discussed in the appropriate section that would be fine.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Your new, you'll get the hang of it after a while.

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    jaydog wrote:
    Although I looked and couldn't find this posted here, I apologize if I missed it and it was already posted.

    http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-man-wi...,2103052.story

    It does not say whether the man was open carrying or concealed carrying but he was carrying nonetheless and I think that is the important thing. I think the other important thing to take away from this news story is that it provides real world example of the mentality of law-abiding gun owners when it comes to carrying for defense. The man in the story didn't attempt to confront the knife wielding man in the parking lot like some vigilante, but only used his sidearm when the man attempted to attack him as he was trying to leave the area.
    It does not say whether the man was open carrying or concealed

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    Or how close he was to a schoolbus stop.

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    yelohamr wrote:
    Or how close he was to a schoolbus stop.

    Once again; from the OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum Rules:
    If you think the post is questionable, please don't post it. Thanks!
    #7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    So, what's your purpose and intentions are you doing here? Last time I checked you wrote “just experience”. We the members beside you, don't needs your psycho experienced for your doing the experiences on us. I noticed you always jumping to conclusions to come to a conclusion prematurely, without sufficient thought or on incomplete evidence.


    Now, please back your claim upabout the 'how close he was to a schoolbus stop'on this topic and without doing an experience on us.

    Thank you.

    DISCLAIMER
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    jpierce, Pace, anddirtykoala(are wrongfully accused me as a spammer, anti-law enforcement and commercial sales), acting gods like PincheOgro1or experts in a given field like yelohamris doing an experience on us andthere is no way to verify that fact or that they are correct. Therefore, any and all advice you glean from this forum should be independently verified!

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    I will say this, I bet you the shooter didn't have to load his gun in order to protect him self either, how about that for some level of relevance to California

    having a gun is better than having nothing, but being unable to carry loaded openly is insanely rediculous, but I know you all have been over that. I hope things change over there for the better.

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    From the article it appears that the shooter was in his car when attacked so does it matter or even a part of the discussion if he was OC or CC. He was in his car so he could very well have had it in his console. The important thing is that he was able to defend himslef and others including his children.

    One thing that disturbs me about this board is how so many try their best to pick apart anything anyone posts and find something negative to say about it. Mybe this was in thr wrong forum but it was still and interesting story and demonstrates how we should always be prepared.

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    Wc wrote:
    yelohamr wrote:
    Or how close he was to a schoolbus stop.

    Once again; from the OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum Rules:
    If you think the post is questionable, please don't post it. Thanks!
    #7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    So, what's your purpose and intentions are you doing here? Last time I checked you wrote “just experience”. We the members beside you, don't needs your psycho experienced for your doing the experiences on us. I noticed you always jumping to conclusions to come to a conclusion prematurely, without sufficient thought or on incomplete evidence.


    Now, please back your claim upabout the 'how close he was to a schoolbus stop'on this topic and without doing an experience on us.

    Thank you.

    DISCLAIMER
    The law is always in a state of flux and even politics law enforcers, lawyers and judges get it wrong from time to time. All my advice posted on this board should be considered nothing more than hearsay. Even if a poster identifies themselves as an dictatorships
    jpierce, Pace, anddirtykoala(are wrongfully accused me as a spammer, anti-law enforcement and commercial sales), acting gods like PincheOgro1or experts in a given field like yelohamris doing an experience on us andthere is no way to verify that fact or that they are correct. Therefore, any and all advice you glean from this forum should be independently verified!
    The article didn't say. Just like the way you pointed out that the article didn't say how he was carrying.

    troll.

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    Wc wrote:
    yelohamr wrote:
    Or how close he was to a school*bus stop.

    Once again; from the OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum Rules:
    If you think the post is questionable, please don't post it.* Thanks!
    #7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority.* Citing to authority, using links when available,*is what makes OCDO so successful.* An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    So, what's your purpose and intentions are you doing here? Last time I checked you wrote “just experience”. We the members beside you, don't needs your psycho experienced for your doing the experiences on us. I noticed you always jumping to conclusions to come to a conclusion prematurely, without sufficient thought or on incomplete evidence.


    Now, please back your claim up*about the 'how close he was to a school*bus stop'*on this topic and without doing an experience on us.

    Thank you.

    DISCLAIMER
    The law is always in a state of flux and even politics law enforcers, lawyers and judges get it wrong from time to time.* All my advice posted on this board should be considered nothing more than hearsay. Even if a poster identifies themselves as an dictatorships
    jpierce, Pace, and*dirtykoala(are wrongfully accused me as a spammer, anti-law enforcement and commercial sales), acting gods like PincheOgro1*or experts in a given field like yelohamr*is doing an experience on us and*there is no way to verify that fact or that they are correct. Therefore, any and all advice you glean from this forum should be independently verified!
    I don't know who taught you English, but you should have fired them a long time ago. Your post looks like a Google translation. Perhaps you could spend less time trolling and more time learning.

  12. #12
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    Wc wrote:
    yelohamr wrote:
    Or how close he was to a schoolbus stop.

    Once again; from the OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum Rules:
    If you think the post is questionable, please don't post it. Thanks!
    #7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    So, what's your purpose and intentions are you doing here? Last time I checked you wrote “just experience”. We the members beside you, don't needs your psycho experienced for your doing the experiences on us. I noticed you always jumping to conclusions to come to a conclusion prematurely, without sufficient thought or on incomplete evidence.


    Now, please back your claim upabout the 'how close he was to a schoolbus stop'on this topic and without doing an experience on us.

    Thank you.

    DISCLAIMER
    The law is always in a state of flux and even politics law enforcers, lawyers and judges get it wrong from time to time. All my advice posted on this board should be considered nothing more than hearsay. Even if a poster identifies themselves as an dictatorships
    jpierce, Pace, anddirtykoala(are wrongfully accused me as a spammer, anti-law enforcement and commercial sales), acting gods like PincheOgro1or experts in a given field like yelohamris doing an experience on us andthere is no way to verify that fact or that they are correct. Therefore, any and all advice you glean from this forum should be independently verified!
    What does "experience on us" mean?

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    I'm reluctant to post to a topic that I realize I probably should have posted elsewhere, however the reason I posted this up was not so much the event, but to illustrate a real world example of what I believe is the mentality of all law-abiding gun owners who would like to carry for personal defense. That mentality is we aren't looking to take the law into our own hands and confront people that should be left for law enforcement, who have the training to deal with these types of people. The gun owner in this article didn't confront the knife wielding man or try to perform a citizen's arrest. Instead he was leaving the parking lot and only used his sidearm when his life (and the life of his family) was in intimidate and clear harm. Whether he was open carrying or conceal carry is far from the point, the point being that he was carrying. I think examples like these are good rebuttals to attacks by the Brady Campaign.

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    If it wasn't posted here, we wouldn't know about it. Welcome to the forum.

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    jaydog wrote:
    I'm reluctant to post to a topic that I realize I probably should have posted elsewhere, however the reason I posted this up was not so much the event, but to illustrate a real world example of what I believe is the mentality of all law-abiding gun owners who would like to carry for personal defense. That mentality is we aren't looking to take the law into our own hands and confront people that should be left for law enforcement, who have the training to deal with these types of people. The gun owner in this article didn't confront the knife wielding man or try to perform a citizen's arrest. Instead he was leaving the parking lot and only used his sidearm when his life (and the life of his family) was in intimidate and clear harm. Whether he was open carrying or conceal carry is far from the point, the point being that he was carrying. I think examples like these are good rebuttals to attacks by the Brady Campaign.
    Do you think it would have been a bad thing if the guy with the gun had confronted the guy with the knife as he was trying to attack others. I don't fault people for putting their family first and getting them out of their, but had his family's safety not been an issue and he confronted the guy in the store to stop him from hurting somebody else, would he have been wrong?

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    This occurred in Tennessee, and that is a "shall issue" state. Because of the gun laws there, it is highly likely that this man carried concealed. Also, because none of the witnesses reported seeing a weapon before the suspect was shot, this further leads to the conclusion that the weapon was concealed.

    Furthermore, when the police arrived, according to an eyewitness on the news, he placed the weapon on the ground and handed the Officers a permit (or so she thought). Obviously a permit is required to CC.

    And the cite: http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgun/generalinfo.htm

    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

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    If you want a bunch more examples of Good Guys w/Guns (most CCW'ers, some OC'ers), saving lives, ck out my post at:
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?p=2357063

    I've added this latest incident to my list.

    There's another news report, this one w/a 2 min video news report, about this incident at: http://www.wmctv.com/global/story.asp?s=12094028

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    OPS MARINE wrote:
    This occurred in Tennessee, and that is a "shall issue" state. Because of the gun laws there, it is highly likely that this man carried concealed. Also, because none of the witnesses reported seeing a weapon before the suspect was shot, this further leads to the conclusion that the weapon was concealed.

    Furthermore, when the police arrived, according to an eyewitness on the news, he placed the weapon on the ground and handed the Officers a permit (or so she thought). Obviously a permit is required to CC.

    And the cite: http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgun/generalinfo.htm
    It is my understanding that in Tennessee you need a permit to either CC or OC.

    As to the other poster prior to that, it is all mans duty (and when I say mans I don't mean men only) to protect society when they have the chance to. In California however you run a risk and you have to take that with that in mind.

    I won't mind going to jail having defended my family, but the risk of protecting someone that isn't my family may give me reason to pause.

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    You know, Theseus, that is a good point. I will not be running 100 yards toward a bad situation...I will be on the phone. Actually, you just gave me an idea.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

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    OPS MARINE, did yuo have a sex change?

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    I get asked at least once a month about "what will you do if you're at the mall and someone starts shooting". It also comes up at school quite often in discussions about lawful carry on campus.

    I'm in Oregon and have a CHL so it's lawful but they won't admit it. Our fight is much easier in most places than those of you living in Cali. I follow the Cali forum because I have business and family in Cali and "dabble" in loaded and unloaded carry there (loaded when on private property in the family only).

    Most of the time people are surprised when I tell them "go the other way unless my wife is in the direction of the gunfire".

    They just can't grasp the difference between an officer that should (but isn't required) to protect the public and my carrying for SELF defense.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    We-the-People wrote:
    I get asked at least once a month about "what will you do if you're at the mall and someone starts shooting". It also comes up at school quite often in discussions about lawful carry on campus.

    I'm in Oregon and have a CHL so it's lawful but they won't admit it. Our fight is much easier in most places than those of you living in Cali. I follow the Cali forum because I have business and family in Cali and "dabble" in loaded and unloaded carry there (loaded when on private property in the family only).

    Most of the time people are surprised when I tell them "go the other way unless my wife is in the direction of the gunfire".

    They just can't grasp the difference between an officer that should (but isn't required) to protect the public and my carrying for SELF defense.
    Of course it doesn't help that we perpetuate the idea by using school shootings in our arguments.

    Perhaps our counter to the question should be exactly that. "Let me be clear, I am not a superhero. I carry to protect me and my family. You are on your own unless the laws change to allow me to protect you without risking jail or personal liability."

  23. #23
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    Theseus wrote:
    We-the-People wrote:
    I get asked at least once a month about "what will you do if you're at the mall and someone starts shooting". It also comes up at school quite often in discussions about lawful carry on campus.

    I'm in Oregon and have a CHL so it's lawful but they won't admit it. Our fight is much easier in most places than those of you living in Cali. I follow the Cali forum because I have business and family in Cali and "dabble" in loaded and unloaded carry there (loaded when on private property in the family only).

    Most of the time people are surprised when I tell them "go the other way unless my wife is in the direction of the gunfire".

    They just can't grasp the difference between an officer that should (but isn't required) to protect the public and my carrying for SELF defense.
    Of course it doesn't help that we perpetuate the idea by using school shootings in our arguments.

    Perhaps our counter to the question should be exactly that. "Let me be clear, I am not a superhero. I carry to protect me and my family. You are on your own unless the laws change to allow me to protect you without risking jail or personal liability."
    Here in SC we have the legal Alter-Ego principle where you are protected legally by acting as another in a case of defense. For example you are in the mini-mart where a clerk is being held at gunpoint and about to be shot then you may act as that clerk in defendin them. With that said I am not about to go running across a parking lot where I see a shooting happening 100 yards away. I have a CWP but it does not make me a police officer or any other agent of the law. Those running around with CWP badges or asking if I now have some legal obligation since I have a CWP or even if I am carrying a gun have been either watchin too many TV shows or reading too much BS on the Internet. Nothing changes from a standpoint of defending others just because you are legally carrying a gun.

    That is one of the problems we face when exercising our rights, that too many do not understand what their righs are and thinking that all of a sudden everything changes just because of some piece of paper or some item that they are carrying. For example the alter-ego principle applies to everyone, not just some special class of people. If you want to be a hero go ahead, but be sure you know what you are getting into before you start. There are too many looking for and excuse to use their gun rather than a situation where they have to. Before you pull your gun out think of what would you do if you did not have it on you. That can save you a lot of time, money and grief.

  24. #24
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Theseus wrote:
    Of course it doesn't help that we perpetuate the idea by using school shootings in our arguments.

    Perhaps our counter to the question should be exactly that. "Let me be clear, I am not a superhero. I carry to protect me and my family. You are on your own unless the laws change to allow me to protect you without risking jail or personal liability."
    No, I doubt that helps. However, at my school, discussion always includes this subject (because I make sure it does). I tell them, it's to defend ME, not you. The only way my carrying a firearm would protect you is if you're in the same room I pick for my defensive area or next to me in the hall on the way out the door.

    I then follow up with "see, you need to get your OWN permit and weapon".

    The other one that I make sure to mention is what happens when there is an acive shooter in the building and the police arrive....... secure the perimeter and WAIT.

    They don't like that one either.

    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Sex change? Nope. The woman in the avatar has meaning. But as you can see, I have changed it. I was actually using it as a place holder.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

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