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Thread: City bus OC?

  1. #1
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    is it legal or not
    I like GUNS

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    Vehicle, §167.31

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    I wouldn't.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Unload and encase before you enter the bus and you are legal. But you'd better keep a tight hold on your case while on board. The problem if you OC in citybus is that you are violating the vehicle carry statue, but you will likely violate school zones. A big no-no on school zones and they carry a felony penalty.

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    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Vehicle, §167.31
    There's your very definitive answer.


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    smithman wrote:
    Unload and encase before you enter the bus and you are legal.
    Free legal advise is worth years of your life.

    941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
    Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden. History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
    [ ...]
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    It says nothing about "unload and encase", that's from 167.31 prohibiting transportation of a loaded, uncased weapon. See The Fork in Wisconsin Gun Laws.

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    yea last night when i was getting a miller free ride on the bus and someone tried to follow me home my gun would have been a nice deterrent.
    I like GUNS

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    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    So Doug, are you saying legal transportation ofa weapon in my own car differs from transporting on a city bus?

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    No. 167 and 941 unless you can find the exception.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    hunter9mm wrote:
    So Doug, are you saying legal transportation of*a weapon in my own car differs from transporting on a city bus?

    I am not Doug but no. The difference is

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    So, if you are carrying the unloaded encased weapon in a case in your car or it's within arms reach in your car and I assume you'd not want to hand the gun case to the bus driver, then it's illegal.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    While you are riding down the street, hold it so that it is viewable throughthe window of the bus. It is not hidden... No violation of 941.23.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    While you are riding down the street, hold it so that it is viewable throughthe window of the bus. It is not hidden... No violation of 941.23.
    Where is the exception for city buses in Safe Use and Transportation of Firearms and Bows, Chapter 167, Section 31,

    (2) PROHIBITIONS; MOTORBOATS AND VEHICLES; HIGHWAYS AND ROADWAYS.

    (b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess
    or transport a firearm, bow or crossbow in or on a vehicle,
    unless the firearm is unloaded and encased or unless the bow or
    crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.

    Oh, and lest you try to impress the newbies, don't forget case law like Alloy's out of reach requirement.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    While you are riding down the street, hold it so that it is viewable throughthe window of the bus. It is not hidden... No violation of 941.23.
    Where is the exception for city buses in Safe Use and Transportation of Firearms and Bows, Chapter 167, Section 31,

    Oh, and lest you try to impress the newbies, don't forget case law like Alloy's out of reach requirement.
    I was referring to an unloaded and encased firearm. It does not have to be out of reach if it is not hidden. There is no case law directly addressing an unloaded and encased firearm as being "hidden". We all know that administrative enforcement policy and common practice does not treat it as such otherwise a LEO would sit outside of Dick's or Gander and fill a citation pad with names..... Ifsomeone in the immediate vicinity and outside of the vehicle can discern that you have an encased firearm in your possession, it is not hidden and therefore not concealed. Transparent case or not, if a handgun case is on your dash, it is not hidden and the handgun is not hidden as you are required to encase it in order to comply with safe transportation and gfsz statutes. If you take that encased firearm and lay it on the seat or on the floor, it is arguably hidden as someone walking by can no longer see it.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    While you are riding down the street, hold it so that it is viewable throughthe window of the bus. It is not hidden... No violation of 941.23.
    Where is the exception for city buses in Safe Use and Transportation of Firearms and Bows, Chapter 167, Section 31,

    Oh, and lest you try to impress the newbies, don't forget case law like Alloy's out of reach requirement.
    I was referring to an unloaded and encased firearm. It does not have to be out of reach if it is not hidden. There is no case law directly addressing an unloaded and encased firearm as being "hidden". We all know that administrative enforcement policy and common practice does not treat it as such otherwise a LEO would sit outside of Dick's or Gander and fill a citation pad with names..... Ifsomeone in the immediate vicinity and outside of the vehicle can discern that you have an encased firearm in your possession, it is not hidden and therefore not concealed. Transparent case or not, if a handgun case is on your dash, it is not hidden and the handgun is not hidden as you are required to encase it in order to comply with safe transportation and gfsz statutes. If you take that encased firearm and lay it on the seat or on the floor, it is arguably hidden as someone walking by can no longer see it.
    in yer face dougy.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Talk to da han'!

    167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows.
    [ ...]
    (2) PROHIBITIONS; MOTORBOATS AND VEHICLES; HIGHWAYS AND
    ROADWAYS.
    [ ...]
    (b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess
    or transport a firearm, bow or crossbow in or on a vehicle,
    unless the firearm is unloaded and encased or unless the bow or
    crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.

    No. 99-2258-CR
    STATE OF WISCONSIN IN COURT OF APPEALS
    DISTRICT III
    STATE OF WISCONSIN,
    PLAINTIFF-RESPONDENT,
    V.
    NICK ALLOY,
    DEFENDANT-APPELLANT.

    ¶3 Much of Alloy’s argument is based on the false assertion that he was
    trapped by a conflict between WIS. STAT. § 167.31 and WIS. STAT. § 941.23. A
    person transporting a firearm is governed by both statutes.
    To comply with
    § 167.31, the person must encase the weapon. To comply with § 941.23, he or she
    must place the enclosed weapon out of reach. See State v. Asfoor, 75 Wis. 2d 411,
    433-34, 249 N.W.2d 529 (1977). A person complying with § 167.31 is not
    required to violate § 941.23. The encased weapon can be lawfully transported out
    of reach.3 The trial court properly disallowed testimony in support of the invalid
    defense that § 167.31 compelled Alloy to “go armed” with a concealed handgun.
    See Dundon, 226 Wis. 2d at 674.
    By the Court.—Judgment affirmed.
    This opinion will not be published. See WIS. STAT. RULE
    809.23(1)(b)5.

    941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
    Any person except
    a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
    weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.
    939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not
    include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission
    warden.
    History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
    [ ...]
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation
    by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from
    view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this
    section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
    There is no statutory or common law privilege for the crime of carrying a concealed
    weapon under s. 941.23. State Dundon, 226 Wis. 2d 654, 594 N.W.2d 780 (1999),
    97−1423.
    Under the facts of the case, the privilege of of self−defense was inapplicable to a
    charge of carrying a concealed weapon. State v. Nollie, 2002 WI 4, 249 Wis. 2d 538,
    638 N.W.2d 280, 00−0744.
    The concealed weapons statute is a restriction on the manner in which firearms are
    possessed and used. It is constitutional under Art. I, s. 25. Only if the public benefit
    in the exercise of the police power is substantially outweighed by an individual’s need
    to conceal a weapon in the exercise of the right to bear arms will an otherwise valid
    restriction on that right be unconstitutional, as applied. The right to keep and bear
    arms for security, as a general matter, must permit a person to possess, carry, and
    sometimes conceal arms to maintain the security of a private residence or privately
    operated business, and to safely move and store weapons within those premises. State
    v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785, 01−0056. See also State
    v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264 Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328, 01−0350.
    A challenge on constitutional grounds of a prosecution for carrying a concealed
    weapon requires affirmative answers to the following before the defendant may raise
    the constitutional defense: 1) under the circumstances, did the defendant’s interest in
    concealing the weapon to facilitate exercise of his or her right to keep and bear arms
    substantially outweigh the state’s interest in enforcing the concealed weapons statute?
    and 2) did the defendant conceal his or her weapon because concealment was the
    only reasonable means under the circumstances to exercise his or her right to bear
    arms? State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785, 01−0056.
    This section is constitutional as applied in this case. The defendant’s interest in
    exercising his right to keep and bear arms for purposes of security by carrying a concealed
    weapon in his vehicle does not substantially outweigh the state’s interest in
    prohibiting him from carrying a concealed weapon in his vehicle. State v. Fisher,
    2006 WI 44, 290 Wis. 2d 121, 714 N.W.2d 495, 04−2989.
    Judges are not peace officers authorized to carry concealed weapons. 69 Atty. Gen.
    66.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    here goes Dougy trying to be Mr. Know it all ------ > again....
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Glock34 wrote:
    here goes Dougy trying to be Mr. Know it all ------ > again....
    Yep, Mr. Wizard, that's me. The sooner you and your puppeteer learn it, love it and leave it alone the happier y'all will be.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    here goes Dougy trying to be Mr. Know it all ------ > again....
    Yep, Mr. Wizard, that's me. The sooner you and your puppeteer learn it, love it and leave it alone the happier y'all will be.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Glock34 wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    here goes Dougy trying to be Mr. Know it all ------ > again....
    Yep, Mr. Wizard, that's me. The sooner you and your puppeteer learn it, love it and leave it alone the happier y'all will be.
    I'm sure that you are being as eloquent as you can be, but it has no effect on me because none of your images get through. It's like an ignore feature on other forums, and that this forum doesn't have, I've set my browser to ignore all images not necessary for functioning of the forum script. For additional instances, smilies are just collections of characters and avatars are filtered.

    You and the ignorant_interrupter are welcome to ignore me - but you can't. Tsk tsk tsk.

  20. #20
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    wow you both just turned my question into a debate fit for a middleschool girls bathroom not a gun rights website.
    I like GUNS

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    OCglock1988 wrote:
    wow you both just turned my question into a debate fit for a middleschool girls bathroom not a gun rights website.
    LMAO!!!
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  22. #22
    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    OCglock1988 wrote:
    wow you both just turned my question into a debate fit for a middleschool girls bathroom not a gun rights website.






    That's the best reply I've seen to the wars we have going here between these 2 guys!!!!!!!!!

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    OCglock1988 wrote:
    wow you both just turned my question into a debate fit for a middleschool girls bathroom not a gun rights website.
    So, what do you think are the answers, is it legal to openly carry on a city bus, and if not then why not, are there any exceptions? Can you hang it in the window, have it on the seat?

    I have no problem getting off point, screwing with the children, and getting right back on point. I-ANAL

  24. #24
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    just trying to have a sense of humor here...Im guessing Hubert wont be bringing any baked beans or brownies to glock34's bbq.
    I like GUNS

  25. #25
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    Doug, if an unloaded handgun in a case is CCW, then there is NO WAY to transport the firearm from a gun store after buying it. In fact, the person behind the gun counter would be CCW when handing you a new gun in its own case. All a cop would have to do is wait outside a gun store and arrest anybody carrying a gun in a case who went in or out of the store. Given some LEO's love for denying people their rights, it would seem they would be there all day. But this doesn't happen and it should tell people something.

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