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City bus OC?

hunter9mm

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OCglock1988 wrote:
wow you both just turned my question into a debate fit for a middleschool girls bathroom not a gun rights website.



th_lol-045.gif




That's the best reply I've seen to the
th_troll1.gif
wars we have going here between these 2 guys!!!!!!!!!
 
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OCglock1988 wrote:
wow you both just turned my question into a debate fit for a middleschool girls bathroom not a gun rights website.
So, what do you think are the answers, is it legal to openly carry on a city bus, and if not then why not, are there any exceptions? Can you hang it in the window, have it on the seat?

I have no problem getting off point, screwing with the children, and getting right back on point. I-ANAL
 

smithman

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Doug, if an unloaded handgun in a case is CCW, then there is NO WAY to transport the firearm from a gun store after buying it. In fact, the person behind the gun counter would be CCW when handing you a new gun in its own case. All a cop would have to do is wait outside a gun store and arrest anybody carrying a gun in a case who went in or out of the store. Given some LEO's love for denying people their rights, it would seem they would be there all day. But this doesn't happen and it should tell people something.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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In case you have gotten lost in the circle jerk, here is a direct answer to your original post.



OCglock1988 wrote:
is it legal or not

Not Legal.....
It is not because of the safe transportaion statute. A bus is a vehicle. It must be unloaded and encased.

There is no State statute prohibiting an unloaded and encased firearm from being on public transportation. There is no case law where someone has been prosecuted for concealed carry and their encased firearm was not otherwise hidden. Since it is not hidden it may be within reach and not be violating the State CCW Statute. This being the reality, if not otherwise prohibited by local code, an unloaded and encased firearm on the bus is legal so long as it is not hidden.
 
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Thank you, counselor(?), for your legal conclusions. Unfortunately I am not a lawyer and must only read the plain words.

Remember folks, advice is worth only what it costs you.

Master Doug Huffman wrote:
167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows.
[ ...]
(2) PROHIBITIONS; MOTORBOATS AND VEHICLES; HIGHWAYS AND
ROADWAYS.
[ ...]
(b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess
or transport a firearm, bow or crossbow in or on a vehicle,
unless the firearm is unloaded and encased or unless the bow or
crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.

No. 99-2258-CR
STATE OF WISCONSIN IN COURT OF APPEALS
DISTRICT III
STATE OF WISCONSIN,
PLAINTIFF-RESPONDENT,
V.
NICK ALLOY,
DEFENDANT-APPELLANT.

¶3 Much of Alloy’s argument is based on the false assertion that he was
trapped by a conflict between WIS. STAT. § 167.31 and WIS. STAT. § 941.23. A
person transporting a firearm is governed by both statutes.
To comply with
§ 167.31, the person must encase the weapon. To comply with § 941.23, he or she
must place the enclosed weapon out of reach. See State v. Asfoor, 75 Wis. 2d 411,
433-34, 249 N.W.2d 529 (1977). A person complying with § 167.31 is not
required to violate § 941.23. The encased weapon can be lawfully transported out
of reach.3 The trial court properly disallowed testimony in support of the invalid
defense that § 167.31 compelled Alloy to “go armed” with a concealed handgun.
See Dundon, 226 Wis. 2d at 674.
By the Court.—Judgment affirmed.
This opinion will not be published. See WIS. STAT. RULE
809.23(1)(b)5.

941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
Any person except
a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.
939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not
include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission
warden.
History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
[ ...]
To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation
by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from
view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this
section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
There is no statutory or common law privilege for the crime of carrying a concealed
weapon under s. 941.23. State Dundon, 226 Wis. 2d 654, 594 N.W.2d 780 (1999),
97−1423.
Under the facts of the case, the privilege of of self−defense was inapplicable to a
charge of carrying a concealed weapon. State v. Nollie, 2002 WI 4, 249 Wis. 2d 538,
638 N.W.2d 280, 00−0744.
The concealed weapons statute is a restriction on the manner in which firearms are
possessed and used. It is constitutional under Art. I, s. 25. Only if the public benefit
in the exercise of the police power is substantially outweighed by an individual’s need
to conceal a weapon in the exercise of the right to bear arms will an otherwise valid
restriction on that right be unconstitutional, as applied. The right to keep and bear
arms for security, as a general matter, must permit a person to possess, carry, and
sometimes conceal arms to maintain the security of a private residence or privately
operated business, and to safely move and store weapons within those premises. State
v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785, 01−0056. See also State
v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264 Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328, 01−0350.
A challenge on constitutional grounds of a prosecution for carrying a concealed
weapon requires affirmative answers to the following before the defendant may raise
the constitutional defense: 1) under the circumstances, did the defendant’s interest in
concealing the weapon to facilitate exercise of his or her right to keep and bear arms
substantially outweigh the state’s interest in enforcing the concealed weapons statute?
and 2) did the defendant conceal his or her weapon because concealment was the
only reasonable means under the circumstances to exercise his or her right to bear
arms? State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785, 01−0056.
This section is constitutional as applied in this case. The defendant’s interest in
exercising his right to keep and bear arms for purposes of security by carrying a concealed
weapon in his vehicle does not substantially outweigh the state’s interest in
prohibiting him from carrying a concealed weapon in his vehicle. State v. Fisher,
2006 WI 44, 290 Wis. 2d 121, 714 N.W.2d 495, 04−2989.
Judges are not peace officers authorized to carry concealed weapons. 69 Atty. Gen.
66.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
Unfortunately I am not a lawyer and must only read the plain words.

To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
s. 941.23 are: 3) the weapon is hidden.

Not a lawyer and does not even read the words.....:lol:

Find prosecution conviction and case law for a 941.23 violation because of having an encased firearm in plain view and you may have a basis for your position. Until then, all you have is conjecture.....;)
 
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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
¶3 Much of Alloy’s argument is based on the false assertion that he was
trapped by a conflict between WIS. STAT. § 167.31 and WIS. STAT. § 941.23. A person transporting a firearm is governed by both statutes. To comply with § 167.31, the person must encase the weapon. To comply with § 941.23, he or she must place the enclosed weapon out of reach. See State v. Asfoor, 75 Wis. 2d 411, 433-34, 249 N.W.2d 529 (1977).
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
¶3 Much of Alloy’s argument is based on the false assertion that he was
trapped by a conflict between WIS. STAT. § 167.31 and WIS. STAT. § 941.23. A person transporting a firearm is governed by both statutes. To comply with § 167.31, the person must encase the weapon. To comply with § 941.23, he or she must place the enclosed weapon out of reach. See State v. Asfoor, 75 Wis. 2d 411, 433-34, 249 N.W.2d 529 (1977).

You are correct. I am not refuting the fact that if it is hidden and within reach, you are violating 941.23. On the seat of a car is arguabley hidden as someone in the immediate vicinity and outside of the vehicle can not readily discern it. In the glove boxis hidden. Encased and in plain view is not hidden. Notice your quote above states "enclosed" weapon. In Alloy, the encased handgun was then hidden in a metal box.....;)

Nick Alloy appeals a judgment convicting him of carrying a concealed weapon, a handgun contained in a zipper case inside a metalbox between the bucket seats of his Jeep Wagoneer.1

You have failed to find something relevant......:?
 
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