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Thread: Gerald Ung

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=442504090187

    Join the facebook group. Lets show our support. I'm sure everyone
    remembers this case. Let's not let it drop off our radar!
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Campaign Veteran joeamt's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=442504090187

    Join the facebook group. Lets show our support. I'm sure everyone
    remembers this case. Let's not let it drop off our radar!
    I'm afraid, even though I would love to help, I am a grown man whom does not socialize on these two social sites: KidsSpace (myspace) and ChildBook (facebook).

    Do you have any other source links that do not go to either of these sites?

    Sorry for the trouble.

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    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    jmb_nova wrote: Not knowing much about the shooter, the other party or the situation, it's hard to make an informed judgment. However, at face value this video doesn't look real good for the shooter. I can see a lot of "dont's" that we teach to avoid in both conflict resolution and CQB training.I wouldn't make this guy a poster child of the carry movement just yet. I suppose I am little different from some people here in that I don't excuse inadequate training using the Second Amendment. To me it's not about the Second Amendment, but rather about personal responsiblity.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    joeamt wrote:
    simmonsjoe wrote:
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=442504090187

    Join the facebook group. Lets show our support. I'm sure everyone
    remembers this case. Let's not let it drop off our radar!
    I'm afraid, even though I would love to help, I am a grown man whom does not socialize on these two social sites: KidsSpace (myspace) and ChildBook (facebook).

    Do you have any other source links that do not go to either of these sites?

    Sorry for the trouble.
    It's no trouble, you are the one who is missing information you wish to have.

    This Facebook group is "open", you do not need to be a member of Facebook to read it.

    I really don't think anyone who works for your ISP will divulge that you visited the site... your secret will be safe.

    TFred

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    gis wrote:
    jmb_nova wrote: Not knowing much about the shooter, the other party or the situation, it's hard to make an informed judgment. However, at face value this video doesn't look real good for the shooter. I can see a lot of "dont's" that we teach to avoid in both conflict resolution and CQB training.I wouldn't make this guy a poster child of the carry movement just yet. I suppose I am little different from some people here in that I don't excuse inadequate training using the Second Amendment. To me it's not about the Second Amendment, but rather about personal responsiblity.
    I agree. I think it possibly would have been more advantageous to call 911 or the local police dept before drawing your firearm from deep cover and then "looking left then right" with it. The last thing we really want to do is draw to kill, but if the situation requires it... I must have missed the original thread in its entirety due to a busy class schedule recently, however even I would side with Hank and agree not to shoot an unarmed man. In my mind, the attacker, if he was armed, would have either flashed it or brandished it in his hand.

    Like gis said, there are a few donts. My thoughts and best wishes go to him though.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    gis wrote:
    jmb_nova wrote: Not knowing much about the shooter, the other party or the situation, it's hard to make an informed judgment. However, at face value this video doesn't look real good for the shooter. I can see a lot of "dont's" that we teach to avoid in both conflict resolution and CQB training.I wouldn't make this guy a poster child of the carry movement just yet. I suppose I am little different from some people here in that I don't excuse inadequate training using the Second Amendment. To me it's not about the Second Amendment, but rather about personal responsiblity.
    I agree. I think it possibly would have been more advantageous to call 911 or the local police dept before drawing your firearm from deep cover and then "looking left then right" with it. The last thing we really want to do is draw to kill, but if the situation requires it... I must have missed the original thread in its entirety due to a busy class schedule recently, however even I would side with Hank and agree not to shoot an unarmed man. In my mind, the attacker, if he was armed, would have either flashed it or brandished it in his hand.

    Like gis said, there are a few donts. My thoughts and best wishes go to him though.
    Been discussed, and discussed, and........................................



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    peter nap wrote:
    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    gis wrote:
    jmb_nova wrote: Not knowing much about the shooter, the other party or the situation, it's hard to make an informed judgment. However, at face value this video doesn't look real good for the shooter. I can see a lot of "dont's" that we teach to avoid in both conflict resolution and CQB training.I wouldn't make this guy a poster child of the carry movement just yet. I suppose I am little different from some people here in that I don't excuse inadequate training using the Second Amendment. To me it's not about the Second Amendment, but rather about personal responsiblity.
    I agree. I think it possibly would have been more advantageous to call 911 or the local police dept before drawing your firearm from deep cover and then "looking left then right" with it. The last thing we really want to do is draw to kill, but if the situation requires it... I must have missed the original thread in its entirety due to a busy class schedule recently, however even I would side with Hank and agree not to shoot an unarmed man. In my mind, the attacker, if he was armed, would have either flashed it or brandished it in his hand.

    Like gis said, there are a few donts. My thoughts and best wishes go to him though.
    Been discussed, and discussed, and........................................

    I applaud your speed

    Sorry, totally put my $.02. Didnt mean to in all honesty.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Mr. Ung appeard in court today. This post on PAFOA seems to be a good summary of the situation.

    http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/8607...ml#post1179541

    TFred


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    You can't wait to draw until a punch is thrown, then you may be dead.NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    gis wrote:
    jmb_nova wrote: Not knowing much about the shooter, the other party or the situation, it's hard to make an informed judgment. However, at face value this video doesn't look real good for the shooter. I can see a lot of "dont's" that we teach to avoid in both conflict resolution and CQB training.I wouldn't make this guy a poster child of the carry movement just yet. I suppose I am little different from some people here in that I don't excuse inadequate training using the Second Amendment. To me it's not about the Second Amendment, but rather about personal responsiblity.
    I agree. I think it possibly would have been more advantageous to call 911 or the local police dept before drawing your firearm from deep cover and then "looking left then right" with it. The last thing we really want to do is draw to kill, but if the situation requires it... I must have missed the original thread in its entirety due to a busy class schedule recently, however even I would side with Hank and agree not to shoot an unarmed man. In my mind, the attacker, if he was armed, would have either flashed it or brandished it in his hand.

    Like gis said, there are a few donts. My thoughts and best wishes go to him though.
    This has been discussed at length on this site, but I can't help but comment. How can you suggest that he should dial 911, looks like a strong argument for justified self defense, he and his date are being closed in on by a group of thugs, and the main adversary actually throws punches. You can't wait till a blow is thrown by such a group before you draw, that is how you get beat to death. Is he in reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm to himself or others? Maybe so. Doesn't matter that they are not armed with weapons.

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    I see 2 of the gun charges were dismissed due to his Virginia permit. The friend testified the thug grabbed at his leg? The video seems to show him throwing punches.

    By MENSAH M. DEAN
    Philadelphia Daily News

    Gerald Ung, the third-year Temple University law school student arrested in January for shooting another man five times in front of the Old City Fox TV studio, this morning was ordered to stand trial on attempted murder and aggravated assault charges.

    Philadelphia Municipal Judge David Shuter dismissed two gun charges because Ung had a legal permit to carry a gun from his native state of Virginia.

    Ung, 28, out on bail and dressed in a black business suit and dark-rimmed glasses, said nothing during his preliminary hearing.

    On Jan. 17, he got into an altercation with four young men at about 2:30 a.m. at 4th and Market streets. Seth Webster, one of the four, testified that Ung pulled out a gun after his friend Tom Kelly started moving toward him. "Get the F--- back," Ung shouted, Webster said.

    Another friend, Edward "Eddie" DiDonato Jr., 23, then said to Ung, "Who you gonna shoot?" Webster said.

    Ung kicked at DiDonato to keep him at bay, DiDonato grabbed at Ung's leg. As he fell backward, Ung began firing.

    He hit DiDonato five times in the upper body. DiDonato, a Villanova University graduate, is still recovering with four bullets in his body and is suffering with paralysis of the bowels, bladder, sexual organs and left foot, said Assistant District Attorney Jan McDermott.

    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid," she said.

    McMahon said the shooting was self-defense. "My client was the victim of bullies," he said. "Four guys are drunk and they think they can bully anybody they want, say whatever they want and do whatever they want."

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    Please check out the post from Gun Lawyer here, who apparently runs Firearms Law Workshops, and says Ungs behavior was without fault and a textbook case of escalation of force while executing his duty to retreat. GunLawyer writes some impressive posts. http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/8607...g-page-66.html

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    Jonesy wrote:
    Please check out the post from Gun Lawyer here, who apparently runs Firearms Law Workshops, and says Ungs behavior was without fault and a textbook case of escalation of force while executing his duty to retreat. GunLawyer writes some impressive posts. http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/8607...g-page-66.html
    Excellent analysis - look for the jury/judge to find this way.

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    Sounds like a good analysis on GunLawyer's part assuming that Ung had a duty to retreat. I have not looked it up as I don't plan to visit the area but i'm going to assume that Philly has a duty to retreat law?

    On a side note:
    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid,"

    This really bothers me! The poor,poor 23 y/o kid got shot.HELLO!!!!!! He was trying to AT LEAST do bodily harm to another, maybe KILL him. When are people going to take some responsibility for their actions and understand that fists are deadly? And unfortunately, my generation is fraught with these morons.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, sorry about the rant.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    driveramsII wrote:
    Sounds like a good analysis on GunLawyer's part assuming that Ung had a duty to retreat. I have not looked it up as I don't plan to visit the area but i'm going to assume that Philly has a duty to retreat law?

    On a side note:
    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid,"

    This really bothers me! The poor,poor 23 y/o kid got shot.HELLO!!!!!! He was trying to AT LEAST do bodily harm to another, maybe KILL him. When are people going to take some responsibility for their actions and understand that fists are deadly? And unfortunately, my generation is fraught with these morons.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, sorry about the rant.
    I think this case is well worth ranting about. The best case scenario for Mr. Ung is that he will be free, but also minus a very large sum of money spent on defense, and possibly the end of his career plans. The real criminal in this case will under the worst case scenario, walk away with no punishment, aside from the physical injuries sustained, and could very likely pursue civil litigation after the criminal trial is over.

    And on top of that, the liberal media, and to a large extent, public opinion because of that, will forever paint the attacker as the victim, no matter what the real outcome of the case. They will claim justice thwarted, not justice served.

    TFred


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    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid," she said.
    Fist fight?????? More like a beat down with 4 against 1 and possibility of paralysis or evenworse to the 1.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    driveramsII wrote:
    Sounds like a good analysis on GunLawyer's part assuming that Ung had a duty to retreat. I have not looked it up as I don't plan to visit the area but i'm going to assume that Philly has a duty to retreat law?

    On a side note:
    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid,"

    This really bothers me! The poor,poor 23 y/o kid got shot.HELLO!!!!!! He was trying to AT LEAST do bodily harm to another, maybe KILL him. When are people going to take some responsibility for their actions and understand that fists are deadly? And unfortunately, my generation is fraught with these morons.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, sorry about the rant.
    I think this case is well worth ranting about. The best case scenario for Mr. Ung is that he will be free, but also minus a very large sum of money spent on defense, and possibly the end of his career plans. The real criminal in this case will under the worst case scenario, walk away with no punishment, aside from the physical injuries sustained, and could very likely pursue civil litigation after the criminal trial is over.

    And on top of that, the liberal media, and to a large extent, public opinion because of that, will forever paint the attacker as the victim, no matter what the real outcome of the case. They will claim justice thwarted, not justice served.

    TFred
    Interesting! I wonder if Mr. Ung, when he wins, could sue Mr. DiDonato to recover costs to damaged image and legal fees? I never could understand why this civil liability only went one way....
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid," she said.

    23 year old kid? ...Sorry, he is a 23 year old grown ADULT fully responsible for his OWN actions!!! The ADA is trying to vilify Ung for shooting a "kid" when this "kid" and his buddies were ganging up, 4 to 1, on what they had thought was an unarmed man...Tell you what Ms. ADA...let me and 3 of my buddies gang up on you 4 to 1 and see if your opinion doesn't change at all...

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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    driveramsII wrote:
    Sounds like a good analysis on GunLawyer's part assuming that Ung had a duty to retreat. I have not looked it up as I don't plan to visit the area but i'm going to assume that Philly has a duty to retreat law?

    On a side note:
    "Years ago what would have ended in a fist fight ended with the paralysis of a 23-year-old kid,"

    This really bothers me! The poor,poor 23 y/o kid got shot.HELLO!!!!!! He was trying to AT LEAST do bodily harm to another, maybe KILL him. When are people going to take some responsibility for their actions and understand that fists are deadly? And unfortunately, my generation is fraught with these morons.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, sorry about the rant.
    I think this case is well worth ranting about. The best case scenario for Mr. Ung is that he will be free, but also minus a very large sum of money spent on defense, and possibly the end of his career plans. The real criminal in this case will under the worst case scenario, walk away with no punishment, aside from the physical injuries sustained, and could very likely pursue civil litigation after the criminal trial is over.

    And on top of that, the liberal media, and to a large extent, public opinion because of that, will forever paint the attacker as the victim, no matter what the real outcome of the case. They will claim justice thwarted, not justice served.

    TFred
    Interesting! I wonder if Mr. Ung, when he wins, could sue Mr. DiDonato to recover costs to damaged image and legal fees? I never could understand why this civil liability only went one way....
    You're making way to much sense here haha. It would be nice to see him sue the pants off of them for his legal costs but i doubt it would work in his favor since he was in possession (legally) of a tool of evil (firearm) !!!!!! I think Didonato got what was coming to him and i hope he remembers that every day of his life if the story is true and went the way it seems to have.
    HOOAH?

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    25sierraman wrote:
    You're making way to much sense here haha. It would be nice to see him sue the pants off of them for his legal costs but i doubt it would work in his favor since he was in possession (legally) of a tool of evil (firearm) !!!!!! I think Didonato got what was coming to him and i hope he remembers that every day of his life if the story is true and went the way it seems to have.
    There is a price to be paid for one's actions, without any doubt.

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    My initial reaction to watching the video is that Ung was in a bad bad situation. Two guys were advancing on him with apparent intent to attack/hit him. So, it may very well be a justified act of self-defense. Sloppy and possibly avoidable. But, still, self-defense.

    How it turns out in court is anyone's guess. It's just uncertain.

    One thing is certain, though. This is yet another (why are there soooo many?) corroborating case of the simple and powerful wisdom of HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© which is:


    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

    Ifonly Ung had included analysis of this unassailable concept in his university studies.... he might not be in the legal pickle he is in now.

    Ung has now learned that HPCSD©always applies. There has never been an exception to this vaunted concept. And there never will be.

    Good luck, Mr. Ung.




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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:

    One thing is certain, though. This is yet another (why are there soooo many?) corroborating case of the simple and powerful wisdom of HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© which is:


    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

    Ifonly Ung had included analysis of this unassailable concept in his university studies.... he might not be in the legal pickle he is in now.

    Ung has now learned that HPCSD©always applies. There has never been an exception to this vaunted concept. And there never will be.





    I really hope you find yourself in Mr. Ung's situation some day.....and get beaten to death so we won't be subjected to your pompous drivel ever again.
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    And I think Mr. Ung when faced with his options of shoot the "poor, unarmed, KIDs" or be beat to death would rather be in a legal battle than in a battle to survive on a Philly sidewalk at 0230 by himself.

    Just my .02

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    driveramsII wrote:
    And I think Mr. Ung when faced with his options of shoot the "poor, unarmed, KIDs" or be beat to death would rather be in a legal battle than in a battle to survive on a Philly sidewalk at 0230 by himself.

    Just my .02
    My first thought when I saw the Video, was that it was a bad shooting. The more I read about the more I'm not sure.

    I wasn't there so I can't say what their actions were.

    I know two things for sure.

    1. Once he drew the gun at that distance, he was committed.
    2. I'd rather get dragged naked over cactus, than agree with Hanks reasoning.

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    Agreed. Thats why I asked earlier about Philly's duty to retreat status. If they do not have a duty to retreat then I don't think I would have waited that long/until he was that close to shoot him. Upon his first forward advancing, aggressive move I would have put him down, especially considering he was verbally warned. As you stated, I am on the outside looking in but my gut tells me that Mr. Ung waited too long to use force. It tends to be harder to hit your target effectively while being tackled.

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