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Thread: Argument for current Legality of Open Carry

  1. #1
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    As is codified under Arkansas Code 1987 it is a Crime to either:

    1. Possess a Handgun IF YOU INTEND to employ it Criminally, per 5-73-102.

    2. Possess a Handgun IF YOU ARE ON SCHOOL PROPERTY, provided IF THE PROPERTY IS A SCHOOL K-12 IT IS ILLEGAL,per 5-73-119(b)(1)

    3. But IF THE PROPERTY IS A HIGHER INSTITUION OF LEARNING, then, IT IS LEGAL, as long as there is NO INTENT, per 5-73-119(c)(1).

    4. Openly Carrying a Handgun in Arkansas would at first appear Illegal,HOWEVER per 5-73-120, Open Carry is Legal IF there is NO INTENT.

    This Code reads:

    5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

    (a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun,

    knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise

    readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon

    against a person.

    Therefore, Case and Point: NO INTENT TO USE THE HANDGUN MEANS NO CRIME HAS OCCURED!

    Furthermore, you CAN OPEN CARRY anywhere, apparently, in Arkansas, except the two places listed above, except that:

    5. 5-73-122 of Arkansas Code says LOADED CARRY IN ANY PUBLIC BUILDING OR FACILITY OR STATE CAPITOL GROUNDS IS ILLEGAL, therefore, IF THE HANDGUN IS CARRIED, CARRY IT WITHOUT INTENT AND MAKE SURE THAT IT IS UNLOADED WHILE THERE.

    6. Loaded or Unloaded Carry in TheSTATE CAPITOL BUILDING ITSELF, STATE JUSTICE BUILDING, OR COURTHOUSE/ROOM IS ILLEGAL, PERIOD. In this instance it would not matter if thereis intent or not. Arkansas Codes: 5-73-122(a)(2) AND 5-73-122(a)(2) and (b)(1), of the same Code.

    7. UNFORTUNATELY, carrying any Handgun, even without intent and even Unloaded, would still be a Crime in ANY PLACE THAT SELLS ALCOHOL, per 5-73-120(d)(1). These places could include: Wal-Mart, Gas Stations, etc.

    These are just my thoughts...,







  2. #2
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    I am all for OC but I will let you be the test case. I don't have that much time or money.

    Arkansas also has a journey law but what is a journey.

    You also forgot all the other places we can not carry. Arkansas has so many no go places thatI can't go anywhere.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    I can not be 'The Test Case', becuase; I do not live in Arkansas.

    However, all of 'the other off-limts' places only refer to Concealed Carry, not Open Carry, thus, Open Carry would be simingly Legal in those places, as the Firearm in question would not be Concealed.

    Nevertheless, Arkansas Criminal Law is long-winded and long..., so, I do not want to be 'The Test 'Case', either.

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    That's to bad we need someone to be the test case. lol

    Why not move here just to be the test case? lol
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

  5. #5
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    I am happy right where I am at..., in a Open Carry State.

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    But as the above law sates "on or about his person" this doesn't leave much room for any carry. Unless on a journey but what constitutes a journey?


    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    Certainly a compelling argument. Too bad I can't afford to get back out that way...
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Good luck convincing the jury you have no intention of using the weapon against
    an attacker, but only against falling piano's.
    If it comes to that, then tell them you were aiming for the bad guys knife
    and missed in the excitement of the moment.


  9. #9
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    Here is some more food for your thought...

    Read this Court case:

    Carr vs. State (Ark) 1879

    It looks to me that according to the Supreme Court ruling, Arkansans can open carry exactly like a Californian can; open and unloaded!

    Also, check this out:

    Act 696; Arkansas's Handgun law

    According to this article, 77% of judges polled about Arkansas's law agree with YOU!



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    Of course 'They' agree with Me!

    Arkansas is a Grey Open Carry State.

    The term 'Gray' means that although Uncommon and Vague, it would be Legal, If, a Person went through great lengths to ensure that the Letter of the Law is followed exactly as it is written.

  11. #11
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    We just need someone willing to be the test case.

    I wish I had the money.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    I am from Arkansas, but live in TN now.

    Arkansas weapons law is based on what you 'intend' to usesuch objectfor. Are you carrying that club to play baseball or check tire pressure on a big rig (tire knocker) or are you using it as a club on someone in the hood for self defense or offensive use as a weapon? Are youcarrying the handgun to go target shooting cans...hunting/fishing...hiking......or as a weaponfor protection in the ghetto?

    Generally, it does not matter whether the handgun is loaded OR unloaded...it is all in what you intend to do with it. You can be carrying(or have in the glovebox) an unloaded handgun but still be carrying it as a weapon to use against a person for offense/defense. You can also havea loaded gun in the car and a bunch of targets, muffs, range bag, and you are going target shooting...thus going target shooting and not carrying it as a weapon to useon a person...but you intend to shoot targets....do my home state's weapons laws seem a little wacked out? Confusing? They can be if you are not from there.

    In Arkansas it is illegal to carry a weapon with intent to employ it as a weapon against a person (pretty close wording). Some common defenses to this are:

    1. On a journey

    2. Going to or from hunting or while hunting with a handgun legal for hunting (4 inch barreled handgun works generally...hogs are in season yr round..squirrels also have a long season).

    3.With a concealed handgun license

    4.In your abode

    5.Place of business



    Now I did not put everything up there like LEO's, prison guards, and other like defenses, but I hope you get the idea. The only defense that requires concealment is when you are using a CHL.

    A journey has historically been considered being away from your 'circle of friends'. That can be any distance. It is pretty broad in Arkansas. IF you are charged a good lawyer could get you off. I would not recommend open carrying on that one unless I had luggage in my car and driving a good distance and even then I still wouldn't do it unless maybe pumping gas....no one does it...even though 'legal'...you're safer when going to and from hunting in camo than a journey honestly b/c you are 'dressed' for it and obviously a hunter. Having a handgun on the seat won't give you problems when on a journey....one a tad exposed shouldn't cause too much trouble...but purposefully exposed..hmmm it's your call..i've never seen it. I always concealed when on a journey when I got out of my car.

    All the places 'off limits' for those with a CHL are not 'off limits' when 'on a journey'...remember the code just says a license 'does not authorize you to carry' in those 20 places. Now if you are on a journey...it doesn't matter b/c you don't even need a license...and you don't even need to be 21...the minimum age is 18 to carry when on a journey or to and from hunting.

    Hope that helps..my home state's laws are confusing...if you carry in public when on a journey i'd honestly conceal b/c your avg police officer in AR does not know the law and you will pay $$$$$ to deal with it in court.

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    Arkansas laws are very sticky and vague! If I had the money to back me up or the legal team, I would be the test subject. Mike, do you help us out if we get in trouble if we have done nothing wrong? I know you have a legal background. I open carry all over the country in the states that allow of course. I am a truck driver. As a matter of fact went by your neck of the woods today, well at least the fairgrounds. lol.:celebrate

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    Nine Flags wrote:
    Arkansas laws are very sticky and vague!
    Voltaire wrote:
    Let all the laws be clear, uniform and precise. To interpret laws is almost always to corrupt them.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    The laws are meant to be vague for a reason....to be applied when they want to be applied or not applied.

    In the past..and we are talking before licenses even existed in the mid 1990's (there was no such thing in Arkansas until then)...police looked the other way when coming across an otherwise clean cut individual carrying a handgun for protection. The laws are so vague that the police letmost people slide and used the weapons laws as add on charges for criminals..drunks..trouble makers....now I'm not talking about open carrying in downtown Little Rock, Fort Smith or Fayetteville on a belt holster...I'm talking concealed carry....these handguns are usually discovered during traffic stops as you all know and this is when the looking the other way happened.

    Even after licenses were issued, I carried strictly when on a 'journey' when say going between Little Rock and Fort Smith for the day and back or Little Rock and Pine Bluff without a license. Totally legal and I knew it...police know it....but I never openly carried when say going into a gas station or rest stop or someone's house.

    About the only time I have openly carried in Arkansas is when using a handgun in the outdoors...such as hiking on paper company land for snake protection....shooting cans....target shooting......hunting........or going to and from such activities in rural areas on foot/4 wheeler. Never a problem from anyone and no police called b/c again legal no laws broken.

    I ended up eventually getting a concealed handgun license in Arkansas...the funny thing is there are more 'off limits' places in Arkansas for people carrying on their license than those without one...such as 'on a journey' or otherwise.

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    I too would be a test case if I had money.

    I would like to OC and have OC in other states and never had any problems.

    I think we have just fallen in to the mindset the CC has some sort of tactical advantage.


    The next time someone says, "if you OC you will be the first to get shot." I may be the first to be shot if I CC. I don't know and they don't know. If I am the first targetthat may give time for others (my family)to get away, after all I am carrying for the protection of myself and others.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    Good luck convincing the jury you have no intention of using the weapon
    You loose two jurors the moment you say "weapon". Weapons are for "offensive tactics". In defense, use your gun, pistol, sidearm, Kimber, glock, firearm, shootin iron, etc.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Exactly you are not carrying the handgun as a weapon with intent to employ it as a weapon against a person....that is the foundation of the weapons laws in Arkansas.

    If not within the defenses to prosecution........you are carrying the handgun for snake protection...target shooting....fun things of that nature....b/c that is not carrying it as a weapon with the purpose of using it against a person. You say 'self defense' against people..and DONT fall in those defenses...that can get you a weapons charge in Arkansas.

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    So if I were to walk on the bush here in Arkansas I can OC because of snake protection, so If I walk into a store I can use in case of spiders.:P

    Sound like a good reason for me.

    I see your point.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    I have been told that you are on a jorney if A) you are or will be traveling more than 50 miles from your place of residence, or B) you are on a trip of any length where you will be spending that night away from yourplaceofresidence. This is just what I was once told by an instructor with the ASPand I can't verify the validity of the information nor what he was using as a reference.



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    Therein lies the rub: "journey" is not legally defined.

    Who wants to be the test case? :?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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