wally1120
Regular Member
imported post
If someone don`t have a CPL can they ride a Bicycle OCing?
If someone don`t have a CPL can they ride a Bicycle OCing?
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OC On a Bicycle W/O CPL
- Thread starter wally1120
- Start date
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
imported post
There is no case law... and the definition of 'vehicle' is not the same across MCL code...
So if you want to be the test case, we'd all love you for it.
There is no case law... and the definition of 'vehicle' is not the same across MCL code...
So if you want to be the test case, we'd all love you for it.
BreakingTheMold
Regular Member
imported post
It's not a motor vehicle, it's fine.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(l3...eg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-227
It's not a motor vehicle, it's fine.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(l3...eg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-227
wally1120
Regular Member
imported post
Evil Creamsicle wrote:
I am looking for a YES OR NO answer, Not looking for a Grey Area.
Evil Creamsicle wrote:
I am sure you guys would love to find out, But I am not going to risk losing everything that I have.
I am looking for a YES OR NO answer, Not looking for a Grey Area.
FatboyCykes
Regular Member
imported post
BreakingTheMold
Regular Member
imported post
Section 750.227c
linkable
printable
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating MCL 312.10(1)(g).
Sec. 227c.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) This section does not apply to a person who violates section 10(1)(g) of chapter II of Act No. 286 of the Public Acts of 1929, as amended, being section 312.10 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982
© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan
I do not believe you pedaling a bicyle would count as mechanical.
Section 750.227c
linkable
printable THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating MCL 312.10(1)(g).
Sec. 227c.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) This section does not apply to a person who violates section 10(1)(g) of chapter II of Act No. 286 of the Public Acts of 1929, as amended, being section 312.10 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982
© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan
I do not believe you pedaling a bicyle would count as mechanical.
sasha601
Regular Member
imported post
Actually, "vehicle" is clearly defined in Michigan Law under MCL 257.79:
"257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79. “Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws."
I highlighted the most important part of this section as relates to this thread. Bicycle is a device that is moved exclusively by human power. So, it is clearly not a "vehicle" under Michigan Law. It is clear to me that OC while riding a bicycle without CPL is just fine since you are not in, on or upon a "vehicle" as legally defined.Now, motorcycle is a different story. This is I agree is a grey area.
Actually, "vehicle" is clearly defined in Michigan Law under MCL 257.79:
"257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79. “Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws."
I highlighted the most important part of this section as relates to this thread. Bicycle is a device that is moved exclusively by human power. So, it is clearly not a "vehicle" under Michigan Law. It is clear to me that OC while riding a bicycle without CPL is just fine since you are not in, on or upon a "vehicle" as legally defined.Now, motorcycle is a different story. This is I agree is a grey area.
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
imported post
...although, a bicycle is 'chain drive'... much like a motorcycle... what isn't mechanical about gears pulling chains?
Just saying.
There is no yes or no answer Wally, that would be 100% certain. This is why I did not give you one.
Sasha, the two laws, the one posted above and yours, contradict each other.
Which one would the judge use?
Does one take precedence over the other?
...although, a bicycle is 'chain drive'... much like a motorcycle... what isn't mechanical about gears pulling chains?
Just saying.
There is no yes or no answer Wally, that would be 100% certain. This is why I did not give you one.
ETA:
Sasha, the two laws, the one posted above and yours, contradict each other.
Which one would the judge use?
Does one take precedence over the other?
dougwg
Regular Member
imported post
wally1120 wrote:
It doesn't matter what you're looking for, it's a gray area like many laws and life in general.
Today you learned something
wally1120 wrote:
It doesn't matter what you're looking for, it's a gray area like many laws and life in general.
Today you learned something
wally1120
Regular Member
imported post
I am not going to test the waters, I will wait till I have my CPL and be able to do alot more things. I don`t want to be the one that ends up getting socked with something that no one knew about.
I am not going to test the waters, I will wait till I have my CPL and be able to do alot more things. I don`t want to be the one that ends up getting socked with something that no one knew about.
sasha601
Regular Member
imported post
The answer is clearly "yes", OC on a bicycle is fine based on information at hand. Common guys, at some point, when evidence is clear,we just should not to be afraid to draw a clear conclusion
The answer is clearly "yes", OC on a bicycle is fine based on information at hand. Common guys, at some point, when evidence is clear,we just should not to be afraid to draw a clear conclusion
dougwg
Regular Member
imported post
sasha601 wrote:
So you wish to give advice that might get someone in a world of crap.
Not the best thing to do.
Lets say someone takes your advice and a cop writes them for it and a judge agrees and the appeals court agrees and this person is stuck with a felony for the rest of their life, hows that gunna make you feel?
sasha601 wrote:
So you wish to give advice that might get someone in a world of crap.
Not the best thing to do.
Lets say someone takes your advice and a cop writes them for it and a judge agrees and the appeals court agrees and this person is stuck with a felony for the rest of their life, hows that gunna make you feel?
springerdave
Regular Member
imported post
Like "crap" as well. I saw on Fox News several days ago, that a guy is spending some time in the graybar hotel for "practicing law" w/o a license. Try to be the nice guy:banghead: and see what happens.springerdave.
Like "crap" as well. I saw on Fox News several days ago, that a guy is spending some time in the graybar hotel for "practicing law" w/o a license. Try to be the nice guy:banghead: and see what happens.springerdave.
BreakingTheMold
Regular Member
imported post
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
Maybe it's me but that sounds like you can carry in vehicles. Why can't laws be written plainly....
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
Maybe it's me but that sounds like you can carry in vehicles. Why can't laws be written plainly....
wally1120
Regular Member
imported post
The Government was the one to write this stuff, And you think the Government wants to make things easy for civilians? :lol::cuss:
The Government was the one to write this stuff, And you think the Government wants to make things easy for civilians? :lol::cuss:
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
BreakingTheMold wrote:
Aaaah were does it say motor vehicle in this statute? The fact is this topic has been discussed to death and the consensus is that it's a gray area. The firearm statute doesn't define what a vehicle is.
You can not use the definition of one statute and apply it to another. Therefore you have to go to the dictionary and most definitions of vehicles is something used to convey people or goods overland. A bicycle would fit that definition.
BreakingTheMold wrote:
Aaaah were does it say motor vehicle in this statute? The fact is this topic has been discussed to death and the consensus is that it's a gray area. The firearm statute doesn't define what a vehicle is.
You can not use the definition of one statute and apply it to another. Therefore you have to go to the dictionary and most definitions of vehicles is something used to convey people or goods overland. A bicycle would fit that definition.
BreakingTheMold
Regular Member
imported post
wally1120 wrote:
wally1120 wrote:
Fixed spelling mistake
BreakingTheMold
Regular Member
imported post
BreakingTheMold wrote:
A bicycle is propelled by a person not a motor or any other mechanics. Gears canincrease a persons torque, but not propel the machine. This is all IMO, but I would be willing to put this to the test.
Disagree? then ride a scooter or skateboard etc, but stay away from hills, they might count gravity as a mechanical propellant. :banghead:
BreakingTheMold wrote:
Section 750.227c
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating MCL 312.10(1)(g).
Sec. 227c.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) This section does not apply to a person who violates section 10(1)(g) of chapter II of Act No. 286 of the Public Acts of 1929, as amended, being section 312.10 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982
© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan
I do not believe you pedaling a bicycle would count as mechanical.
A bicycle is propelled by a person not a motor or any other mechanics. Gears canincrease a persons torque, but not propel the machine. This is all IMO, but I would be willing to put this to the test.
Disagree? then ride a scooter or skateboard etc, but stay away from hills, they might count gravity as a mechanical propellant. :banghead:
zigziggityzoo
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Evil Creamsicle wrote:
There is case law for motorcycles, and what constitute's "in."
A bicycle isn't that far off. I wouldn't recommend it.
Evil Creamsicle wrote:
There is case law for motorcycles, and what constitute's "in."
A bicycle isn't that far off. I wouldn't recommend it.
zigziggityzoo
Campaign Veteran
imported post
BreakingTheMold wrote:
The law does not say motor vehicle. It just says vehicle. As the term "Vehicle" is not defined in statute, the court may define it themselves.
BreakingTheMold wrote:
The law does not say motor vehicle. It just says vehicle. As the term "Vehicle" is not defined in statute, the court may define it themselves.