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Thread: Medford Police keep public in the dark

  1. #1
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    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...317/-1/NEWSMAP

    i wonder if the police chief, the sheriff and the head of the state police barracks are feeling persecuted? feeling disgruntled? feeling like the entire world is watching them? are they a threat to themselves or others? do they have firearms? maybe they need to be watched and evaluated?
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    I think it is time for an open carry protest event. Perhaps show up at the next city council meeting to have our concerns heard and our RIGHT to keep and bear SEEN.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    This is unacceptable conduct on the part of all law enforcement organizations involved in this matter.

    So apparently, not only are they above the law as it pertains to Constitutional rights, but they are also above the law that requires them to disclose this information. (Freedom of Information Act)

    Just another example of police mis-conduct that will get buried with the hopes it "will get forgotten about". It's a shame to see this happening elsewhere in Oregon, usually it's just Portland Police every other day in the news...

    What's even worse, is that when this poor guy wins his lawsuit, it's the taxpayers who are gonna foot the bill and nobody is going to be held personally responsible for this atrocity.

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    The reason why they refused a Freedom of Information Act request is bevause they know that have broken the Law.

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    Unbelievable! They are buying time to cover some butts..

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Yup, and the Mayor saying "I stand behind them" is just like the DA in the Maxwell case saying he didn't file charges againt Jeff Maxwell "in the interest of justice" rather than telling the WHOLE truth which was that there were no charges to file because no law had been broken.

    Or maybe the Mayor figures if he stands behind the PD he won't get any smelly stuff on him when the S*(&*T hits the fan. LOL
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    This is gonna be fun! The Mail Tribune actually is doing good work here.

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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    This is gonna be fun! The Mail Tribune actually is doing good work here.
    we shall see, there hasnt been a peep since i posted this...
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Yes there has.

    Latest Mail Tribune article, complete with the voice mails they left for Mr Pyles and his 911 call up to the point they transferred him to the on scene "negotiator".

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...8/NEWS/3280325



    Here is the other thread on this issue where I just posted a link to the most recent Mail Tribune article. I don't think they're doing a very good job of investigative reporting but at least they are covering it.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...jump_to=708345
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    We-the-People wrote:
    Yes there has.

    Latest Mail Tribune article, complete with the voice mails they left for Mr Pyles and his 911 call up to the point they transferred him to the on scene "negotiator".

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...8/NEWS/3280325



    Here is the other thread on this issue where I just posted a link to the most recent Mail Tribune article. I don't think they're doing a very good job of investigative reporting but at least they are covering it.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...jump_to=708345
    this figures, i spend the day doing other things and dont check for follow up and BAM, the mail tribune is right there, a week later with a follow up.... my appologies mail tribune..... late is better than never..... thanks WTP for the back up, i shall go read this now
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    No problem, I think e-mailing the City Council is probably the best bet at this point....ALL OF THEM..... as well as the Mail Tribune and the specific reporter that is doing this story. Also keep up on Bill Myers on KMED and facebook as he's been addressing it. He's out of state at the moment but still keeping tabs.

    There are a whole lot of others that should be contacted and I posted the contact info for a bunch of them in a previous post somewhere here on OCDO (in the Oregon forum).
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Guys, don't let this slip under the rug they way they would like it to. This is an affront to any freedom loving American anywhere, and needs to be neatly laid out so all the facts are on the table for the world to see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
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    Unless Pyles has a good attorney this will be slipped under the rug just as so many other illegal actions by police.

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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    Guys, don't let this slip under the rug they way they would like it to. This is an affront to any freedom loving American anywhere, and needs to be neatly laid out so all the facts are on the table for the world to see.
    That is the key right there, "all the facts".Some will have to come directly from Pyles himself due to privacy laws, HIPAA, and his desire to not discuss his action against ODOT through his union. Neither the police agencies nor ODOT can comment on facts those items protect from disclosure.
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    Seems more facts are out there. Here is an opinion piece from the Mail Tribune...

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...306/-1/NEWSMAP

    The best choice Police acted prudently and within the law in detaining a man and taking guns April 04, 2010 The headlines are all too familiar. A disgruntled ex-employee opens fire at his former workplace, killing and maiming several people, then turns a gun on himself or is shot dead by police.

    Fears that just such a scenario might unfold here led police to surround a Medford man's home in the middle of the night, take him into protective custody while his mental health was evaluated and seize his weapons. The incident provoked widespread alarm among gun-rights advocates, who questioned how police could deprive an American citizen of his liberty and his legally purchased firearms when he had broken no law.

    We shared those concerns in the days following the incident. Now that more facts have been made public, we conclude the police acted correctly, prudently and with admirable restraint under the circumstances.

    David Jerome Pyles, 39, a planner for the Oregon Department of Transportation, was placed on administrative leave March 4. His supervisors reported his job performance and his relationship with his supervisors had deteriorated for the past year, and he was prone to verbal outbursts. They were sufficiently concerned about his potential reaction to being placed on leave that they asked two state troopers to escort him from the building.

    Over the next three days, Pyles purchased a 12-gauge shotgun, a semi-automatic assault rifle and three semi-automatic handguns.

    Police found no indication that Pyles had made threats against co-workers or anyone else. The weapons were purchased legally. Pyles had committed no crime and had no criminal record, but co-workers were sufficiently concerned by his weapons purchases that several of them left their homes and checked into motels.

    Police decided to contact Pyles to determine his mental stability. The Medford SWAT team surrounded his house — a prudent move given the small arsenal of weapons they knew he possessed.

    A trained hostage negotiator contacted Pyles by phone and asked him to submit to a mental health evaluation and surrender his weapons temporarily for safekeeping. The negotiator told Pyles he had not committed a crime and was not under arrest. Nor did police have a warrant empowering them to seize his weapons without his consent.

    What they did have, according to police reports, was probable cause to take Pyles into custody on a Peace Officer Mental Health Hold. State law allows such holds when an officer has reason to believe a person could pose a danger to himself or others.

    Pyles consented to the evaluation and surrendered his weapons. He was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center, where a psychiatrist evaluated him, concluding he was not a danger to himself or others. Pyles was released after about three hours. Four days later, police returned his weapons.

    Given the information police had about this situation, they had no choice but to respond as they did. Imagine the consequences if they had not acted quickly and a workplace shooting ensued.

    In this case, Pyles apparently intended no violence toward anyone. But police did not know that until he was evaluated. In order to accomplish that, Pyles was briefly detained and gave up his weapons for a few days.

    Some may call that trampling on his rights. We call it the best choice available.
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    I am thinking when one:

    -Gets a trained hostage negotiator called on them
    -Gets surrounded 360 degrees by SWAT
    -Get's "asked" under said circumstances

    ...that one may feel they have no choice but to comply anyways.

    Just some thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    I am thinking when one:

    -Gets a trained hostage negotiator called on them
    -Gets surrounded 360 degrees by SWAT
    -Get's "asked" under said circumstances

    ...that one may feel they have no choice but to comply anyways.

    Just some thoughts.
    there is ALWAYS a choice.... ask patrick henry
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    http://m.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.d...art&m_section=

    "On March 5, he, Undersheriff Rod Countryman, ODOT's District 8 Manager Jerry Marmon and a private security firm employee ODOT had hired temporarily met at the ODOT offices.

    According to Cicero's report, Marmon described "a declining state of mental health" that included declines in Pyles' personal hygiene and appearance and verbal outbursts."

    So when did ODOT's District 8 Manager Jerry Marmon become a psychologist? According to ODOT - http://www.odotmovingahead.com/archi...008/pdf/11.pdf - he has a BS in Environmental Science from Western Washington University and a MS in Resource Planning from the University of New Mexico.

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    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...8/NEWS/4080312

    Unsettling behavior in ODOT guns case detailed

    April 08, 2010
    Anita Burke
    By Anita Burke
    Mail Tribune

    A pattern of volatile, confrontational behavior, the purchase of five guns over three days, and reports that Oregon Department of Transportation administrators had left their Roseburg homes in fear prompted Oregon State Police to conclude that a suspended ODOT planner could be a danger to himself or others, newly released police reports say.

    Less than half an hour after sending out a teletype on March 7 asking law enforcement officers across Southern Oregon to be on the lookout for David J. Pyles, a 39-year-old planner placed on administrative leave March 4, OSP Sgt. Jeff Proulx sent out a second teletype reporting that police had a reason to take Pyles into protective custody.

    In a report released this week, Proulx lists a dozen items that led him to his decision.

    "After reviewing all this information I obtained, I amended the ATL (attempt to locate bulletin) to indicate probable cause existed to detain Mr. Pyles on a police officer's mental hold," Proulx wrote.

    That conclusion ultimately launched a Medford police negotiator and SWAT team, who took Pyles into custody at his Effie Street home early on March 8 for a mental health evaluation and took his weapons.

    Pyles was released within hours and his six guns were returned to him March 12, after he asked for them back.

    However, concerns of gun-rights and civil-liberty advocates continue to echo across talk radio and blogs. Pyles has said he still hopes to hire an attorney, but declined to comment further. He has released statements and parts of a recording he made when he was placed on paid leave March 4 over what he and ODOT officials describe as an ongoing personnel issue.

    Transportation department managers called OSP, the agency that provides security for state offices, to stand by at the office at 100 Antelope Road, White City, while administrators from Roseburg notified Pyles about the leave, say reports by OSP Sgts. Tanya Henderson and Steve Mitchell, the two officers who responded. Pyles' supervisor explained to them that Pyles had been confrontational in the past so he wanted police present. The Mail Tribune is not publishing the names of the ODOT managers because of their safety concerns.

    When the supervisor called Pyles to come into a conference room, he refused, so the officers and administrators went to his work station, the OSP reports say. He again refused to go to a conference room with them, demanding that a union representative be present if he was going to be questioned. Mitchell's report describes him as "very irrational."

    Police and ODOT representatives told him that this wasn't an investigation, so he didn't need a union rep, the reports say. Henderson's report indicates that Pyles was "very upset and sweating" when he was allowed to call a shop steward, who was out of the office for the day.

    Pyles recorded the conversation and took photographs of those present. In portions of the recording he released, he claims he doesn't trust management and repeatedly calls the proceedings an unfair labor practice. He sounds increasingly agitated as police and managers calmly repeat requests for him to go to a conference room or accept a letter at his desk.

    He read aloud the letter, which explained he was being placed on paid leave pending a fitness for duty examination by a psychiatrist chosen by ODOT.

    Police reports indicate that he signed the letter and was given time to pack his personal items.

    "During the time Pyles was packing, he had mood swings," Henderson wrote. "He would go from packing his items and being very calm and rational to at times being very vocal and at one point stepping aggressively toward" his manager until Mitchell told him to step back.

    Mitchell wrote that Pyles got upset when his manager asked about whether some binders, which Pyles said had personal information in them, had ODOT information in them.

    "This conversation upset Mr. Pyles and he became irrational again," Mitchell's report says.

    Pyles then asked for more time to collect his things, and, when it was granted, sat down with his back to the people waiting for him and put his feet up on his desk, Mitchell wrote. After about a minute, he resumed packing.

    He took more pictures as he was escorted out of the building, then loaded his things into his vehicle and left, reports say.

    Pyles called 9-1-1 a short time later to say he had been threatened at work. A deputy called Henderson about the complaint, but didn't make a report on the incident, dispatch records indicate.

    On March 5, law enforcement and ODOT officials met at the ODOT offices in White City to discuss concerns about Pyles' behavior. After hearing about verbal outbursts and slipping hygiene, Jackson County sheriff's deputy Phil Cicero asked the OSP division that does background checks for gun purchases to notify him if Pyles underwent a background check to buy firearms.

    The background check division reported that Pyles bought a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber pistol and a Remington 12-gauge shotgun March 5 at Sportsman's Warehouse in Medford, a second H&K pistol at Sportsman's Warehouse on March 6 and a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 rifle at Black Bird Shopping Center on March 7.

    At 6 p.m. on March 7, OSP, a dozen officers from the sheriff's department and Medford police met to discuss growing concerns about Pyles and his purchases.

    During the final week of February, Pyles had traveled to Roseburg to meet with a manager, Proulx's report says. When the manager refused to meet with him, Pyles went around the building to bang on the manager's window.

    Proulx wrote that he was told some of the ODOT employees involved in placing Pyles on leave feared retaliation and the department had hired a security company to monitor offices in White City and Roseburg.

    Sheriff's department investigators collected evidence from Pyles' computer and desk at ODOT offices, and Medford police started surveillance at his Effie Street home.

    State police in Roseburg were notified to look for Pyles at motels and the home of a coworker and friend.

    A teletype was sent out, at 9:24 p.m. March 7, to law enforcement across southwestern Oregon asking officers to be on the lookout for Pyles and warning of potential officer safety issues. It warned that he might be unstable and had made "concerning statements," but said he hadn't made specific threats and police didn't have a reason to arrest him.

    Proulx called three ODOT managers directly involved in putting Pyles on leave to tell them about Pyles' weapons purchases and help them make a safety plan if they wanted. The managers already knew about the guns and "left their residences that evening and stayed with friends or family because of the fear for their lives they felt," Proulx wrote.

    "Personal interactions with Mr. Pyles" and observations of his "irrational behavior" combined with the knowledge that he had just bought five guns caused them to fear for their safety and even their lives, he wrote.

    "All three of these ODOT employees felt the threat to be real," his report states.

    Proulx said upon reviewing the details, his training and experience led him to believe Pyles "was a threat to himself and or others." He amended the teletype at 9:50 p.m., sending out a second message that police had a reason to hold Pyles.

    At about 12:30 a.m. on March 8, Proulx talked again with Medford police, who were managing surveillance of Pyles' house.

    "I confirmed to them that I believed that Mr. Pyles was a threat to himself or others," Proulx wrote in his report.

    Medford police sent out the SWAT team and a negotiator just before 6 a.m. Pyles voluntarily came out of his house just before 7 a.m., was handcuffed, and agreed to point out guns and ammunition in his home so police could collect them, Medford police reports say. He was taken for a mental health evaluation at Rogue Valley Medical Center and released about three hours later after being cleared by a psychiatrist.

    Reach reporter Anita Burke at 541-776-4485, or e-mail aburke@mailtribune.com.
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Sorry for the delay, school has been whippin me.

    I saw this story and was disgusted. Some reporting huh? I say it's time the Tribune is called on the carpet for piss poor reporting.

    The police reports were politically / legally filtered before release to ensure that they said exactly what the Chief and City Council wanted them to say (probably can toss in the city attorney as well).


    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    after reading the previous op ed"opinion" piece from 4/5/10 it is no wonder the mail tribune is know for shoddy work.... they fail to realize that their first ammendment rights are ONLY guaranteed by our 2nd ammendment rights.

    if the trampling of mr pyles rights can be justified with good intentions, i hope they will recognize those same good intentions when the police come and confiscate the printers, computers and personel for the good of the community.




    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

  22. #22
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    It's because they know that the government will protect them........as long as they write what they're told.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    I, uh, thought this was America, where they couldn't take your property or treat you like a criminal until AFTER you've committed a crime... or at least I used to think that, until I got hit with a restraining order based on lies from my soon-to-be-exwife and they took all my guns away too. So, like anyone wrongfully accused, I fought it in court, only to have the ex turn on the waterworks, clinching the whole thing in her favor, and now I'm Brady'd for at least a year until I can get the R.O. removed, then a court to restore my civil rights.

    What happened to America? It used to be common knowledge that you can't legally punish people before-the-fact, and can't strip peoples' rights from them (not to mention their legal property) on the basis of what they COULD do, but ONLY on the basis of what they'd actually DONE. Not to mention that you used to have to PROVE that someone had done something before you could restrict their rights, not just merely testimony, but evidence.

    Things must have really changed from the way my parents taught me things worked...

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    TiP wrote:
    I, uh, thought this was America, where they couldn't take your property or treat you like a criminal until AFTER you've committed a crime... or at least I used to think that, until I got hit with a restraining order based on lies from my soon-to-be-exwife and they took all my guns away too. So, like anyone wrongfully accused, I fought it in court, only to have the ex turn on the waterworks, clinching the whole thing in her favor, and now I'm Brady'd for at least a year until I can get the R.O. removed, then a court to restore my civil rights.

    What happened to America? It used to be common knowledge that you can't legally punish people before-the-fact, and can't strip peoples' rights from them (not to mention their legal property) on the basis of what they COULD do, but ONLY on the basis of what they'd actually DONE. Not to mention that you used to have to PROVE that someone had done something before you could restrict their rights, not just merely testimony, but evidence.

    Things must have really changed from the way my parents taught me things worked...
    Sorry to hear that happened to you. It is truly sad when a commonly used tactic like restraining orders decided by a mere preponderance of the evidence (civil court) can take away god given rights.

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    Exactly right - although I guess that this means they're not god-given rights, if they can be stripped away so easily and without ironclad proof of anything at all...

    Anyway, off-topic rant over, we now return you to your previously scheduled thread, already in progress...

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