Front Sight

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Today we started at 730 and got done at 930 with an hour for lunch and dinner. I dida live fire house clearing, I killed all the bad guys and did not shoot the 2 good guys. We did speed drills in the morning and shotafter dark using only a flashlight this evening. I shot 350 + rounds today and was told to bring 350 + for tomorrow. I only saw 1 person OCing in town today at the grocery store about 10 PM.

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Orphan wrote:

Today we started at 730 and got done at 930 with an hour for lunch and dinner. I dida live fire house clearing, I killed all the bad guys and did not shoot the 2 good guys. We did speed drills in the morning and shotafter dark using only a flashlight this evening. I shot 350 + rounds today and was told to bring 350 + for tomorrow. I only saw 1 person OCing in town today at the grocery store about 10 PM.

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sounds like some good training. I wished I could afford it. that should be a class in High School.

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That almost sounds like military training. Which of their many courses are you taking?

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Ajetpilot wrote:

That almost sounds like military training. Which of their many courses are you taking?

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Not military, I am taking the 4 day defensive handgun class and 1 day Utah, Florida and Nevada CC class, 5 days total.

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Last day today we were tested on the range with timed turning targets at 3, 5, 7, 10 and 15 meters head shots and body shots. I scored 100 out of a possable 125 points. I never missed hitting the target but got points deducted for hitting outside of the designated shot placement area, example I shot 1 in the forehead instead of the ocular cavity and they deducted 3 points. I hit in the shoulder instead of the chestminus 5 points etc.

Before this class I could not have made 2 center of mass shots drawing from a concealed holster in 1 1/2 seconds now I can every time from 3, 5, 7 an 10 meters and most of the time from 15 meters. I am way faster and way more accurate after taking this class.

I think the class was well worth what I paid $1195.00 less the pistol $500, less the gear $100, less the cost of a Nevada CC class $100 so about $500 for 4 days. All of this is assuming you want or need the pistol, gear and the Nevada, Utah or FloridaCC class. It is deffinatly not worth the advertized $2000.00 price tag just for the 4 day class no gun gear or CC class. Several people said the only paid $500 and its worth that but not a lot more. I will not go back because you only get 1 cheap class with outbuying into their programand forking out a lot of money.

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Orphan, thank you for your review.

My dad has wanted to go and he wants me to go with him. My current schedule doesn't allow me to take that kind of time off so we may have to look at it more toward the summer or fall.

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Don't forget to count in the cost of hotel, gas for the trip, meals and ammo. If I had the spare $3000 I would do it. I just can't afford even a one day class.

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Orphan's experience sounds very much like my own, with the exception that I did shoot a 1911, and had no problems. But, then, it was my main IDPA gun, and I've got thousands of rounds through it. I think a lot of people attend those courses with guns their just breaking out of the box, and find they don't "fit" them very well.

In reference to cost, there are still a lot of cheap (~$100) certificates running around to take the courses.

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On the 1911 comment, most out of the box USGI pistols have numerous hard corners and/orprotusions in and around the grip safety and the manual safety. Also, operating the pistol all day for four days straight will rub the web of your hand as well as your thumb quite raw. I learned this the hard way at Thunder Ranch in 2000 when I took my first class.

I use a glove on my shooting hand now, with cut off finger tips. The $12 mechanix golves that Wal-Mart sells are good for this.

I attend schools as a form of vacation, and have been to Gunsite twice now, as well as Thunder Ranch Texas, and it usually costs on the order of $3k or so.

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Let's not neglect to mention, once again, that Washington's very own Firearms Academy of Seattle also does pretty good training.

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kparker wrote:

Let's not neglect to mention, once again, that Washington's very own Firearms Academy of Seattle also does pretty good training.

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I do believe that they will be my next challange.

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sirpuma wrote:

Don't forget to count in the cost of hotel, gas for the trip, meals and ammo. If I had the spare $3000 I would do it. I just can't afford even a one day class.

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I spent $500 on hotels $200 on gas $260 on ammo (9mm), I ate in my room out of the grocery store for lunch and dinner, breakfast came with the hotel. So I am going to guess I spent $2000+ total. I had to go to Kalifornia for my consulting business any way so the travel to and from would have happened anyway so the true cost is less to me.

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I took my Nevada CCW class today the instructor talked a lot about OC in Nevada and Utah in a very positive manner. I told a lot of people about OCDC, 1 guy who lives in Kali sayes he is going to start OCing . I cautioned him to get informed 1st and to get in contact with others before he starts OCing in Kali.

Any one thatis also getting a Nevada CCWshould get to the Sheriffs office as soon as they can when class gets overthey canonly do 14 people before they close, I was 14.

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Also, operating the pistol all day for four days straight will rub the web of your hand as well as your thumb quite raw.

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When I joined the unit pistol team back in 1986, The first day I was given a 1911, 1000 rounds and 10 magazines. The second day(same as the first) I added mole skin in the web of my hand. The third day I shot left handed. The fourth day I had raw thumbs, trigger fingers and webbing. They gave me 14 rounds and scored my shot placements. I made the team and shot on various other teams for the next 9 years.

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I was in 'Vegas for business, and I stayed cheap at the Saddle West. Didn't eat much more expensively than I do during a normal week, so that's about a wash. I used ammo from the basement bunker that I bought at $155/1k. Certificate from eBay was less than $100. I figure I was into the course for about $600 all inclusive, so it was quite a deal for a 4-day course.

As far as the 1911 goes, it's amazing what a beavertail safety will do to reduce the damage. When I was at Gunsite, they had "class guns" (1911's and a couple of BHP's) you could check out if your gun wasn't running, or was tearing your hands up. A lot of folks buy a gun just for the course, and never get a chance before the course to see if the 10 lpi checkering was such a good idea.

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I have not been to Front Sight but I must say that Firearms Academy is one of the best bang for the buck and close to home as well.

All training I have had with FAS and others, FAS has enough assistant instructors for every 3 to 5 students which in itself is invaluable.

The cost seems to be lower at FAS and the training is World Class along with Great Instructors and well known Guest Instructors as Massad Ayoob, Ken Hackathorn, Rob Pincus, and Chuck Taylor.

You want quality training, it is in your backyard.

http://www.firearmsacademy.com

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Dave do you own stock in FAS??? Unless you live near FAS, going to FAS or FS or Gunsite etcis just a matter of gas money and time. Hotels, foodetc are more expensive in the Seattle area. The cost of classes is about the same per day and even cheaper if you do it like SteveNH did. In my case I had business to do in LA so I was making the trip any way.

I am goingto FASnext. There are a lot of good firearms training schools out there. Going to as many as you have time and money for seems like a good idea to me. I learned things at FS that I have not learned elsewhere and I have learned things at Center Target Sports that I have not been taught at other schools, I could go on and on. The more schools anyone can go to the more well rounded you will be.

Next time youor anyone elsegoes to FAS do a post on it, I would be interested to hear about that experiance, thats all I was trying to do with this post, I am not trying to sell anyone on FS.

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Orphan wrote:

Dave do you own stock in FAS??? Unless you live near FAS, going to FAS or FS or Gunsite etcis just a matter of gas money and time. Hotels, foodetc are more expensive in the Seattle area. The cost of classes is about the same per day and even cheaper if you do it like SteveNH did. In my case I had business to do in LA so I was making the trip any way.

I am goingto FASnext. There are a lot of good firearms training schools out there. Going to as many as you have time and money for seems like a good idea to me. I learned things at FS that I have not learned elsewhere and I have learned things at Center Target Sports that I have not been taught at other schools, I could go on and on. The more schools anyone can go to the more well rounded you will be.

Next time youor anyone elsegoes to FAS do a post on it, I would be interested to hear about that experiance, thats all I was trying to do with this post, I am not trying to sell anyone on FS.

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If you thought my post was being critical of traveling afar as a bad idea, you would be wrong.

No I do not have any financial dealings with FAS just promoting a good training school.

FAS is not in Seattle, it started out there but many many years ago they moved to Onalaska, WA and they do offer classes at Norpoint in Arlington, WA.
Near by hotels offer a very good discount in Centralia and [font="Times New Roman,Georgia,Times"]Chehalis, if you have an RV you maybe able to stay on their site for nothing.

With your past training hopefully you will call and talk with Marty or Gila on what classes would best suit you as it appears you have moved through several earlier requirements to take the more advance courses.

The recommendation was met for anyone and everyone who is seeking training that at a more affordable cost then traveling across the country, if one has the time and money then by all means partake in all the training one can find, not all here can afford the cost involved.

There is good training and not so good training, and some training is better then none so attending different schools of thought or training is always a good idea.


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ScottNH wrote:

As far as the 1911 goes, it's amazing what a beavertail safety will do to reduce the damage. When I was at Gunsite, they had "class guns" (1911's and a couple of BHP's) you could check out if your gun wasn't running, or was tearing your hands up. A lot of folks buy a gun just for the course, and never get a chance before the course to see if the 10 lpi checkering was such a good idea.

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Every time I get a 1911 that doesn't have a beavertail, I immediately have one installed. Itwill make the difference in whether you like to shoot the gun or not. My personal preference is a high ridebeavertail with a "memory bump" (raised portion) for your palm, and a flat mainspring housing. All my 1911's have a beavertail on them (with exception of the rare/older one's that I won't modify).

As for taking firearms training, the more you know, the more situations you can effectively deal with. It's always smart to become more proficient with your firearms, and if you think you can't learn anything new, Iguarantee you're mistaken. There is nothing quite like on the job "training" though. I am fortunate enough to get top notch training from my Dept, but most people will never have need for the types/level of training that Police receive. Plugging holes in paper is fine, but there is a whole lot more to winning a gunfight.

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Johnny Law wrote:

ScottNH wrote:

As far as the 1911 goes, it's amazing what a beavertail safety will do to reduce the damage. When I was at Gunsite, they had "class guns" (1911's and a couple of BHP's) you could check out if your gun wasn't running, or was tearing your hands up. A lot of folks buy a gun just for the course, and never get a chance before the course to see if the 10 lpi checkering was such a good idea.

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Every time I get a 1911 that doesn't have a beavertail, I immediately have one installed. Itwill make the difference in whether you like to shoot the gun or not. My personal preference is a high ridebeavertail with a "memory bump" (raised portion) for your palm, and a flat mainspring housing. All my 1911's have a beavertail on them (with exception of the rare/older one's that I won't modify).

As for taking firearms training, the more you know, the more situations you can effectively deal with. It's always smart to become more proficient with your firearms, and if you think you can't learn anything new, Iguarantee you're mistaken. There is nothing quite like on the job "training" though. I am fortunate enough to get top notch training from my Dept, but most people will never have need for the types/level of training that Police receive. Plugging holes in paper is fine, but there is a whole lot more to winning a gunfight.

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Amen to that, most dont get the proper mind set until they live through the 1st fight. Its not something most people are born with. I hope that most of us never have to find out.