Who are you willing to defend?

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

I agree with you, in the aspect that "I don't owe anybody anything", yet I think that if you were in NEED of the help, you'd appreciate a knight.

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Appreciate, yes. Expect, no.

I would feel no ill will toward any person who chose to do nothing when I needed help. If my car gets a flat tire, I don't get mad at every person who drives by rather than stopping to change my tire (I'm practically disabled, so changing a tire is rather difficult for me).

Why? Because I realize the only person that has an obligation to change my tire is the tow truck driver contracted through my road-side service agreement.

Of course I would appreciate if someone pulled over and offered to help, though.

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I understand !

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Johnfentor wrote:

"1. Myself
2. My family
3. My friends and associates
4. Children, elderly, handicapped, and visibly pregnant women, since they probably can't do it for themselves. Note that if you LOOK over 18, or don't LOOK handicapped or pregnant, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

Given today's legal system (note that I didn't say JUSTICE system), I find it ludicrous that a complete stranger, who has taken no steps to protect themselves in a dangerous world, would expect me to risk life, limb, property and my future in order to do so for them. If you are a grown man or woman, don't expect me to do more than call 911 and be a good witness to what is happening to you. If the threat turns in MY direction, now it's on..."

John,

What you wrote is exactly correct.

I don't have a "moral obligation" to risk my life and livelyhood to help somebody who votes for politicians who "feel" sorry for criminals and then ban the law-abiding from protecting themselves. I KNOW I AM GENERALIZING, and I know that 1/3 of the people out there are liberty loving individuals, but I still don't have a "moral obligation" to protect somebody else. SCOTUS has ruled that the police don't have a "moral obligation" to risk their lives to save anybody.

My criteria:

I will go into action if people are being seriously harmed (mortal action) and it is not a police event.

I will go into action if my life is truly being threatened. At that point, collateral damage ceases toworry me. My life isworth the risk to others.

Otherwise, I will try to escape or "ride-out" the situation.

I am not trained to use lethal force. There are many scenarios that I am not trained to interpret. Using a knife, using my ability to cripple and blind, using a 2x4, or using afirearm must bethe last resort. The PERP dies or I die is my scenario ("my" includes my wife, kids, etc.)

markm

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Theseus wrote:

Sport is one thing, robbery is another. For sport, sure I might react. For a robbery I might, if capable load and wait.

Either case is mute for me at this point since I am prohibited.

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Hey Theseus,

Where do I find info regarding your case? I would like to learn from your bad fortune or mistake.

markm

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MarkBofRAdvocate, I think you are right on the money.

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demnogis wrote:

johnfenter wrote:

1. Myself
2. My family
3. My friends and associates
4. Children, elderly, handicapped, and visibly pregnant women, since they probably can't do it for themselves. Note that if you LOOK over 18, or don't LOOK handicapped or pregnant, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

Given today's legal system (note that I didn't say JUSTICE system), I find it ludicrous that a complete stranger, who has taken no steps to protect themselves in a dangerous world, would expect me to risk life, limb, property and my future in order to do so for them. If you are a grown man or woman, don't expect me to do more than call 911 and be a good witness to what is happening to you. If the threat turns in MY direction, now it's on...

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Unarmed person who does not fall into category #4 is being held at gunpoint and robbed. Obviously a life-threatening situation. You would be well within the law to chamber a round and detain the offender and/or act in defense of life.

You're armed and watch the whole thing happen. You let him walk and just "be a good witness"?

Let's add a cherry on top -- you watch the robber shoot the unarmed person (exempt from category #4) point blank.

Still just observe and report?

At what point do you feel morally obligated to help your fellow man?

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I concur. I personally believe that I have a moral and ethical obligation to defend my fellow humans. I would readily put my life between an innocent and someone wishing to harm them. Maybe they made the concious decision to not protect themselves. Maybe they didn't think about it. It really doesn't matter to me. What if they were your son, daughter, wife, husband, mother, or father? Would you have me stand by and watch them be killed?

I really don't care why they are unable to defend themselves. I really don't care why the attacker is attempting to harm them, or me. If faced with a situation where I have the cabability, firearm or not, to stop an attack upon a fellow human, I will do as little or as much as is necessary to negate that attack. And I personally believe that a life is much more important than whatever the law may throw at me for protecting that life. Even if it were Sarah Brady. Although I would probably save her life out of spite. Ha.

That said, to each his own. I will defend my life, and the lives of the people around me, to the best of my ability.

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I can happily say that I've never walked away or backed down when I've had the opportunity to defend somebody else. Even outnumbered, as long as I could take at least two scum balls to the morgue with me in defense of a victim, it would be a life well spent.

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Coming in to this discussion a little late. I'd defend the following...

1. Me, myself, and I

2. My family

3. Everybody else at my discretion.

Keeping it simple.

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I'll defend me and mine, you defend you and yours. GET A GUN!

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Pace wrote:

"Chamber a round" - i forgot, you guys can't carry one in the chamber I carry pretty much nationwide with a chambered round

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To me, I never walk around with one in the chamber. Its nerve racking for us Californians who aren't used to one in the chamber. Even though at all odds.. whats the worst that can happen. I guess accidently pulling the trigger from draw?

edit: and by walking around I mean in my house.

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Many moons ago, when I had a CCW, I carried with one in the chamber with the safety on. I carried a FEG ppk .380 semi auto. Never had an accidental discharge.

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Gundude wrote:

I'll defend me and mine, you defend you and yours. GET A GUN!

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Hey Gundude,

What you wrote is profoundly simple. Was your strategy based on Simplex veri sigilum, lex parsimoniae, or Ockams Razor?

I am adopting for myown, your rule to live by: I'll defend me and mine, you defend you and yours. GET A GUN!

markm

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MarkBofRAdvocate wrote:

Gundude wrote:

I'll defend me and mine, you defend you and yours. GET A GUN!

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Hey Gundude,

What you wrote is profoundly simple. Was your strategy based on Simplex veri sigilum, lex parsimoniae, or Ockams Razor?

I am adopting for myown, your rule to live by: I'll defend me and mine, you defend you and yours. GET A GUN!

markm

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Is that swearing? :whatr a razor advertisement. :lol:

simplex sigillum veri "simplicity is the sign of truth"

Lex Parsimoniae is Latin for “Law of Parsimony”, which pulled out into its simplest form is the The Law of what can be spared, should.

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Occam's Razor[/font]
[size=+1]one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything[/size]