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The term Unloaded

D

Dani

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I have ready the CA Open Carry Pamphlet, http://californiaopencarry.org/
But what does the term "unloaded" actually mean? Can I have the magazine loaded, and in the gun- without one in the chamber? Or does the magazine need to be away from the gun?

How is the Oakland PD with open carry?

Reason for asking is that there has been several robbed at gunpoint in downtown Oakland lately....
 
Gundude

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Oakland wrote:
I have ready the CA Open Carry Pamphlet, http://californiaopencarry.org/
But what does the term "unloaded" actually mean? Can I have the magazine loaded, and in the gun- without one in the chamber? Or does the magazine need to be away from the gun?

How is the Oakland PD with open carry?

Reason for asking is that there has been several robbed at gunpoint in downtown Oakland lately....
Click to expand...
penal code 12031 (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
 
PincheOgro1

PincheOgro1

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Gundude wrote:
Oakland wrote:
I have ready the CA Open Carry Pamphlet, http://californiaopencarry.org/
But what does the term "unloaded" actually mean? Can I have the magazine loaded, and in the gun- without one in the chamber? Or does the magazine need to be away from the gun?

How is the Oakland PD with open carry?

Reason for asking is that there has been several robbed at gunpoint in downtown Oakland lately....
Click to expand...
penal code 12031 (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
Click to expand...
People Vs Clark (1996) clarified "loaded" as having a loaded magazine in the well, and or a round in the chamber. The other penal codes refer to "gang members" in the commission of a crime, and should not pertain to a law abiding citizen.
 
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Pace

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celebrity-pictures-jonah-hill-waffle-house.jpg
 
A

Army

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So, to fully answer you;

NO ammunition can placed in a position to be fired. Meaning nothing in the chamber or cylinder, nor even a filled magazine inserted.
No law prohibits the carry of ammunition on the person...

...HOWEVER! Full magazines should not be carried in the pocket, but on the belt in their own carrier. Court decisions have determined that a loaded and concealed (in pocket) magazine can construe a loaded weapon, regardless if an actual weapon is present.

This does not pertain to loose cartridges or filled speed loaders for revolvers, as neither is an operable necessity to function the firearm.


I carry 4 magazines with a total of 40 rounds in a "piggy-back" mag holster when the .45 goes with me. 50 rounds are in the belt loops when the Sheriffs model SAA takes a ride.
 
PincheOgro1

PincheOgro1

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I thought it was loaded magazine in a pocket is considered [equivalent to] a CONCEALED weapon, because the magazine is an integral part of the gun, not sure if it is considered a loaded weapon as well.

People Vs. Hale (1974)
 
We-the-People

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This is a QUESTION NOT A STATEMENT.

With the Clark ruling doesn't that mean that a rifle (or shotgun) with one of those stock mounted shell holders is legal?

It's not in a position from which it can be fired (per Clark) and the shell holder certainly isn't an integral part of the firearm.
 
PincheOgro1

PincheOgro1

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We-the-People wrote:
This is a QUESTION NOT A STATEMENT.

With the Clark ruling doesn't that mean that a rifle (or shotgun) with one of those stock mounted shell holders is legal?

It's not in a position from which it can be fired (per Clark) and the shell holder certainly isn't an integral part of the firearm.
Click to expand...
I would think so. Basically the same as the Butt compartment.
 
wewd

wewd

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We-the-People wrote:
This is a QUESTION NOT A STATEMENT.

With the Clark ruling doesn't that mean that a rifle (or shotgun) with one of those stock mounted shell holders is legal?

It's not in a position from which it can be fired (per Clark) and the shell holder certainly isn't an integral part of the firearm.
Click to expand...

That was exactly the situation presented in Clark and the court found that the shotgun was not loaded per PC 12031.
 
We-the-People

We-the-People

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wewd wrote:
We-the-People wrote:
This is a QUESTION NOT A STATEMENT.

With the Clark ruling doesn't that mean that a rifle (or shotgun) with one of those stock mounted shell holders is legal?

It's not in a position from which it can be fired (per Clark) and the shell holder certainly isn't an integral part of the firearm.
Click to expand...

That was exactly the situation presented in Clark and the court found that the shotgun was not loaded per PC 12031.
Click to expand...

Well the way I read the Clark decision was that the shells were in a storage compartment inside the butt stock. It sounded a little strange as I don't think I've ever seen a shotgun with a storage compartment INSIDE the stock.

But yes, it seems to me that it would be the same. Of course it's also going to be an arrest and you have to go to court and hope that the court will abide by the case law.
 
wewd

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It was a SpeedFeed stock with shells inside. The case law of Clark is clear and settled and most police are now familiar with it, thanks in large part to the UOC movement. In the past UOCers were arrested or threatened with arrest due to having ammunition on their person with an exposed firearm, but cases like that are no longer much of a concern.
 
We-the-People

We-the-People

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So what if my holster is designed to carry the firearm and a spare magazine?

Can I remove the loaded magazine from the pistol (and with an empty chamber) and put it in the holster? It sits directly in front of the pistol in it's own pocket.

I don't consider it "attached" to the weapon, the holster simply holds the firearm and the magazine next to each other (with just a thin piece of material between them). The way I read the laws and what's being said, I should be okay.
 
Gundude

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We-the-People wrote:
So what if my holster is designed to carry the firearm and a spare magazine?

Can I remove the loaded magazine from the pistol (and with an empty chamber) and put it in the holster? It sits directly in front of the pistol in it's own pocket.

I don't consider it "attached" to the weapon, the holster simply holds the firearm and the magazine next to each other (with just a thin piece of material between them). The way I read the laws and what's being said, I should be okay.
Click to expand...
I use this one. It has a external pouch on the front of the holster. It's an Uncle MIke's
 
wewd

wewd

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Don't pick over the minutiae. Unless there is a round in the chamber, or a round in a magazine inserted in the mag well, it's not loaded. End of story.
 
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