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Thread: What would you do

  1. #1
    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    Yesterday while I was buying the last couple pieces of vacuum hose I needed to finish the intake manifold change on my car one of my favorite counter guys noticed I was carrying a gun. I have known this guy for a couple of years and through a casual conversation I found out I was actually stationed with his brother in the PI.

    He told me he wanted to buy a small handgun to carry but he had a domestic violence conviction and stated he would register any gun he bought.

    I explained to him that there is no such thing as handgun registration in Virginia, he asked about all the paper work that was filled out when you bought a new gun. I explained to him that was for background checks, not registration and that there was no requirement for any paperwork for private sales.

    This is where the question comes from. He then asked if I would sell him a handgun.

    I told him I would not sell him a gun period since he had told me he had a DV conviction. What would you have told him?
    If Obama is the answer; how stupid was the question?

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    It may not be illegal if it wasn't a felony, but a misdemeanor, I'm not sure...I remember something is strange about that (FFL sale rules more strict than possession rules?).

    Even so, I would really think twice about selling to someone like that. Unless I personally knew he was a changed man, I would not sell even if it was legal.

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    The subtitle on this says "questions from a felon wanting a gun", yet in the body of your story it says he isn't a felon. Ok, which is it? Assuming he really isn't a felon (of course, how would you realy know?).

    You "haveknown this guy for a couple of years". Do you really know him? Had him over to your house. Gone out to a ball game with him? Or has he just waited on you at the counter a couple of times over the past few years? If you do really KNOW him, how do you feel about him owning a gun?

    Do you really have a handgun for sale? One that you would sell to anyone else here on OCDO? Or would you have to go buy one in order to have one to sell him? (Can you say, "straw purchase"?)

    Answer those questions honestly for yourself before you decide... Those are the questions I'd ask myself before I'd sell one of mine to a person that seems reluctant toapproach adealer about buying a gun.



  4. #4
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    If a FFL wouldn't sell one to him and he's not 18-20 I wouldn't either.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    The Lautenberg Amendment prohibits possession by people convicted of felony or misdemeanor domestic violence. There is precedent from the 7th Circuit overturning the prohibition by people convicted of misdemeanor DV on 2nd Amendment grounds, but I'm unaware of any rulings by the 4th Circuit.


    U.S. v. Skoien
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...NItzUkYh5kp9Jg

    The 7th Circuit is rehearing it en banc sometime this summer.

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    DV conviction equals prohibited person in most cases. The law is convoluted. If he cannot purchase from an FFL, and you know this, selling a firearm to him would be a violation of law.

    He must get that right restored prior to firearm ownership. If he gets the Right restored, he should be able to purchase from an FFL. Steer clear.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    t33j wrote:
    If a FFL wouldn't sell one to him and he's not 18-20 I wouldn't either.
    You wouldn't sell a handgun to yourself?

    eta: for me it's a case by case basis. If the guy seems shady, I won't sell. If I know he's a prohibited person, I won't even waste my time. Remember, it's not only illegal for them to buy the gun from you, it's illegal for you to knowingly sell to a prohibited person.

  8. #8
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    If a FFL wouldn't sell one to him and he's not 18-20 I wouldn't either.
    You wouldn't sell a handgun to yourself?
    That'd be just, "If a FFL wouldn't sell him one..."

    If he's 18-20 and a FFL wouldn't sell him one (obviously), then I would sell him one (assuming no felonies etc...).
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I would have told him no. Federal law applies if you knowingly sell to a prohibited person (which include misdemeanor domestic violence convictions) , its 10 years.
    18, 922 (d) US CODE: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts
    See 18-924 for the penalties.

    And for reference sake under Virginia law if one sells or provides a firearm knowingly to a felon it is a class 6 felony.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...d+18.2-308.2C1

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    tcmech wrote:
    Yesterday while I was buying the last couple pieces of vacuum hose I needed to finish the intake manifold change on my car one of my favorite counter guys noticed I was carrying a gun. I have known this guy for a couple of years and through a casual conversation I found out I was actually stationed with his brother in the PI.

    He told me he wanted to buy a small handgun to carry but he had a domestic violence conviction and stated he would register any gun he bought.

    I explained to him that there is no such thing as handgun registration in Virginia, he asked about all the paper work that was filled out when you bought a new gun. I explained to him that was for background checks, not registration and that there was no requirement for any paperwork for private sales.

    This is where the question comes from. He then asked if I would sell him a handgun.

    I told him I would not sell him a gun period since he had told me he had a DV conviction. What would you have told him?
    It sounds kind of like this conversation had two parts.

    The first part sounds like he was willing to comply with the law, since he stated he would register the gun (even though Virginia does not have a gun registration.) You obviously would not be able to register a gun if you were unable to possess one legally.

    The second part is after he found out that private sales require no background check, he then asked you to sell him one.

    What is unclear from the post is whether or not he asked for a private sale as a result of finding out that DV convictions made him ineligible for a FFL sale.

    Only the OP who was a participant in the conversation can tell us for sure.

    As noted in all the other posts, if the guy is ineligible, then he's ineligible, to sell to him knowing that fact would not be good for your civil liberties.

    These days, I think I want to hold on to all of those I have left.

    TFred


  11. #11
    Regular Member vt800c's Avatar
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    18-20? Rights restored?
    Interesting thread. These don't apply to me, but you have my couriosity up: What is 18-20? (I'm guessing age that you can possess, but not purchase)

    How WOULD one get such rights restored?
    I sell ObamaBlades: Single-edged razors you can use to either remove the bumper sticker off your car, or slash your wrists..whichever works best for you.

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    tcmech wrote:
    Yesterday while I was buying the last couple pieces of vacuum hose I needed to finish the intake manifold change on my car one of my favorite counter guys noticed I was carrying a gun. I have known this guy for a couple of years and through a casual conversation I found out I was actually stationed with his brother in the PI.

    He told me he wanted to buy a small handgun to carry but he had a domestic violence conviction and stated he would register any gun he bought.

    I explained to him that there is no such thing as handgun registration in Virginia, he asked about all the paper work that was filled out when you bought a new gun. I explained to him that was for background checks, not registration and that there was no requirement for any paperwork for private sales.

    This is where the question comes from. He then asked if I would sell him a handgun.

    I told him I would not sell him a gun period since he had told me he had a DV conviction. What would you have told him?
    I would not sell to this guy. Walk away, just walk away.. faster...

  13. #13
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    vt800c wrote:
    18-20? Rights restored?
    Interesting thread. These don't apply to me, but you have my couriosity up: What is 18-20? (I'm guessing age that you can possess, but not purchase)

    How WOULD one get such rights restored?
    18-20 are ages. At age 18 you can purchase a handgun from a non-FFL holder from another VA resident. At age 21 you can purchase a handgun from an FFL in VA.

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    vt800c wrote:
    18-20? Rights restored?
    Interesting thread. These don't apply to me, but you have my couriosity up: What is 18-20? (I'm guessing age that you can possess, but not purchase)

    How WOULD one get such rights restored
    ?
    Depends upon location and statute. As example for felony convictions, it is dependent upon the state where the charge was handed down.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I've had the same type of conversation several times. I had one fellow ask to buy one after an OC Breakfast at River City.

    My personal feelings are that a felon isn't necessarily a criminal. Depends on what he did.

    But I always say NO. I don't need the problems!

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Whenever in doubt. . .don't sell.

    Not worth sharing a jail cell with OX and being his girlfriend. Tell the guy you aren't looking to sell, that your firearms have sentimental value or whatever. . .and move on.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

  17. #17
    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    I may have mis stated by saying felon, but the bottom line is that hetold mehe could not buy a gun because he had a domestic violence conviction.

    I don't believe that he is a criminal, but he is not allowed to possess a firearm because of that conviction.

    Even if my firearm has no sentimental value, my freedom does.
    If Obama is the answer; how stupid was the question?

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    Sounds like a set up to me

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    Regular Member apollosmom's Avatar
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    Fellow from the Libertarian table at the Hampton Show came up to me at the VCDL booth Sunday, with a fellow wearing a man dress, posing a similar situation/question to me. Told'em I wasn't a lawyer, but that is who he needs to contact. Like previous posters, that'd be a no-go at this station.

  20. #20
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    xdm guy wrote:
    Sounds like a set up to me
    Yeah, me too. Maybe an ACORN guy who suddenly has a lot of free time on his hands.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Pssst - hey buddy got a gun I kin buy. Just put it in this brake pad box and I'll give you a "refund." NOT !

    This type of thing has never struck me as funny or innocent. :X

    I think that if ever somebody were to ask me that question, I'll ask them immediately for ID.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    wrightme wrote:
    vt800c wrote:
    18-20? Rights restored?
    Interesting thread. These don't apply to me, but you have my couriosity up: What is 18-20? (I'm guessing age that you can possess, but not purchase)

    How WOULD one get such rights restored
    ?
    Depends upon location and statute. As example for felony convictions, it is dependent upon the state where the charge was handed down.
    Maybe John Conyers can help:

    Forget amnesty, look where Democrats now stoop for votes!
    Proposed law would grant Obama's party deluge of new supporters

    Democrats in Congress are pushing for a new law that would allow nearly 4 million people currently banned from voting to cast their ballot, and most of those millions, studies show, will vote Democrat.

    And where will these new voters come from?

    From the ranks of convicted felons.

    Last week, a House subcommittee heard testimony on H.R. 3335, the "Democracy Restoration Act." The bill seeks to override state laws, which vary in how they restrict when convicted felons released from prison can vote.

    The bill, sponsored by Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., and sponsored in the Senate by Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., states, "The right of an individual who is a citizen of the United States to vote in any election for federal office shall not be denied or abridged because that individual has been convicted of a criminal offense unless such individual is serving a felony sentence in a correctional institution or facility at the time of the election."

    Advocates of the bill trumpet it as a civil rights issue and a matter of freedom, while pointing out that a disproportionate number of black and Hispanic Americans have been disenfranchised by laws restricting felons from voting.

    And if that happens, a new study co-authored by criminologist Christopher Uggen of the University of Minnesota indicates, the felon vote could give many close elections to the Democrats.

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    Campaign Veteran pourshot's Avatar
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    tcmech wrote:
    What would you have told him?
    Get your rights restored and then come see me....

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    Agreed. He needs to find a good attorney who can make a plea before a judge to have his record expunged.

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