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Thread: showing your gun to a friend???

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    scenario #1:

    "frank", "jim" and you are AT YOUR HOUSE. jim says: "hey i heard alot of good about the XYZ gun and was thinking about getting one myself. mind if i take a look at yours?"
    so you unholster your gun, drop the magazine, check the chamber to make sure it's empty, and lock the slide back. then hand it over to him. LEGAL???


    scenario #2:

    "frank", "jim" and you are OUT FOR A WALK. jim says: "hey i heard alot of good about the XYZ gun and was thinking about getting one myself. mind if i take a look at yours?"
    so you unholster your gun, drop the magazine, check the chamber to make sure it's empty, and lock the slide back. then hand it over to him. LEGAL???




    so is there or is there not a law saying that i can not hand somebody who requests to see my gun a safe and unloaded gun between 2 consenting adults???




    the reason i'm asking is because at a couple of the events that i've been at now, there have been a couple guns that have gotten my attention and i would have liked to check them out and see how they feel in my hand. but i did NOT ask if i may hold them, because while i can't remember reading anything about that being illegal, i also can't remember reading anything that would make it legal.

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    I hope it's legal, I did nearly that a couple of times today while preparing to change my avatar-image. I did not clear the gun but exchanged it in Condition One.

    But I don't like the way a gunbelt ruins the drape of my blazer.

    At an 'event', in a crowd, in a less than intimate setting, I don't know that I'd be asking to fondle someone else's gun. In my study, or out in the garage, with a few old and 'old' friends and the good doctor Bombay Sapphire we might show and tell. A neighbor has a significant collection, maybe 4,000 pieces and some NFA.

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    I do not pull my sidearm out at all in public. I don't touch it, adjust it or even look at it if I don't have to. I also try and park in inconspicuous spots to load and holster. While I don't have a problem handing it off in private, I don't think the public should really view anything but a securely carried weapon. Especially at an open carry event where the media might notice and possibly catch it on tape. The anti's always like to paint us as gun brandishing cowboys and I don't think we need to give them any ammunition for that idea. That's just my opinion.


    Funny you posted this:

    I just had my sisters boyfriend ask me to pull my side arm out at a party so he could see it and I declined. Of course I wouldn't trust him with a fork but that's another mater. I can't believe he even asked that in a house full of people, some of whom I'm sure were already unsure of the whole situation of me carrying. All this after he said I needed a permit and even if I had one, my sidearm was supposed to be covered. Took me a while to explain the real laws to the people I didn't know too well but, him just being an ass all night as usual made everyone aware he is just an idiot.



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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    scorpio_vette wrote:
    so is there or is there not a law saying that i can not hand somebody who requests to see my gun a safe and unloaded gun between 2 consenting adults???




    the reason i'm asking is because at a couple of the events that i've been at now, there have been a couple guns that have gotten my attention and i would have liked to check them out and see how they feel in my hand. but i did NOT ask if i may hold them, because while i can't remember reading anything about that being illegal, i also can't remember reading anything that would make it legal.
    There is no law directly prohibiting such behavior. In Green Bay you are prohibited from displaying your firearm in a threatening manor. This is commonly refered to as brandishing. Only a hyper sensitive individual or an overly zealous officer would consider show-and-tell threatening.

    Just because you can does not mean you should. OC is not show-and-tell.

    (3) POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS OR DEADLY WEAPONS.(a) Generally Prohibited. Except as reasonably necessary to fulfill the exceptions provided elsewhere in this ordinance, no person shall carry or transport any bow or crossbow, or conceal about the person or display in a threatening manner any dangerous or deadly weapon including, but not limited by enumeration to, martial arts weapons such as throwing stars, swords, or nunchiku; slingshots; knuckles of lead, brass, or other metals; or a bowie knife, bow, or crossbow; pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun.


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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    There is no law directly prohibiting such behavior.* In Green Bay you are prohibited from displaying your firearm in a threatening manor.* This is commonly refered to as brandishing.* Only a hyper sensitive individual or an overly zealous officer would consider show-and-tell threatening.*

    Just because you can does not mean you should.* OC is not show-and-tell.*

    (3) POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS OR DEADLY WEAPONS.(a) Generally Prohibited. Except as reasonably necessary to fulfill the exceptions provided elsewhere in this ordinance, no person shall carry or transport any bow or crossbow, or conceal about the person or display in a threatening manner any dangerous or deadly weapon including, but not limited by enumeration to, martial arts weapons such as throwing stars, swords, or nunchiku; slingshots; knuckles of lead, brass, or other metals; or a bowie knife, bow, or crossbow; pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun.


    sounds reasonable enough. i personally am somewhat conflicted about the subject. on one hand i agree that at a OC "EVENT", it wouldn't be a good idea simply because of the fact that it's alot more exposed and there's going to be coverage that could be taken out of context and show a story that may not be true.

    but if i was hanging out with a couple friends (NOT at home or on one of our private property) and there is a gun in the group that i haven't held before and i'd like to see how it feels, i should be able to hold it if we are both consenting. Now for what it's worth i'd like to explain or give an example of MY reasoning to hold another gun. if i just see a gun that "looks" nice but i have no intention of buying, then i would consider it un-necessary handling. but if i was honestly looking to purchase a new firearm, and one of the models that i would like to purchase is not available anywhere locally, then i can't hold it and see how it feels. so in a case like that, if one of the people i'm hanging out with has that model in their holster, it would be nice to hold it and see how it feels.

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    Wouldn't it be a great Idea for someone to bring a camper along on such events just for such a purpose? Then people interested in checking out other firearms could do so without public scutiny.

    Also, just to pass on some info. I am aware of a portable bathroom that is sitting along side the highway and is for sale. It is a two seater ( 1 Mens, 1 womens) of the older style ( Outhouse fashion ). Just thought something like this might come in handy as right now you cannot carry a firearm into a public bathroom as it is a government owned building.

    I know many of you may think this is unrelated but what do you do with your firearm if you have to use the bathroom? Remove it? Hand it off? Encase it?

    Would be much easier if we didn't have to wouldn't it?

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Issue 1:

    Are you certain the individual is NOT a felon? Unless you are certain, handing them a firearm could put you at risk of prosecution.

    Issue 2:

    Un-holster, clear the chamber, hand it away, get it back, re-load. We have all complained on here about all the additional handling necessary when we get in and out of the car, and how all this extra handling has the potential for a ND (negligent discharge). Suggesting one go through this exercise more than absolutely necessary, in close proximity to many other people???

    Conclusion:

    In the privacy of your own home is completely different from out and about. I prescribe to: Unless I am casing it, if I draw---I fire. No possible way to be misconstrued as brandishing.

    Let's also remember the press are always all over our "events" they would like nothing more that to get us on tape passing the guns around.


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    please don't mistake what i said. i never said to do this at EVENTS.

    in my examples i used 3 people going for a walk to indicate a small personal group of friends, not an event.

    i also mentioned again later "...i agree that at a OC "EVENT", it wouldn't be a good idea simply because of the fact that it's alot more exposed and there's going to be coverage that could be taken out of context and show a story that may not be true."


    also please don't mistake this as me trying to "push" a matter that is touchy. the reason i'm asking is because it came up in conversation, and we realized that we didn't know the answer. personally when i run across a question, i like to find an answer. just because the question/answer may be something that you wouldn't do or isn't common practice doesn't mean i'm just going to pretend it never happened. I like asking questions and I like knowing answers.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    My mis-understanding.

    Again, in the home, I don't see an issue. (I have done it)

    Out walking however:

    Let's say I am a big anti-gun afraid of them type person. I see you and your friends passing the firearm around and call 911. Now you haven't done anything illegal, but you will get LEO interaction.

    My recommendation for this type of "try it to see if you like it" would be to stick to gun shops or ranges. Then we don't make the news for scaring someones grandma.

    Not intended to judge, just my opinion.


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    I would consider showing it to an "old" friend if I were in my fortress of solitude. I would not pull my smoke wagon on any account in public. Nor would I hand my sidearm to anyone I did not know for years.

    So, in a private venue, with an old friend, sure, I would be happy to pull my 1911 out, pull the mag and rack the slide emptying the chamber, leaving the slide back and show her off.



    Short of that, I don't think so.
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    No cut and dried answer to this one. Circumstances dictate the actions. On many occassions I have handed my firearm to a hunting companion as I climbed over a fence or at noon break talked and passed firearms around for myself amd others to look at. When I was a firearms dealer numerous times customers would handle and even dry fire weapons I had for sale. When you attend a gun show hundreds of people handle firearms they don't own. On the other hand taking a firearm out of it's holster while in a public place for any reason, other than self protection, is a reflection of immaturity. Another example: While showing a firearm to one or two friends while in your private residence certainly is not illegal, doing so during a party when alcohol is being served certainlywould bean error in judgement. Common sense must prevail.

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    ETA: not answering back to Lammie.

    There is an interesting and divergent idea of friend developing here.

    If I called someone "friend" then I would have no problem handing him a Condition One gun. Handing over an unloaded and locked open piece is done to a cop or someone untrusted. It would border on insult, like showing your shoe sole or greeting Shalom Alecheim.

    Maybe you could zip-tie it open as is done at a gun show because they don't trust their "friends". Or jam it open with a pencil like a cop does because he doesn't trust his new "friend".

    Never refuse a breath mint. Never wipe your hand before or after a handshake.

    Beware the paradigm; consideration, expectation, requirement.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    ETA: not answering back to Lammie.

    There is an interesting and divergent idea of friend developing here.*

    If I called someone "friend" then I would have no problem handing him a Condition One gun.* Handing over an unloaded and locked open piece is done to a cop or someone untrusted.* It would border on insult, like showing your shoe sole or greeting Shalom Alecheim.*

    Maybe you could zip-tie it open as is done at a gun show because they don't trust their "friends".* Or jam it open with a pencil like a cop does because he doesn't trust his new "friend".

    Never refuse a breath mint.* Never wipe your hand before or after a handshake.

    Beware the paradigm; consideration, expectation, requirement.
    Dougie, do as you please but I would never hand a loaded gun to anyone. Trust is one thing but it has a lot less to do with trust than avoiding a regrettable accident.

    The hunting example is the exception to the rule but even then it would have to be a good and long time friend.

    Further, I would not be around folks who are drinking, even if it is from a snifter, handling and handing a loaded gun around.

    This is just my way. No disrespect meant.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

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    hardballer wrote:
    Dougie, ... This is just my way. No disrespect meant.
    I wonder what is the diminutive of "hardballer"? I'm sure you meant no disrespect.

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    NEVER release a loaded firearm from your control, NEVER. That is an accident waiting to happen.

    If you want to see it, I unload it EVERY TIME. I won't take a loaded gun from you either.

    Even while hunting, always unload!

    There was just an article in the paper not to long ago, guy gave his gun to the girl friend, long story short she ended up getting shot.

    Always cleared and unloaded before handing it to anyone!


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    Hardballer and Lammie bring up good points. i wasn't even thinking of alcohol involvement, because i wouldn't even think to handle let alone anybody else handle one if there is alcohol involved.

    personally friend or no friend, i would NEVER hand over a LOADED firearm.


    Lammie also makes a good point with the stores and gun shows. which is why i had said DROP MAGAZINE and EMPTY CHAMBER WITH SLIDE OPEN. that's where the responsibility of the owner comes in. in the case of a store, i consider them the "owner", and EXPECT them to hand me a unloaded and slide locked open gun. there have been occasions where a sales person has actually handed me a gun out of the case WITHOUT checking it, at which point i would immediately drop the magazine and lock it open and check the chamber. i'm actually surprised that there are sales guys that will hand over "close" firearms without checking them.


    so from what i'm seeing so far people seem to have slightly different opinions, but largely feel that it's "not quite appropriate" to be seen handling it in places other than your home.

    that's kinda what i was thinking. from a "if firearms were commonly accepted" viewpoint, then it might not be as much of an issue. but with this topic being quite "on edge" in the public, it's better not to be seen handling it.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Beware the paradigm; consideration, expectation, requirement.
    Presuming the friendly and mutual understanding of LOADED, MUZZLE, TRIGGER,& TARGET; to what accident is reference being made? Are there more requirements of safe gun handling than just four and that are not just rehashes of them?

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Presuming the friendly and mutual understanding of LOADED, MUZZLE, TRIGGER,& TARGET; to what accident is reference being made? Are there more requirements of safe gun handling than just four?
    This is one case where I must agree with Doug. I can think of many scenerios where I would not (do not) clear my weapon before I hand it in condition 1 to a competent friend at the range, in the field and at a residence. A public OC event is not one of these, but there are many applicable scenerios.



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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    ETA: not answering back to Lammie.

    There is an interesting and divergent idea of friend developing here.

    If I called someone "friend" then I would have no problem handing him a Condition One gun. Handing over an unloaded and locked open piece is done to a cop or someone untrusted. It would border on insult, like showing your shoe sole or greeting Shalom Alecheim.

    Maybe you could zip-tie it open as is done at a gun show because they don't trust their "friends". Or jam it open with a pencil like a cop does because he doesn't trust his new "friend".

    Never refuse a breath mint. Never wipe your hand before or after a handshake.

    Beware the paradigm; consideration, expectation, requirement.
    Did you mean to say Assalaam Alaikum?

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    You know, the idea that unloading a firearm before handing it out to someone for inspection being an insult is ludicrous.

    I consider being handed a loaded firearm as a sure sign of someone I do not want to be around much longer. It is personally insulting to me that they are ignorant of or do not understand proper gun handling etiquette.

    I was a carpenter for many years and was working on a fellas roof. Job done, check in hand, we got to BSing about guns and his target range on his farm as well as the fact that he could shoot the deer from his kitchen window.

    I enjoy the conversation and he says, hey, you wanna see my Russian sniper rifle? I say yeah, love to. He brings it out with an 1895 Winchester. I asked if they were unloaded, he says always. Neither having been cleared by him. I take the sniper rifle, a nice example of a Russian Dragonov SVD, I check to see if it is unloaded and sure enough it is. Next I pick up "Big Medicine" The 1895 in 45-70 and operate the lever, a big ole' round drops out onto the floor and another is poised for chambering.

    I immediately hand it back to him, he with a sheepish grin on his face takes it back to it's resting place. His wife who witnessed the whole thing gives him the evil eye and apologizes to me. Not her fault, not my fault but it would have been tragic had my SOP not been to check every gun and to treat every gun as if it were loaded till I have personally verified it is not.

    To align trust or some good ole' boy system with it being OK to hand someone a loaded gun in must situations is ridiculous. In condition one, even more unbelievable. However; this does point up the difficulty in gaining a consensus on any gun issue.

    You may get through your whole life with a careless philosophy like that and not harm anyone however; you may influence someone else who does not have the marvelous ability to always be right and seriously, they may not have your towering intellect either, and their judgement may not be as wise and true as yours.

    They may just shoot their wife, kid, friend or their friend may just shoot them. Why, because some arrogant, elitist, screwball know-it-all said it was OK to pass around a loaded gun without first clearing it.

    Again, this is not about trust but rather, proper, prudent gun handling.

    I can agree with handing someone a loaded gun at the firing range or while hunting but that is about it. Personally, I don't do it. Anywhere else or any other circumstances just don't add up.

    I'm not impressed that you would do such a thing Doug, I am forewarned.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I've learned my lesson about handing people loaded guns.

    Outside of a shooting range, I can't think of anybody I trust enough to hand a loaded firearm.

    I know exactly what to do, but most people are likely to slip up somewhere.

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    One more thing. Presume (to take liberties or act with too much confidence) is like assume and you know what happens when you assume (accept without verification or proof) , you make an azz out of U and Me.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

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    hardballer wrote:
    You know, the idea that unloading a firearm before handing it out to someone for inspection being an insult is ludicrous.

    I consider being handed a loaded firearm as a sure sign of someone I do not want to be around much longer. It is personally insulting to me that they are ignorant of or do not understand proper gun handling etiquette.

    I was a carpenter for many years and was working on a fellas roof. Job done, check in hand, we got to BSing about guns and his target range on his farm as well as the fact that he could shoot the deer from his kitchen window.

    I enjoy the conversation and he says, hey, you wanna see my Russian sniper rifle? I say yeah, love to. He brings it out with an 1895 Winchester. I asked if they were unloaded, he says always. Neither having been cleared by him. I take the sniper rifle, a nice example of a Russian Dragonov SVD, I check to see if it is unloaded and sure enough it is. Next I pick up "Big Medicine" The 1895 in 45-70 and operate the lever, a big ole' round drops out onto the floor and another is poised for chambering.

    I immediately hand it back to him, he with a sheepish grin on his face takes it back to it's resting place. His wife who witnessed the whole thing gives him the evil eye and apologizes to me. Not her fault, not my fault but it would have been tragic had my SOP not been to check every gun and to treat every gun as if it were loaded till I have personally verified it is not.

    To align trust or some good ole' boy system with it being OK to hand someone a loaded gun in must situations is ridiculous. In condition one, even more unbelievable. However; this does point up the difficulty in gaining a consensus on any gun issue.

    You may get through your whole life with a careless philosophy like that and not harm anyone however; you may influence someone else who does not have the marvelous ability to always be right and seriously, they may not have your towering intellect either, and their judgement may not be as wise and true as yours.

    They may just shoot their wife, kid, friend or their friend may just shoot them. Why, because some arrogant, elitist, screwball know-it-all said it was OK to pass around a loaded gun without first clearing it.

    Again, this is not about trust but rather, proper, prudent gun handling.

    I can agree with handing someone a loaded gun at the firing range or while hunting but that is about it. Personally, I don't do it. Anywhere else or any other circumstances just don't add up.

    I'm not impressed that you would do such a thing Doug, I am forewarned.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    On the other hand, once the gun is unloaded, I'm not too afraid of guns in the presence of alcohol.

    Responsible people can use alcohol responsibly. Irresponsible people probably should avoid both guns and alcohol. It's all up to the person. The alcohol is not the deciding factor.

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    hardballer wrote:
    You know, the idea that unloading a firearm before handing it out to someone for inspection being an insult is ludicrous.

    I consider being handed a loaded firearm as a sure sign of someone I do not want to be around much longer. It is personally insulting to me that they are ignorant of or do not understand proper gun handling etiquette.

    I was a carpenter for many years and was working on a fellas roof. Job done, check in hand, we got to BSing about guns and his target range on his farm as well as the fact that he could shoot the deer from his kitchen window.

    I enjoy the conversation and he says, hey, you wanna see my Russian sniper rifle? I say yeah, love to. He brings it out with an 1895 Winchester. I asked if they were unloaded, he says always. Neither having been cleared by him. I take the sniper rifle, a nice example of a Russian Dragonov SVD, I check to see if it is unloaded and sure enough it is. Next I pick up "Big Medicine" The 1895 in 45-70 and operate the lever, a big ole' round drops out onto the floor and another is poised for chambering.

    I immediately hand it back to him, he with a sheepish grin on his face takes it back to it's resting place. His wife who witnessed the whole thing gives him the evil eye and apologizes to me. Not her fault, not my fault but it would have been tragic had my SOP not been to check every gun and to treat every gun as if it were loaded till I have personally verified it is not.

    To align trust or some good ole' boy system with it being OK to hand someone a loaded gun in must situations is ridiculous. In condition one, even more unbelievable. However; this does point up the difficulty in gaining a consensus on any gun issue.

    You may get through your whole life with a careless philosophy like that and not harm anyone however; you may influence someone else who does not have the marvelous ability to always be right and seriously, they may not have your towering intellect either, and their judgement may not be as wise and true as yours.

    They may just shoot their wife, kid, friend or their friend may just shoot them. Why, because some arrogant, elitist, screwball know-it-all said it was OK to pass around a loaded gun without first clearing it.

    Again, this is not about trust but rather, proper, prudent gun handling.

    I can agree with handing someone a loaded gun at the firing range or while hunting but that is about it. Personally, I don't do it. Anywhere else or any other circumstances just don't add up.

    I'm not impressed that you would do such a thing Doug, I am forewarned.

    X2.

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