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  1. #1
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    So I am sick obamacare passed... now i am worried about how much extra they will charge gun owners, some rumors are 500 a gun... anyone heard anything?

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    I don't know. All my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident in the pond on my "back forty"
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    This is just another government giveaway for the lazy people of this country at the expense of the hard working people. It does nothing to address the ridiculous cost of everything related to health care. It just gives the gov one more avenue of control on the sheep of this once great country.

    We need to vote out every traitor that voted in favor of this.

    Its time for a change!

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    John Wolver wrote:
    So I am sick obamacare passed... now i am worried about how much extra they will charge gun owners, some rumors are 500 a gun... anyone heard anything?
    Yeah, a couple of things. One, the first thread with this title was locked for good reason. The answer to your question is plainly in the bills passed. Here,

    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/SenateHCBill.pdf

    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/ReconciliationHC.pdf

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    John Wolver wrote:
    So I am sick obamacare passed... now i am worried about how much extra they will charge gun owners, some rumors are 500 a gun... anyone heard anything?
    Yeah, a couple of things. One, the first thread with this title was locked for good reason. The answer to your question is plainly in the bills passed. Here,

    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/SenateHCBill.pdf

    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/ReconciliationHC.pdf
    "Plainly in the bills passed"??? What an impenetrable mess of argle-bargle they both are. However, I did finally dig up the "Individual Mandate" and read the preamble to that section, which cited (what else) the Interstate Commerce Clause as justification, plus a SCOTUS finding that insurance is "Interstate Commerce".

    So, forcing people to buy something is "Interstate Commerce"? Weak, weak, weak; yet is is the linchpin of the whole deal. Take away this illegal diktat, and the rest of this garbage falls into a pile of junk. Let's hope Virginia and the other States' suits demolish it.

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    KansasMustang wrote:
    I don't know. All my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident in the pond on my "back forty"
    Yeah, sorry about that. I can't believe we both had our guns on that boat.

    I guess driving a boat once when I was four doesn't mean I should drive one again, huh?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    "Open up! Environmental Protection Agency WARRANT!" We have reason to believe, a public announcement of pollution, that you are an armed felon. Prepare to be assimilated as Soylent Green.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    "Open up! Environmental Protection Agency WARRANT!" We have reason to believe, a public announcement of pollution, that you are an armed felon. Prepare to be assimilated as Soylent Green.
    Finally, I was just waiting for healthcare to pass before publishing my new cookbook titled, "To Serve Man OOPS I mean Soylent Green" When the Feds screw this one up there should be plenty of dead to supply the soylent factories. Oh I think I'm gonna be sick!

    Defensor out



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    so,...could somebody please explain to me why we are not bringing our guns to Washington for the A2 march??

    We should be bringing rope and torches too at this point.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    so,...could somebody please explain to me why we are not bringing our guns to Washington for the A2 march?? We should be bringing rope and torches too at this point.
    If you are going to DC then you should treat it as hostile controlled territory and your Rules Of Engagement prohibit armed encounters with the hostiles.

    Spit on them instead. Fly their national ensign inverted. Show them your shoe soles. Moon them. Send them personalized caganers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caganer.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    jgregel wrote:
    This is just another government giveaway for the lazy people of this country at the expense of the hard working people.
    My experiences from around the country have definitely lead me to believe that many people who work more than hard enough to deserve health care don't make enough money. Working construction 80 hours a week with a diabetic who couldn't afford insulin or pills is the sort of thing that can open your eyes to the possibility that something is wrong with the way health care is structured.

    I am not saying that universal health care or any other option is the best one, because my field of expertise is cars, building trades and guns, so I am not for or against this new law. Hell, I haven't even read it yet. But I do know that it's not all about laziness, not even close.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    so,...could somebody please explain to me why we are not bringing our guns to Washington for the A2 march??

    We should be bringing rope and torches too at this point.
    Because we have too much to lose. We value our iPods and our IRAs more than we do our freedom and limited government.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Michigander wrote:
    jgregel wrote:
    This is just another government giveaway for the lazy people of this country at the expense of the hard working people.
    My experiences from around the country have definitely lead me to believe that many people who work more than hard enough to deserve health care don't make enough money. Working construction 80 hours a week with a diabetic who couldn't afford insulin or pills is the sort of thing that can open your eyes to the possibility that something is wrong with the way health care is structured.

    I am not saying that universal health care or any other option is the best one, because my field of expertise is cars, building trades and guns, so I am not for or against this new law. Hell, I haven't even read it yet. But I do know that it's not all about laziness, not even close.
    +1

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    I think I am going to be sick for about a week.



    How depressing is this?



    From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/2...dup/index.html

    The Democrats did it. President Obama and Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi battered and cajoled a majority of Democrat House members to pass one of the most far-reaching and expensive entitlement programs in our history. The speaker said Sunday, "We're doing this for the American people."

    It would be far more correct if she said we're doing what we think is best for the American people. According to polls, most Americans don't want this plan. But what we want certainly doesn't matter to Pelosi and those "smart Congress people" in Washington who think they know more than we do.

    The elderly on Medicare will see their benefits changed dramatically. The biggest item being used to pay for the new program is more than $500 billion in cuts to the Medicare program at a time when 72 million baby boomers become eligible for it in the next decade. The second biggest move to pay for this is by raising and expanding the Medicare tax.





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    Faceplant wrote:
    I think I am going to be sick for about a week.

    Â*

    How depressing is this?

    Â*

    From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/2...dup/index.html

    The Democrats did it. President Obama and Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi battered and cajoled a majority of Democrat House members to pass one of the most far-reaching and expensive entitlement programs in our history. The speaker said Sunday, "We're doing this for the American people."

    It would be far more correct if she said we're doing what we think is best for the American people. According to polls, most Americans don't want this plan. But what we want certainly doesn't matter to Pelosi and those "smart Congress people" in Washington who think they know more than we do.

    The elderly on Medicare will see their benefits changed dramatically. The biggest item being used to pay for the new program is more than $500 billion in cuts to the Medicare program at a time when 72 million baby boomers become eligible for it in the next decade. The second biggest move to pay for this is by raising and expanding the Medicare tax.

    I won't speak on the legislation as I haven't even bothered to read a single word of it, but when I see stories that use this phrase I have to laugh:

    "most Americans don't want this plan"

    And? Other than show you just how much our elected officials are afraid of losing their jobs due to the ignorance of their constituents, how is this relevant?

    "MOST" Americans are uninformed, uneducated, and base their opinions off sound bytes and rumor. "Most" Americans don't even know we have three branches of government. We are a Constitutional Republic and our officials are supposed to do what is "BEST" for the people, not what the masses do or do not like. Especially when most of them are clueless in the first place.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    OCforAll wrote:
    Faceplant wrote:
    I think I am going to be sick for about a week.



    How depressing is this?



    From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/2...dup/index.html

    The Democrats did it. President Obama and Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi battered and cajoled a majority of Democrat House members to pass one of the most far-reaching and expensive entitlement programs in our history. The speaker said Sunday, "We're doing this for the American people."

    It would be far more correct if she said we're doing what we think is best for the American people. According to polls, most Americans don't want this plan. But what we want certainly doesn't matter to Pelosi and those "smart Congress people" in Washington who think they know more than we do.

    The elderly on Medicare will see their benefits changed dramatically. The biggest item being used to pay for the new program is more than $500 billion in cuts to the Medicare program at a time when 72 million baby boomers become eligible for it in the next decade. The second biggest move to pay for this is by raising and expanding the Medicare tax.

    I won't speak on the legislation as I haven't even bothered to read a single word of it, but when I see stories that use this phrase I have to laugh:

    "most Americans don't want this plan"

    And? Other than show you just how much our elected officials are afraid of losing their jobs due to the ignorance of their constituents, how is this relevant?

    "MOST" Americans are uninformed, uneducated, and base their opinions off sound bytes and rumor. "Most" Americans don't even know we have three branches of government. We are a Constitutional Republic and our officials are supposed to do what is "BEST" for the people, not what the masses do or do not like. Especially when most of them are clueless in the first place.
    Nobody but a socialist uses a word like "masses" to describe the voters. Folks, here is another Ubamanista troll who joined last week, with no location given.. And from the tone and the "Styles", guess who I think it is?

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    Alexcabbie wrote:

    Nobody but a socialist uses a word like "masses" to describe the voters.Â* Folks, here is another Ubamanista troll who joined last week, with no location given..Â* And from the tone and the "Styles", guess who I think it is?

    Well, I guess I could follow up by calling you ignorant, but I since I don't know you I'll just say that your statement is ignorant. Because it is.

    In case you don't know how to find a dictionary:

    mass -noun :the masses, the ordinary or common people as a whole

    I believe my use of the phrase "the masses" was apt, if you disagree then perhaps you could articulate your view in a way other than that of a buffoon.

    And in case you missed class that day, Socialism relates to workers and production, not medicine. You may want to research what you say before you speak. You may also want to educate yourself on just what a Constitutional Republic is, and how it differs from a true democracy.



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    We ign'nant masses is glad we has the govmint and democrats to takes care o' us, cuz we is to dumm to takes care o' usselves.

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    Michigander wrote:
    jgregel wrote:
    This is just another government giveaway for the lazy people of this country at the expense of the hard working people.
    My experiences from around the country have definitely lead me to believe that many people who work more than hard enough to deserve health care don't make enough money. Working construction 80 hours a week with a diabetic who couldn't afford insulin or pills is the sort of thing that can open your eyes to the possibility that something is wrong with the way health care is structured.

    I am not saying that universal health care or any other option is the best one, because my field of expertise is cars, building trades and guns, so I am not for or against this new law. Hell, I haven't even read it yet. But I do know that it's not all about laziness, not even close.
    Its mostly about choices in life. Yeah, sure once in a while someone totally undeserving gets dealt a bad hand but the truth is that most people just spend more than they can make, have more kids than they can afford, have a bigger house than they can afford and in general are stupid with their income. They don't think twice about buying a big TV or going down to the football game and blowing a couple hundred bucks or for most or us buying that new gun we wanted. But when it comes to the important things they suddenly don't have the money.

    I say this all the time, there are very few people that I ever feel sorry for. Most people create their own problems and then bitch about them and how hard life is. I plan ahead, I look for potential pitfalls that will screw me later and I avoid spending on stuff I don't need. My wife and I drive 10yr old vehicles and my shoes are pretty tattered but I have money for when we need it. We take care of the important things first.

    Too many people don't look at the consequences of their decisions and their actions. They screw themselves. Everyone here talks about being in condition yellow, alert and watching out for potential dangerous situations and then they go to condition white with the rest of their lives.

    I agree that health care is way over priced and something needed to be done about it but this bill is so packed full of garbage it stinks. If you are offended by my saying that this is another government giveaway for lazy people then that's OK because it is.

    No one gave me anything when I was growing up. My wife and I lived in a one room apartment while we put ourselves through college. We had nothing extra but we survived. It took me 9.5years to get a bachelors degree in engineering going to night school and working full time during the day as a welder. My wife worked full time in the summers at a local grocery store and she even took a job as a spot welder for a summer and we saved everything she made to pay for her education. We made good choices in life and now have a little extra 20 years later.

    If you are working 80 hours a week and can't make ends meet you have made bad choices in your life or you are one of the few unlucky ones mentioned above. I know several people that imigrated to this country with nothing, worked their asses off, sacrificed a lot and are doing fine. One of them couldn't even speak English when he got here!

    OK, I'm liberally applying a flame retardant gel over my flame resistant underwear. So lets here it.

    John

  20. #20
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    OCforAll wrote:
    Alexcabbie wrote:

    Nobody but a socialist uses a word like "masses" to describe the voters. Folks, here is another Ubamanista troll who joined last week, with no location given.. And from the tone and the "Styles", guess who I think it is?

    Well, I guess I could follow up by calling you ignorant, but I since I don't know you I'll just say that your statement is ignorant. Because it is.

    In case you don't know how to find a dictionary:

    mass -noun :the masses, the ordinary or common people as a whole

    I believe my use of the phrase "the masses" was apt, if you disagree then perhaps you could articulate your view in a way other than that of a buffoon.

    And in case you missed class that day, Socialism relates to workers and production, not medicine. You may want to research what you say before you speak. You may also want to educate yourself on just what a Constitutional Republic is, and how it differs from a true democracy.

    Thank you for confirming my suspicions, although reading your previous postings already did that. Ronald Reagan, by the way, viewed that particular definition of the phrase "the masses" in the same way I do.

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    eye95 wrote:
    We ign'nant masses is glad we has the govmint and democrats to takes care o' us, cuz we is to dumm to takes care o' usselves.

    Reading stuff like this reminds me of when I walked out of the movie theatre after seeing Dogma. All over the place were Christians with their banners protesting the movie because they don't like people poking fun at their god. Yet what they failed to recognize was that they were protesting the very law, and system, that protects their freedoms to worship the way they do.

    Here we have 2A advocates who claim to love the constitution and want their rights, yet don't bother to understand why it is our country not operate on what the majority of people want? You DO NOT WANT the elected officials voting based on what "MOST" Americans do or do not want, because if that were the case you eventually would lose your right to own a gun.

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    OCforAll wrote:
    Alexcabbie wrote:

    Nobody but a socialist uses a word like "masses" to describe the voters.Â* Folks, here is another Ubamanista troll who joined last week, with no location given..Â* And from the tone and the "Styles", guess who I think it is?

    Well, I guess I could follow up by calling you ignorant, but I since I don't know you I'll just say that your statement is ignorant. Because it is.

    In case you don't know how to find a dictionary:

    mass -noun :the masses, the ordinary or common people as a whole

    I believe my use of the phrase "the masses" was apt, if you disagree then perhaps you could articulate your view in a way other than that of a buffoon.

    And in case you missed class that day, Socialism relates to workers and production, not medicine. You may want to research what you say before you speak. You may also want to educate yourself on just what a Constitutional Republic is, and how it differs from a true democracy.

    Thank you for confirming my suspicions,Â*Â* although reading your previous postings already did that.Â* Ronald Reagan, by the way, viewed that particular definition of the phrase "the masses" in the same way I do.Â* Â*
    The only suspicion I've confirmed for you is that you are ignorant to the subject. I'm new to the board and my IP address will confirm that.

    Ronald Reagan also knew about arms being sold to Iran, a country which not even 10-years prior took and held Americans hostage. And he lied about it. He also cheated on his first wife, and did a number of other things that make him just as much a fallible human being as the rest of us. Your point?

    Again, if you disagree with my opinion then articulate an intelligent response.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    OCforAll wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    We ign'nant masses is glad we has the govmint and democrats to takes care o' us, cuz we is to dumm to takes care o' usselves.

    Reading stuff like this reminds me of when I walked out of the movie theatre after seeing Dogma. All over the place were Christians with their banners protesting the movie because they don't like people poking fun at their god. Yet what they failed to recognize was that they were protesting the very law, and system, that protects their freedoms to worship the way they do.

    Here we have 2A advocates who claim to love the constitution and want their rights, yet don't bother to understand why it is our country not operate on what the majority of people want? You DO NOT WANT the elected officials voting based on what "MOST" Americans do or do not want, because if that were the case you eventually would lose your right to own a gun.
    Maybe. But what the overwhelming majority DO want, and moreover what is REQUIRED, is that the government follow the Constitution and the law. The "individul mandate" to buy insurance (or else) is "justified" by a "finding" that insurance is "interstate commerce" and that by lief of their authority to "regulate commerce" they are thereby authorized to force you to purchase a thing. Doug has given a link to the bill, wherein this ludicrous reasoning is clearly outlined.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    You are new to Ohio, Styles. Miss Connecticut, much?

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    jgregel wrote:
    snip
    Let me ask you one important question. What other parts of the USA have you worked in aside from the mid west? Military experience, vacations, and perhaps short business trips don't count.

    Particularly, have you ever worked any where near the southern border?

    Are you completely and utterly certain that aside from a few idiots, and a few extremely unlucky people, that it's pure stupidity and laziness that cause a lack of health care?

    I personally think the bulk of the problem is the fact that people in the US are too stupid and short sighted to be tighter at the borders both with immigrants and foreign products. This is the idiocy that can be blamed for the wage crisis, which can also be blamed for the fact that health care is unobtainable for so many people.

    You mentioned that you did welding, which is an interesting topic. A couple fairly good welders I know are making 12 bucks an hour these days, when they have work. Blue collar wages aren't what they used to be.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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