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Thread: Health care and Guns.......

  1. #1
    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    Just a though.....Would love to here some opinions...

    With the passing of the health care bill, could that affect gun owners? They could state that guns in the home could be harmful to your health or your families health....the examples they would use would be irresponsible gun owners leaving their guns were their children can have access and have an accidental shooting....or taking the gun to school. Or when their is an accidental discharge when handling or cleaning the gun and someone is hurt. All these scenario's would lead to a emergency room visit, affecting the cost of health care. This idea was brought to my attention and i could see this being a real possibility.

    Would love to hear other opinions.
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    REMOVE. There is nothing whatsoever in the bill that mandates people's lifestyles, gun ownership, or anything like that. Anyone who told you this is lying through their teeth.

    I am not for the health care bill for many reasons, but let's not add things that have nothing to do with gun control. People who say this have their own agenda and are trying to get the gun lobby to talk more about this.

    If you are upset about the government's big spending, I'd focus on this, social security, defense budget and join the www.lp.org





    jimd_21 wrote:
    Just a though.....Would love to here some opinions...

    With the passing of the health care bill, could that affect gun owners? They could state that guns in the home could be harmful to your health or your families health....the examples they would use would be irresponsible gun owners leaving their guns were their children can have access and have an accidental shooting....or taking the gun to school. Or when their is an accidental discharge when handling or cleaning the gun and someone is hurt. All these scenario's would lead to a emergency room visit, affecting the cost of health care. This idea was brought to my attention and i could see this being a real possibility.

    Would love to hear other opinions.

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    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    Wow Pace.....It was a thought that has been circulating....

    Nothing in my post said it came from the bill or any legislator. This is a theory....

    Wow.....LMAO
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    What bothers me is that the anti-health care people (insurance companies in this case) circulate rumors that have nothing to do with the bill in order to get people like us on their side.

    If you are against the health care bill, that is a valid point. What happens is that the politicians come out and make things up -- on both sides, to get people riled up. I posted elsewhere, have you ever met anyone at the TEA PARTY who says they are against health care, but when you ask if their welfare or social security (same thing) is taken away, they get defensive?

    The problem with the health care debate is that its complete fake on both sides. The republicans are claiming it will create a public health care system that will fall apart. It doesn't at all. If you have health insurance with your employer, you keep it. The other side says it will make affordable health care for everyone... probably not true, because it still requires people to pay even if they can't.

    As for guns, has nothing to do with guns.





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    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    The only reason i bring this up is history......Prohibition for one.....Tobacco was ok until it was bad to and now see how tobacco products are taxed...and are linked to lung cancer. How long before their will be a prohibition on tobacco. And I can see them trying to hit alcohol after they get tobacco. (drunk driver fatalities....liver failure....)..

    Reminds me of a movie....Demoliton Man....

    Just my 2 cents
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    Dude, alchohol, guns, tobacco are all taxed federally

    jimd_21 wrote:
    The only reason i bring this up is history......Prohibition for one.....Tobacco was ok until it was bad to and now see how tobacco products are taxed...and are linked to lung cancer. How long before their will be a prohibition on tobacco. And I can see them trying to hit alcohol after they get tobacco. (drunk driver fatalities....liver failure....)..

    Reminds me of a movie....Demoliton Man....

    Just my 2 cents

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    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    Yea they are....So how long does the federal gov keep taxing them before they take them away.....And if they can take them away what stops them from taking anything else away....

    Dude I asked for opinions...not a defensive stand...I will entertain Opionions, not show of force. To ask to have this removed from your first post without a honest opinion about the posibility....show's a real lack of respect.
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    Pace is right: There is nothing in the PP&ACA [Health Care Act] thatauthorizes this kind of discrimination.

    But then again, there is nothing I am aware of in federal law that prohibits an insurance company from demanding higher premiums from persons that they consider to be at greater risk because of issues involving guns. This was the case before the bill passed, and as far as I know, still is.

    This could have been addressed in the bill: sadly, it went out the window with bipartisan reform.

    Don't get me wrong -- I like the PP&ACA. But if both parties participated constructively, it could have been better.

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    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    Pace is right....but rude about getting his word out....

    So what is to stop the insurance companies from charging higher rates for gun owners? Can we count on the fed gov to regulate this according to the 2A?
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    I believe there will be a required schedule of fees for private insurance plans for single people or families, insurance companies will not be allowed to change them.

    That being said, a private business can do what it wants (usually, this changes it) and if they don't want to insure gun owners, its their prerogative. I don't see that happening because insurers use charts which tell them how much to charge (or they used to) and owning a gun, doesnt make it more expensive... actually legal gun owners usually have less accidents, crime, etc.

    Sorry for being rude.

  11. #11
    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    Forgiven Pace....


    Ok if they can deny coverage for gun owners.....with this new bill everyone has to be insured....will that affect their charts or will it be a non issue?
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    Pace wrote:
    Dude, alchohol, guns, tobacco are all taxed federally
    The difference being, that the individual is not obligated to purchase alcohol, guns, or tobacco.

    Enormous, cataclysmic difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
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    Regular Member jimd_21's Avatar
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    I can see not being obligate to purchase alcohol or tobacco....but guns.....Wow how un-american..... Sorry but learned how to shoot along time before i was able to hunt. I believe buying a gun whether it be a pistol, rifle, shotgun should be a requirement.

    As far as insurance...i am not a welfare junkie...i have a well paying job and have insurance through my employer.
    Beware of the Beast Within..... Under God one Nation will be returned to its Foundation!

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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    Dude, alchohol, guns, tobacco are all taxed federally
    The difference being, that the individual is not obligated to purchase alcohol, guns, or tobacco.

    Enormous, cataclysmic difference.
    Cataclysmic to the point that if the purchase mandate stands, The Constitution is officially dead.

    Dare I say it? It is time for a constitutional convention. The main argument against one is that it could destroy The Constitution. However, two branches of government have already disposed of it. Unless the third performs its check as intended, a convention can do no more damage than has already been done.

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    eye95 wrote:
    Cataclysmic to the point that if the purchase mandate stands, The Constitution is officially dead.

    Dare I say it? It is time for a constitutional convention. The main argument against one is that it could destroy The Constitution. However, two branches of government have already disposed of it. Unless the third performs its check as intended, a convention can do no more damage than has already been done.
    I might agree to this end. Several states will be moving to correct this injustice. If it fails, then frankly, it is on the people to correct.


    I am absolutely disgusted that these so called human beings, and so called representatives feel they can chuck the desires of their constituents out of the nearest airlock.

    The Federal Government is on autopilot America. WAKE THE F&^% UP!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    The gov tried prohibition......ONCE.

    Probably never again. They'll go back door.

    If your doc is the anti gun, turn 'em in type, time to change docs.

    Anyways, I lost ALL of my guns in the great canoe wreck on the Rolling Fork river some years ago. I have a sling shot with right side missing.

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    Sounds like everyone is being reactionary.

    Didn't you know we've been doing these things for yeasrs? We have been forced to pay social security for 60+ years, we've been forced to pay for other kid's eduction. My kids go to private schools and I have to pay for other kids education.

    Think outside the box, there are much worse problems than health care. Health care is a small percentage of the problems we have with BIG GOVERNMENT.



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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Cataclysmic to the point that if the purchase mandate stands, The Constitution is officially dead.

    Dare I say it? It is time for a constitutional convention. The main argument against one is that it could destroy The Constitution. However, two branches of government have already disposed of it. Unless the third performs its check as intended, a convention can do no more damage than has already been done.
    I might agree to this end. Several states will be moving to correct this injustice. If it fails, then frankly, it is on the people to correct.


    I am absolutely disgusted that these so called human beings, and so called representatives feel they can chuck the desires of their constituents out of the nearest airlock.

    The Federal Government is on autopilot America. WAKE THE F&^% UP!
    Remember, a clear majority of those polled were either for the bill, or against it because they believed it did not go far enough. Only 42% were against it because they felt it went too far.

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    Most of the republicans actually proposed the same exact thing a few years ago.

    The issue is that there isn't ANYONE in congress who thinks government is really too big. They all do the same thing.

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    The Donkey wrote:
    Remember, a clear majority of those polled were either for the bill, or against it because they believed it did not go far enough. Only 42% were against it because they felt it went too far.
    Remember, quite a few "representatives" have told their constituents that they "knew what was good for them".


    Houston, we have a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    They can't hurt me much if any, and I still detest it being rammed down our throats. I have my own insurance, Medicare and SSincomes plus my retirement from an oil company.

    In my jail, I never tell inmates 'because I can'. That's what guv is doingto us'because they can'.

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    You are typical, you resent this being rammed, but you still want SS & Medicare? Huh?

    It's all being "rammed" down your throats. health care, war, welfare, public education

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    No. It's all being rammed down our throats. The ponzi SS is paying off for me and my generation who had no choice. But I will get the part I paid.....others won't.

    My retirement from an oil co.....I earned and it comes with dental and health for $70 a month. I had a 401 and am still comfortable.....future generations won't.

    Quit paying taxes. You don't have to. Answer onlyONE question on the census.

    I've been fighting for many years (I carried a gun in 1955 on my paper route) when I was 13 years old.

    Been there, done that.....my actions spoke for my life.

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    Pace wrote:
    You are typical, you resent this being rammed, but you still want SS & Medicare? Huh?

    It's all being "rammed" down your throats. health care, war, welfare, public education
    I am typical. Absolutely.

    Nobody has sued the government over the Government going to war for what they deem to be an "illegitimate war". The people have not reclaimed their government.

    I am not on welfare. Thanks for the commentary though.

    Public Education is optional. Don't like that? Too bad. It's the truth.


    Social Security is horrendously broken, and people take advantage of it all the time, despite the process being ridiculously drawn out, and the claims process absolutely absurd. Don't overestimate the patience of lazy people to abuse a system I guess.


    Almost every branch of the government for which we are taxed, is hideously run, extremely inefficient, and in no way shape or form a positive reflection on the efficiency of our nation.

    Ever tried to get a claim for VA assistance? Yeah, that craps so easy right? The VA doesn't even have .1% of the amount of people that this garbage bill mandates, and they struggle every day to do anything efficiently.

    And you validate the implementation of a healthcare bill that first and foremost has no constitutional basis whatsoever for its inception, and will inevitably end up with the vast majority of the nation to depend on it.


    Let's see:

    The Feds tax tobacco via interstate commerce. However, you aren't forced to purchase cigarettes, let alone everybody elses.

    The Feds tax alcohol via interstate commerce. However, you aren't forced to pay for everybody elses booze.


    Under what specific authority does the Federal Government believe it possesses the power to mandate the purchasing of non-government products?


    I have to laugh at the fact that some people who are clapping in support of this bill are incapable of processing the unconstitutional nature of the bill, yet vehemently swear to uphold the Constitution.

    Amazing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  25. #25
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    I'm not sure what you are saying, are you agreeing with me.

    It's all rammed down our throat, you have to pay for social security, for welfare, for medicare, its in our taxes when we get checks for working.

    Public education isn't optional, you have to pay for it, even if you dont use it!!

    What are you talking about? We are being forced for health care, but we are forced for all the other things, they aren't "optional"

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