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Thread: New Alcohol Law - How To Find Restaurants

  1. #1
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    I've received a number of emails and private messages here askinghow someone can find out what restaurants concealed cary licensees can legally carry - AFTER July 1st, 2010.

    I have created an example of exactly how to find those locations for your city on my CHL Site. Hit the link below:

    http://www.nm-ccw.com/Beer&Wine.html

    Remember, you can not drink alcohol while carrying a firearm in NM. The NMAC is being updated to state exactly that.

    Under the current NMAC, it states you can not carry while impaired. The lowest level of DUI impairment [that's the standard those carrying firearms are held to] that has judicial notice in NM - as of November 2009 is .02 on alcohol alone. However, Gov. Richardson has mandated the NMAC be modified to state specifically that you can not drink alcohol while carrying.

    I hope that helps everyone find the data.

    Steve Aikens




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    Thanks Steve. That is interesting....it clearly shows how many restaurants we were forbidden from carrying concealed in (legally) prior to the new law being passed.

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    Interesting. Thanks for this.

    Is there a difference between the "Liquor Control" vs "Liquor Club" for a resturant ?

    The reason Iask this is becuase 1 resturant in Aztec NMthat appears on the "Liquor Control" list has a bar and sells hard liquor and mixers, not just beer & wine....

    I don't eat there anymore, but it's good to know... - Mike

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    What is the name of the restaurant?

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    Rubios Mexican Resturant

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    1 of3 things has happened.

    Either Rubio's recently updated their license for a full dispenser license and the system is yet to be updated - or the divison has an error.

    Or Rubio's is selling full alcohol without owning a full dispenser license - HIGHLY unlikely.

    Liquor Control - Restaurants are supposed to be 60/40 beer and wine licensees.

    The bottom line here is actually pretty simple. If you know or find out that a place sells hard alcohol stay out - or if you've gone in - get out and either go somewhere else -or disarm before you enter/go back in.

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    The promulgation hearing was Friday the 23rd of Apr.

    There was no opposition to the changes in the NMAC mandated by Gov. Richardson. Read teh change at the link below.

    http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement....16_Ammend.pdf

    Steve Aikens

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    So, the current law says that you cannot be impaired by alcohol, and carry.

    The new law will say that you can be 3 sheets to the wind and carry as long as you didn't have the gun when you got that way?

    Set gun down, get wasted, pick gun up.

    Politicians are so smart.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Hardly.

    The Statute already ties you to the lowest level of impairment, held to the DUI standard.

    The lowest level of impairment that has judicial notice in NM is .02 for alcohol only.

    The change was requested by the Restaurant AssociationBoard to make it clear that you cannot drink while carrying in their establishments, which clears them of liabiliy in the event someone orders a beer while carrying and something happens.

    If you were in NM, and understoond our law, you would know that.



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    steveaikens wrote:
    Hardly.

    The Statute already ties you to the lowest level of impairment, held to the DUI standard.

    The lowest level of impairment that has judicial notice in NM is .02 for alcohol only.

    The change was requested by the Restaurant AssociationBoard to make it clear that you cannot drink while carrying in their establishments, which clears them of liabiliy in the event someone orders a beer while carrying and something happens.

    If you were in NM, and understoond our law, you would know that.
    I'm trying to understand.

    Trading a law that says you can't be impaired for one that says it's ok just as long as you didn't have the gun when you got that way, doesn't make sense.

    But if you want to take it personally, that's fine too.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Not personal. It is what it is. Ihave been working on firearms law in NM's legislature since 1989. Over the years, people from other states - that haven't taken time to actually read our Statutes so they would understand what they were posting about - have continually posted erroneous information that makes NM look like they have no clue to what they're doing with their firearms laws and make unfounded comments. They're wrong. We DO know what we're doing and are making slow, positive changes to our firearms laws to benefit everyone, as we can get changes made in our VERY liberal legislature. From FL, it's pretty hard for you to know that.

    Your comment was one of those posted without actually knowing what's in our Statute or Administrative Code, and based on only the new Amendment to the Administrative Code. Your comment is dead wrong. We didn't "trade" anything. Since I happen to be the guy responsible for getting the change to the Statue made and have been watching DPS like a hawk so they don't overstep the authority the Gov. gave them to make ONLY that change - I most certainly want to set the record straight with regards to that change when I see someone that doesn't understand it post something that's so far from the fact of law here.

    Iferroneous information is not corrected, and people that may come to NM read it thinking they can drink or be impaired and carry - they're at great risk of a firearms charge against them here. The change to the Administrative Code was only to make it crystal clear that you cannot drink and carry. For reasons I won't go into, the only words we allowed added to the Administrative Code without a fight were "Consumption of alcohol prohibited. No person shall consume alcohol while carrying a concealed handgun.". Nothing else changed.

    Steve Aikens

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    [sigh]

    I'm reading the Original Post.

    I actually am quite familiar with the law... But the Post says...

    Oh, nevermind.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Mr Steve Aikens,May. 2, 2010

    I myself have learned to better appreciate your excellent arguments concerning Firearms in New Mexico, especially in light of your Liberal State Legislature.

    As I understand it, based on my reading of SB 40 of New Mexico Law, one with a New Mexico Concealed Carry License, or its equivalent from another State that New Mexico shares in reciprocity, may Carry a Concealed Firearm into an Establishment that sells Alcohol for Consumption on-premises, provided, thatHe does not drink Alcohol.

    Is my analysis correct? I trust that you are the premiere Person on any New Mexico-related Firearms thread to discuss this with, based on my previous experience.

    Furthermore, being in how I am from Gerogia, I wish to share something with you. The GeorgiaGeneral Assembly just passed SB 308. This Bill allows Carry, Openly or Concealed by a License Holder, into Bars, provided; the Bars' Owner consents. This Bill also allows anyone in any Public Placeto Drink Alcohol while Armed, even Openly or Concealed, at any Restaurant or Bar, anywhere, provided; a Person does not Discharge the same Firearm He is Carrying, unless under Self-Defense.

    Unlike new Mexico, Restaurant Carry in Georgia has now been Legal here for 2 years. Bars Carry and AlcoholConsumption while Carrying will become Legal here, effective immediately, should The Governor ofGeorgia sign this Bill, which He has already inferred thatHe will.

    My question is, aside from the question posted above in paragraph 3, why is New Mexico an Open Carry State, unlike Georgia, but so strict on Carry around Alcohol? It seems strange to me to say that one may walk down a Street with a Openly carried Pistol, or any other Firearm, and all is well, but, should He go into, say, Wal-Mart, then, He is Guilty of a Fourth DegreeFelony. Unless of course, He has a Concealed CarryPermit and He Conceals before entering, provided, we are assuming the Firearm is a Handgun.Is there any significant event that happened to prompt the New Mexico Legislature to more-less bar Firearm-Alcohol combinations, or is this just a by-product of logic?


    Why was the strict language prohibiting Drinking while Armed incoporated into the Bill?You mentioned that you had to watch the Department of Public Safety..., or something to that effect..., from trying to ursurp the Legislative Process. Would you elaborate on that, please?

    Thank you again,

    aadvark

    P.S.1: ***Personally, because of the potential ramifications that may well be involved, I do not fully condone Drinking Alcohol while Armed in Public. The Law will allow this behavior, provided; one does not Discharge a Firearm while Drunk, less, of course, Self Defense. Seeing as how you wrote Handgun Law (from what I understand), you know Georgia's Self Defense Law, or atleast studied it at one time.***

    P.S.2, per (Post and Thread under Georgia Topic Senate Bills 291 and 308 advance): One could even Drink Alcohol while Armed, as 16-11-127(f) would be repealed as well, however: ***I do not advise Drinking Alcohol while Armed with a Firearm in Public, and a Prosecutor might try to make a Disorderly or Reckless Conduct Charge (16-11-39/16-5-60)out of it, but it may or may not be succesful under 16-11-173.


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    aadvark wrote:
    Mr Steve Aikens,May. 2, 2010

    I myself have learned to better appreciate your excellent arguments concerning Firearms in New Mexico, especially in light of your Liberal State Legislature.

    As I understand it, based on my reading of SB 40 of New Mexico Law, one with a New Mexico Concealed Carry License, or its equivalent from another State that New Mexico shares in reciprocity, may Carry a Concealed Firearm into an Establishment that sells Alcohol for Consumption on-premises, provided, thatHe does not drink Alcohol.

    Is my analysis correct? I trust that you are the premiere Person on any New Mexico-related Firearms thread to discuss this with, based on my previous experience.
    Almost correct. That establishment mustderive 60 percent or more of it's gross receipts from food sales and that establishment may not have a full dispenser license [can't sell mixed drinks]. That's the resaon I posted this original thread. There have been numerous questions on how one would know which of those establishments. The original post contains a link to a page on one of my firearms sites that outlines exactly how to do that.

    Furthermore, being in how I am from Gerogia, I wish to share something with you. The GeorgiaGeneral Assembly just passed SB 308. This Bill allows Carry, Openly or Concealed by a License Holder, into Bars, provided; the Bars' Owner consents. This Bill also allows anyone in any Public Placeto Drink Alcohol while Armed, even Openly or Concealed, at any Restaurant or Bar, anywhere, provided; a Person does not Discharge the same Firearm He is Carrying, unless under Self-Defense.

    Unlike new Mexico, Restaurant Carry in Georgia has now been Legal here for 2 years. Bars Carry and AlcoholConsumption while Carrying will become Legal here, effective immediately, should The Governor ofGeorgia sign this Bill, which He has already inferred thatHe will.

    My question is, aside from the question posted above in paragraph 3, why is New Mexico an Open Carry State, unlike Georgia, but so strict on Carry around Alcohol? It seems strange to me to say that one may walk down a Street with a Openly carried Pistol, or any other Firearm, and all is well, but, should He go into, say, Wal-Mart, then, He is Guilty of a Fourth DegreeFelony. Unless of course, He has a Concealed CarryPermit and He Conceals before entering, provided, we are assuming the Firearm is a Handgun.Is there any significant event that happened to prompt the New Mexico Legislature to more-less bar Firearm-Alcohol combinations, or is this just a by-product of logic?
    New Mexico is an open carry state as a result of no one "poking the porcupine". The Constitution allows it and the Statutes are silent on openly carrying. Anything in the Constitution where the Statutes are silent is consider prima facie evidence that the fact stated is without restriction. If there is a restriction, such as our Constitution states "nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons", it must be spelled out. If someone challenges the Constitution in the legislature to change that - you can trust me when I tell you that they will go down in flames. Over and above the issue of personal protection from two-legged predators, NM has ranches, farms, deserts, high prairies, mountains and forests. We have a lot of no-legged and four legged predators we need to be able to protect ourselves from. Firearms of some sort are historically the tool of choice for that protection throughout the state. It is rare indeed to see a cattleman on horseback that is not armed here. The current Statute is a by-product of logic. It is my intention that in a few years, we will re-visit the current Statute to improve on it to include full dispenser licensees. If the legislature chooses to restrict bars, I personally have no problem with that. I personally firmly believe alcohol and fireams do not go thogether. However, I don't work on firearms law to suit my own personal preference. If - for example - the NMSSA membership wants me to work for bars as well, I'll do what I can. I will NOT allow a good bill that expands our privileges by the state to go down the toilet if allowing that kind of restriction will get the bill passed. We can always work to change it later if we get a bill to change - passed. Incrementalism works if we are patient. More below.

    Why was the strict language prohibiting Drinking while Armed incoporated into the Bill?You mentioned that you had to watch the Department of Public Safety..., or something to that effect..., from trying to ursurp the Legislative Process. Would you elaborate on that, please?
    Pretty simple really. We have a very liberal legislature that is incredibly anti-firearms. Every time I bring a change to the table, we hear tales of blood in the streets in the committee hearings as well as from the House and Senate floors. And let me be clear - though I do bring specific issues to legislators for introduction, our NRA lobbiest, Tara Mica is the legal beagle that works her butt off to bring important positive changes to our legislators as well, and at that point, I am her expert witness for those changes and lobby for her billsas well. We work as a team.
    Once we make a change in our legislature from the liberal to the conservative, we will be able to further improve our firearms laws. We have been working with a democratically controlled legislature far too long in NM.

    Thank you again,

    aadvark

    P.S.1: ***Personally, because of the potential ramifications that may well be involved, I do not fully condone Drinking Alcohol while Armed in Public. The Law will allow this behavior, provided; one does not Discharge a Firearm while Drunk, less, of course, Self Defense. Seeing as how you wrote Handgun Law (from what I understand), you know Georgia's Self Defense Law, or atleast studied it at one time.***
    Thanks for mentioning http://www.handgunlaw.us I founded the site and browbeatour research guru, Mr. Gary Slider, into co-owning it with me. Without Gary, there wold be a site, but there's no way it would be a competent adn up-to-date as it is.

    P.S.2, per (Post and Thread under Georgia Topic Senate Bills 291 and 308 advance): One could even Drink Alcohol while Armed, as 16-11-127(f) would be repealed as well, however: ***I do not advise Drinking Alcohol while Armed with a Firearm in Public, and a Prosecutor might try to make a Disorderly or Reckless Conduct Charge (16-11-39/16-5-60)out of it, but it may or may not be succesful under 16-11-173.

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    aadvark - I apologize,I failed to answer your question about watching DPS likea hawk regarding changes to the Code.

    DPS has lattitude to make some changes to the Administrative Code when required by a change in ourStatute or when requested by the Gov. We learned some years back that they have a tendency to expand those requested changes to incorporate restrictions they want, but have not been authorized to make.

    An example of that just occured Apr 23rd. Because UT has nohandgun proficiency requirement in their CCW licensing Statute, they can not be recognized by NM. When DPS was required to change the Admin Code, they also removed honors from UT. So far, so good. That was a required change. However, by the time I got to Clovis, from the promulgation hearing in Santa Fe and checked the DPS site to verify they had posted the honors withdrawal of UT, I found they had a statement that NM no longer honored any state except TX, with whom NM has an established recipricol agreement with. Had no one been paying attention, NM would no longer honor any other state permits.

    The statement that NM only had one official agreement was accurate. That would be because the DPS CCU has refused to acknowledge any other requests for such an agreement - regardless of how many times a state made those requests. The latest state that has happened to is KS. I am personally aware of no less than three requests for an agreement that DPS has not yet acknowledged. We're working on fixing that, but as anything dealing with firearms in NM - it takes time.

    Steve Aikens

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    Mr. Steve Aikens:

    Thank you again for your tireless efforts in ensuring that The Second Amendment is well preserved for future generations throughout The State of New Mexico.

    I now better understand the finer points of The Politics that one must endure during Session should anyone want to improve New Mexican Firarm Law.

    Unfortuantely, it is sad to hear that many Legislators there are uber-Liberal.

    Based on your article, I was able to find out why New Mexico never seemed to have a bona-fined Firearms Preemption Statute, unlike many other States throughout The United States of America. The Firearms Preemption Statute is The New Mexican Constitution itself, Section 6 of Rights of Persons. This is different from my home State of Georgia where the Firearms Preemption Statute is incorporated with all of the other Statutes under Law.

    It is good though that you also managed to divert a potential tragedy by making sure that The New Mexican Department of Public Safety did not abuse their Authority, similiar as to how this was done with Concealed Weapons Permits from other States. Understandibly, in addition to time, it may well take a Legislative Enactment of Law to force The Department to enter into Reciprocital Agreements with other States concerning Concealed Carry Licensses.

    Similiar to one of your closing arguments, The Georgia General Assembly, every single year, hears tales of 'Blood-in-the-Streets' whenever they go to make any change, no matter how minor, to any currently exsisting Firearm Law in Georgia. Georgia just repealed its 140 year old Public Gatherings Law 16-11-127, pending its approval by The Governor. Imangine a Law that said New Mexicans may Carry their Firearms in Public, but not a Public Gathering! The difference between the two-no one knows!

    This reminds me, in an effort to make good on the New Mexican Open Carry Firearms Thread, is it Legal to Carry a Firearm into a Public Building in New Mexico? There are conflicting sources of information on this area. Some sources say it is Legal, others sya it is not Legal. Please clarify on this again, in an effort to be sure.

    Aside from this, are there any other topics that may need to be addressed?

    Thank you,

    aadvark

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    It is legal in NM to openly carry anywhere it is not posted, or prohibited by Statute. There is no restriction on state or public buildings other than courts etc, that are also restricted for concealed carry.

    The only difference between open or concealed carry is the alcohol restriction which is slowly being improved for licensees. Once we get that worked out for licensees, the intent is to work on doing the same for open carry. I have a little trouble separating the privilaged from the rights we all are supposed to have, but that's better served in a different discussion in a different platform. My personal views are not what's gemmane to an open carry - or concealed carry forum for that matter.

    DPS did attempt to promote that state building were off-limits on their web site but we got that corrected in short order - once I had time to make a call.

    Steve Aikens



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    Mr. Steve Aikens, of Clovis New Mexico:

    That is what I thought concerning Public Buildings in New Mexico as well!

    I will inform Georgia Carry to update their Website to reinforce this, as it currently depicts Public Buildings as off-limits throughout New Mexico.

    Fortunately, there are Persons, such as yourself,who watchto ensure that Authority is not abused.

    Unfortunately, as with Restaurant Carry, New Mexico has to take baby-steps to accomplish any Firearm-related goal, due to The Liberal Legislature.

    In Georgia, a Republican State with a Republican-dominated Legislature, Georgia Carry marches in with any Firearm wish, and 9 times out of 10, it is granted!

    As always,

    aadvark

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