Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
UPDATE March 23, 2010: http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/mar/23/prosecutor-decision-in-open-carry-case-near
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Just a few thoughts - the article below implies the Defendant was essentially loitering near or at a store and a previous article from another news outfit claimed he was was "belligerant" when ejected from a mall for open carrying.
Of course I take these allegations with a grain of salt - but just pause and consider them for a moment as if they are true.
If your goal is to either avoid prosecution from vague laws like Washington's scary carry statute, or simply promote gun rights by normalizing holstered gun carry in everyday life, or both, then you should strive todo neither of these things - small facts mean big things when you are carrying a gun.
Don't loiter - If you are loitering near a store front, or even look like it, it can easily and reasonably be said you are casing the establishment - see the Terry v. Ohio case establishing the gold standard for when police may seize you and pat you down for weapons and disarm you - the store was being cased by bad guys hanging about.
Don't be beligerant when asked to leave a private establishment - they have every right to ask you to leave and you should immediately beat feet with a smile on your face.
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http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/mar/23/prosecutor-reviews-man-with-gun-case
SNIP
By John Branton
Columbian staff writer
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
A man who was ticketed for wearing an openly displayed pistol outside an Albertsons shopping center on Friday was packing a total of 35 bullets — including those loaded in the holstered .45-caliber gun and in two ammunition clips.
But Kurk Robert Kirby, 26, made no menacing statements or gestures to anyone at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd., police say. He simply stood around near stores for 10 to 15 minutes before someone called 911, according to a Vancouver Police Department report.
On Monday, Kevin McClure, supervising prosecutor with the City Attorney’s Office, said he was reviewing the police reports and had not yet decided what to do in the case.
The ticket alleges that Kirby committed the crime of unlawful carrying of a weapon, a gross misdemeanor that carries, if a person is convicted, a sentence of up to one year in jail and a $5,000 fine, McClure said.
But Kirby’s attorney, Christopher Dumm of Vancouver, said the officer who issued the ticket made an error.
“We’re confident Mr. Kirby didn’t break any law,” he said. “Washington is an open-carry state.”
He added: “The police deserve my respect and they have it, but nobody is perfect and mistakes are made.”
. . .
Meanwhile, the case has generated many comments on the Internet and is being monitored by groups and blogs in the open-carry movement.
Activists with the movement have been making visibly armed appearances such as Kirby’s in several states, to make the point that they believe the practice is legal and constitutionally protected.
Such comments can be read on Open Carry.org, which calls itself “a pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.”
. . .
The Vancouver police report says officers were called to the strip mall shortly after 4 p.m. Friday, because a store owner had watched Kirby standing around wearing his gun.
. . .
Kirby’s wife, Dawn Kirby, walked up and told officers she was wearing a concealed gun and had a permit for it, the report said.
Checking computers for the minivan the Kirbys arrived in, officers learned that the pair had staged an open carry the day before at Westfield Vancouver mall, the report said. Security officers had escorted them from the mall and reported they had been “belligerent.”
After receiving a copy of the ticket, Kirby “said he did not understand what the ‘big deal’ was because he had gone to about 10 different stores in the last several months with his gun in plain view and no one had ever complained,” the report said.
Kirby didn’t mention being told to leave the mall the day before, police said.
. . .
UPDATE March 23, 2010: http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/mar/23/prosecutor-decision-in-open-carry-case-near
--
Just a few thoughts - the article below implies the Defendant was essentially loitering near or at a store and a previous article from another news outfit claimed he was was "belligerant" when ejected from a mall for open carrying.
Of course I take these allegations with a grain of salt - but just pause and consider them for a moment as if they are true.
If your goal is to either avoid prosecution from vague laws like Washington's scary carry statute, or simply promote gun rights by normalizing holstered gun carry in everyday life, or both, then you should strive todo neither of these things - small facts mean big things when you are carrying a gun.
Don't loiter - If you are loitering near a store front, or even look like it, it can easily and reasonably be said you are casing the establishment - see the Terry v. Ohio case establishing the gold standard for when police may seize you and pat you down for weapons and disarm you - the store was being cased by bad guys hanging about.
Don't be beligerant when asked to leave a private establishment - they have every right to ask you to leave and you should immediately beat feet with a smile on your face.
---
http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/mar/23/prosecutor-reviews-man-with-gun-case
SNIP
By John Branton
Columbian staff writer
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
A man who was ticketed for wearing an openly displayed pistol outside an Albertsons shopping center on Friday was packing a total of 35 bullets — including those loaded in the holstered .45-caliber gun and in two ammunition clips.
But Kurk Robert Kirby, 26, made no menacing statements or gestures to anyone at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd., police say. He simply stood around near stores for 10 to 15 minutes before someone called 911, according to a Vancouver Police Department report.
On Monday, Kevin McClure, supervising prosecutor with the City Attorney’s Office, said he was reviewing the police reports and had not yet decided what to do in the case.
The ticket alleges that Kirby committed the crime of unlawful carrying of a weapon, a gross misdemeanor that carries, if a person is convicted, a sentence of up to one year in jail and a $5,000 fine, McClure said.
But Kirby’s attorney, Christopher Dumm of Vancouver, said the officer who issued the ticket made an error.
“We’re confident Mr. Kirby didn’t break any law,” he said. “Washington is an open-carry state.”
He added: “The police deserve my respect and they have it, but nobody is perfect and mistakes are made.”
. . .
Meanwhile, the case has generated many comments on the Internet and is being monitored by groups and blogs in the open-carry movement.
Activists with the movement have been making visibly armed appearances such as Kirby’s in several states, to make the point that they believe the practice is legal and constitutionally protected.
Such comments can be read on Open Carry.org, which calls itself “a pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.”
. . .
The Vancouver police report says officers were called to the strip mall shortly after 4 p.m. Friday, because a store owner had watched Kirby standing around wearing his gun.
. . .
Kirby’s wife, Dawn Kirby, walked up and told officers she was wearing a concealed gun and had a permit for it, the report said.
Checking computers for the minivan the Kirbys arrived in, officers learned that the pair had staged an open carry the day before at Westfield Vancouver mall, the report said. Security officers had escorted them from the mall and reported they had been “belligerent.”
After receiving a copy of the ticket, Kirby “said he did not understand what the ‘big deal’ was because he had gone to about 10 different stores in the last several months with his gun in plain view and no one had ever complained,” the report said.
Kirby didn’t mention being told to leave the mall the day before, police said.
. . .