Round in the chamber?

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stainless1911 wrote:

By the time you realise what has happened and chambered a round, the BG has 3 or 4 rounds in the air, and they are coming at you.

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[flash=560,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/OwGNzZaISP0&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash]

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mrsemman wrote:

I carry the S&W M&P 40C with one in the chamber. As a retired police officer, I can attest that when you carry a firearm, and a situation occurs, that situation happens too fast to comprehend or think what to do. Unless you are behind solid cover, and have the time to rack a round, you may not have a chance to even pull your weapon.

As you stated, the M&P models have a trigger safety, which is something I had no personal experience with, until now. Do not stage, that is pull on the trigger until you are ready to fire, because you might discharge prematurely.

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I also have an M&P 40 and its trigger is slightly shorter in its travel than Glocks - my primary carry gun is one of my Glock 23's.

When an attack comes, it can come so quickly that you're operating on instinct. Anything in the way will be an impediment to your safety. I do not wish to give precious seconds to my adversary.

Thanks for your input.

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I was in a situation one time where someone threatened to shoot me, then someone else ran back (out of my view) into the house. At the time, the only retreat I had would have turned my back to the situation ... no way was I going to do that!

Cops were on the way.

The only problem is that I carried in Condition 3 at the time and the DA tried to claim I escalated the situation by racking a round. I did not show the weapon, I did not claim that I was going to do anything either ... only that I was not going to turn my back on someone who said they were going to get their gun and shoot me.

I have carried Condition 1 ever since then.

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okboomer wrote:

... The only problem is that I carried in Condition 3 at the time and the DA tried to claim I escalated the situation by racking a round. I did not show the weapon, I did not claim that I was going to do anything either ... only that I was not going to turn my back on someone who said they were going to get their gun and shoot me.

I have carried Condition 1 ever since then.

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It seems with DA's you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I bet if you had carried in Condition 1 that night the DA would have criticized that as being overly zealous to be ready (and willing/wanting) to discharge your firearm! I have heard people recommending not carryingsingle actionpistols because DA's demonize them for needing less actions to go off. When will lawyers wake up and realize 1) The type/model/style of gun is rarely an issue and 2) Prosecuting or defending a client isn't supposed to be about twisting the truth but finding it. I think their careers are judged too much on win/loss of their cases rather than correct verdicts.

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45acpForMe wrote:

Prosecuting or defending a client isn't supposed to be about twisting the truth but finding it. I think their careers are judged too much on win/loss of their cases rather than correct verdicts.

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Herein lies one of the biggest problems with our justice system. It boils down to a contest between 2 manipulative liars to see who is better at twisting facts to persuade a flock of 12 sheeple. Truth is bastardized &/or lost in the process.

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Definately, one in the tube.

Carried the 1911 concealed five years, chambered and safety on. Carried M9 on duty, chambered and decocked double action. I have a glock 21 and I am confident enoughin all of these to carry hot. Pistols were meant to be carried this way.

Lock and load a 15 round magazine and scan your lane.

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sevenplusone wrote:

You are the most important safety for the firearm. Both of those pistols you mentioned should be perfectly safe carried chambered if you do your part.

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Sometimes a wild hare will make me want to give one of my friends a firearms lesson. They usually appreciate it.

After explaining some basic terminology: "How would you clear this weapon?"

"Ok, so if I pull that trigger, what will happen?"

Either I am a good teacher, I have smart friends, or some combination of the two.

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Millions of Allied and German soldiers in two World Wars, and theycarried both revolvers and semiautomatic pistols with rounds in the chamber, too. They didn't shoot themselves, either. Learn your handgun and practicer periodically; that makes it safe for you to carry with a round chambered.

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In Condition 1. Otherwise, it's just an inert lump and you may forget you're carrying.

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when i first started OCing with my glock 22 i didnt feel comfortable carrying it with one in the chamber but one night i had a incident withmy gfscrazy ex hubby coming after me with a river rock yelling im gona kill u,which is then wheni grabd the pistol but didnt draw just because his kids were bout 20 feet to theleft and didnt wana have to shoot their dad in front of them or shoot him period..he got smart and stoped after he saw i about to draw..but after the cops came and got everything sorted out i totally forgot i didnt have one ready to go, so if i did have to pull the trigger i probably wouldve been screwed if he didnt stop cuz i didnt even think about racking one in...now i ALWAYS carry fully loaded with one in the chamberjust incase he trys to carry out the nonstop threats...he says hes just waiting to catch me the day im not carrying...which is never

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I still remember the chill that went up my spine as I realized that I would have to rack a round ... oh, gawd, will I have enough time? Still makes me shiver!

Yeah, the DA is not about finding the truth, only about conviction rates. And any investigator that works for any government agency is not there to find the truth, only to find the evidence to convict you, right or wrong.

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Just remember, that in a life and death situation, "it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six." "Rack em. Stack em; and Pack em."

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When carrying my firearm, I can never gaurantee that I will have both hands free, when I need the gun. If my left hand is encumbered by active defense or grocery bags it does not matter: A handgun, without a round chambered, is useless in that situation. Double Action, hammer down, one in the pipe. "Bangswitch" active.

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I hate that quote, it implies black and white to everything.



mrsemman wrote:

Just remember, that in a life and death situation, "it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six." "Rack em. Stack em; and Pack em."

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Pace wrote:

I hate that quote, it implies black and white to everything.



mrsemman wrote:

Just remember, that in a life and death situation, "it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six." "Rack em. Stack em; and Pack em."

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Pace,

If you carry, either open or concealed, you are carrying a death weapon.Whether or not you use that weapon, is your choice. Use it wisely. Train, train, train, because it could be the difference between saving someone's life or not. It is both a mental commitment to do something or not. If your mind is not in the right place when the sh*t comes down, then you are part of the problem not the resolution. Bad guys do not wait for you to jack a round into the chamber, then take careful aim at them. They shoot, run at you or away.

We had many cops on our department that would wear "the vests". Nice item, but it brings about a certain mentality of what used to be called "Tombstone". They forgot to think about their situation analysis (where they were and what they were doing). One guy, who is now the chief of the department, even dove into a swimming pool to save a body that had been floating face down for an undetermined time. He sank like a stone and had to be dragged out of the water before he too drowned.

I used to train cops. I trained them to find cover. I trained them to run away to a safer place. I trained them to watch out wherever and whenever they could.

In one word, "Think". It's a lost art.

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45acpForMe wrote:

okboomer wrote:

... The only problem is that I carried in Condition 3 at the time and the DA tried to claim I escalated the situation by racking a round. I did not show the weapon, I did not claim that I was going to do anything either ... only that I was not going to turn my back on someone who said they were going to get their gun and shoot me.

I have carried Condition 1 ever since then.

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It seems with DA's you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I bet if you had carried in Condition 1 that night the DA would have criticized that as being overly zealous to be ready (and willing/wanting) to discharge your firearm! I have heard people recommending not carryingsingle actionpistols because DA's demonize them for needing less actions to go off. When will lawyers wake up and realize 1) The type/model/style of gun is rarely an issue and 2) Prosecuting or defending a client isn't supposed to be about twisting the truth but finding it. I think their careers are judged too much on win/loss of their cases rather than correct verdicts.

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Carry chambered, if somehow it came up as an issue in court have your lawyer ask the bailiff how his department carries their duty firearms.

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To carry a round chambered or not is an argument that has been discussed ad nauseous on all these blogs and in face to face conversations around the country and the world. It all boils down to your personal comfort zone. It has been one that you the carrier has to be comfortable with. It also has to do with how you train with your pistol, ALL skills learned are skills to have. Knowing how to do the "Israeli draw" is just as important as learning how to do the Chapman, Weaver or Isosceles shooting stances. How to shoot in the dark/low light as well as really bright light. how to engage a target one handed while holding a flashlight such as the Rogers carry, Harries carry or the old FBI flashlight techniques. If you have the means to do so find out who in your state teaches Defensive pistol techniques or visit one of the big national schools. Develop that TOOL BOX of skills so that you know how and can react in any situation that arises. The difference between a draw and putting into action a pistol with a chambered round and racking the slide to chamber a round during your draw stroke is negligible in my mind. Having served in the military 12 years and armed security for the last ten years, and CCWing/OCing since 94. I have practiced both methods, that is the important part "Practice" your draw both ways. I wasn't always allowed to carry Cond 1 everywhere i worked. Even when i was deployed with the military and had ammo issued to us. We didn't always have Cond 1 carry available to us. I even had a boss who's security company i worked for, wouldn't let us carry a mag in the gun if using a semi pistol or have the hammer down on a chamber and the next chamber in line loaded in a revolver. He was a really paranoid boss. He was afraid to loose his bonded armed license due to hypothetical accidents that might happen. I had to implement a training plan and it took 6 months to change his mind about it. Now after 10 years he has not problem with it, since none of those hypothetical situations has ever happened.

So in my personal belief about this whole thing is this. Do what is comfortable for you and how you train is how you will fight. Will you ever find yourself in a position to have to use your skills, hopefully not. But when you do your practiced reactions will take over when needed. Practice,practice,practice is the name of the game. ALL skills are important, no matter what skill it is. Another thing that is really important so that you don't get caught up in a situation that is out of your reasonable ability to control is this SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. If you have that then it gives you an edge.

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One thing to keep in mind for everyone.

Everyone comes to terms on their own. We all didn't start at the same process at the same time either. We want to make sure that the "newbies" feel welcomed.

I've been carrying concealed for 20 years (off and on in various forms and positions).

Now on the flip side (for "newbies")- if you do have a question. Please do a quick search on it. Either use this websites search feature or google or whatever you are using and do a simple search on the topic.

You'll be amazed that it has been brought up. Now do know that there are times and circumstances that are very specific for you then... ask if you don't find it or an answer that fits you.

It is true. Either way you are comfortable (loaded or not). The way to be.... is topractice and become proficient with that method.



I have to admit I do get a bit dizzy with all the same questions but I look at it like this. When you have family or friends visit from out of town and you show them around - you get to see your own city from a fresh new perspective. Sometimes you even learn something.

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I think someone asked if and why about the Israeli Method:

Israeli Method

The "Israeli Method" is a point shooting system devised by the Israel Defense Force (IDF) for use in training personnel to use rifles, submachineguns, and handguns.

In its initial stages of training, it closely resembles the FSA method. In later stages, training in the rapid acquisition of the sights is taught, as well as a more advanced method of pointshooting.

In the United States and Canada, the term "Israeli Method" is generally believed to refer to the carrying of a semiautomatic pistol with its chamber empty. However, the carrying of the chamber empty served a safety consideration, rather than a tactical consideration. In past decades, due to severe budget constraints, IDF purchased and issued large quantities of antiquated sidearms, the mechanical safety of which was questionable. In recent decades, as budget concerns are increasingly alleviated and more modern, standardized sidearms are issued, this mode of carry is increasingly being phased out. It should also be noted that specialized personnel, such as police and special forces units, have typically carried newer and safer firearms, and have rarely used this mode of carry.

Fairbairn and Sykes mentioned and suggested this form of carry in their book referenced above.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting

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So, you may find "some" holding onto this form of "training" but as everything else advancement of technology and training.

"Some" refers to everyone that has gone through this type of training - I'm sure it's going to take a while (a generation) to get pass the "history" of this methodology. Sometimes we do things because that is how we were taught. We're finding out it may not be the best way but we still do it anyways.

Still your choice.

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I think keeping a round in the chamber is a necessity for defensive firearm carry. Your first instinct in a fight would be to draw, aim and fire. Why make it more complicated than that? Racking the slide could take away valuable seconds that could be the difference between life and death.