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Thread: OC In Liquor Licensed Places?

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    Regular Member American Traditional Citizens (ACT)'s Avatar
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    Ok at the OC seminar the guy giving the presentation said that you may no OC in a Liquor Licensed store without a CPL. Then he listed stores like, Meijer, walmart, apple bee's etc. How does this law apply to me if I'm not 21? I don't have a CPL but can't buy liquor anyways.
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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    If you don't have a CPL you may NOT legally carry into any place (nor on the property) that is licensed by the Liquor Control Act.

    EVERY place in Michigan that sells Alcohol legally, is licensed.

    If you do not have a CPL, you may NOT carry into Meijer, Kroger, restaurants that sell alcohol, CVS, Walgreen's, or your local party store....etc
    .
    That said, things can change when you do have a CPL but there is no need for that info in this thread as all it would do is muddy the water when we should be VERY CLEAR on this subject.


    fixed

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    One little addition... to Dougs Excellent post.

    You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    One little addition... to Dougs Excellent post.

    You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home.


    This is a new distinction I have not heard here before. Is there a cite that says a gun properly stored in a lock box cannot be in a car's trunk in the parking lot of business that has a liquor license without a cpl?

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    Regular Member American Traditional Citizens (ACT)'s Avatar
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    hey Scot I two live in Eastpointe.

    I'm the OP and to add to this question. so the only way for me to OC in an establishment under the liquor act is to get a CPL.... so If I go out take a CPL class will the give me a CPL under 21? I understand that I would not be able to conceal by law. But then again I would have a CPL and there for be able to OC in an establishment under the liquor act.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Reagan

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    You must be 21 to receive a CPL. Under 21 the only way to open carry in a place licensed to sell alcohol is with permission. Read 1H and2D. This law 750.234d is the law you need to follow while carrying. Also 750.237a which covers schools. Without a CPL schools are off limits as well.

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    scot623 wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    One little addition... to Dougs Excellent post.

    You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home.

    This is a new distinction I have not heard here before. Is there a cite that says a gun properly stored in a lock box cannot be in a car's trunk in the parking lot of business that has a liquor license without a cpl?
    There is no exception for parking lots in 750.234d so therefor parking lots are off limits.

    As Sprinklerguy said however if you have permission you would be ok. Although I would recommend written permission.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Hey there ACT, not sure which one you, probably the younger guy to my right? I was the guy out in the store "preaching". You might want to change your post, in it you may or may not admit to doing something illegal, that could be held against you.

    PM me if you're confused.

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    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    American Traditional Citizens (ACT) wrote:
    hey Scot I two live in Eastpointe.

    I'm the OP and to add to this question. so the only way for me to OC in an establishment under the liquor act is to get a CPL.... so If I go out take a CPL class will the give me a CPL under 21? I understand that I would not be able to conceal by law. But then again I would have a CPL and there for be able to OC in an establishment under the liquor act.
    You can get permission to OC (w/o CPL) for these places, but I would get in writing.

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    scot623 wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    One little addition... to Dougs Excellent post.

    You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home.

    This is a new distinction I have not heard here before. Is there a cite that says a gun properly stored in a lock box cannot be in a car's trunk in the parking lot of business that has a liquor license without a cpl?
    There is no exception for parking lots in 750.234d so therefor parking lots are off limits.

    As Sprinklerguy said however if you have permission you would be ok. Although I would recommend written permission.
    Where was is that was said that parking lot does not count against said pistol free places? is that when dealing with CC and with CPL?

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    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    manicdevery wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    scot623 wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    One little addition... to Dougs Excellent post.

    You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home.

    This is a new distinction I have not heard here before. Is there a cite that says a gun properly stored in a lock box cannot be in a car's trunk in the parking lot of business that has a liquor license without a cpl?
    There is no exception for parking lots in 750.234d so therefor parking lots are off limits.

    As Sprinklerguy said however if you have permission you would be ok. Although I would recommend written permission.
    Where was is that was said that parking lot does not count against said pistol free places? is that when dealing with CC and with CPL?
    the part that says "On Premise" look on the tri-fold Brochure! 750-234d

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    Being prepared would be worth the hundred bucks.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The Pistol free Zones for a CPL holder are codified in a different statute and there is an exception for most of those locations parking lots. However that is ONLY for CPL holders. Since the OP does not have a CPL he must be concerned with the MCL I Cited and there is NO exception for parking lots listed in those PFZ's. This means the entire property is included in "Premises" in the before mentioned MCL


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I guess I was thinking more in terms of transporting a firearm vs. carrying a firearm. It does get a bit grey and murky. Best to err on the side of caution.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    scot623 wrote:
    I guess I was thinking more in terms of transporting a firearm vs. carrying a firearm. It does get a bit grey and murky. Best to err on the side of caution.
    And it gets worse! The way the law is written you cannot have a gun on the property of a liqueur licensed establishment period even if in transport mode! Just think how many hunters violate that one every year.... not to mention that as soon as you buy a gun at a Walmart you are breaking the law! :what:
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    If the place had an open carry sticker on their door, would this count as written permission? I would assume so, but what say ye?

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I don't know... that would be a question for an attorney.

    I would like to think so but again IDK
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    If the place had an open carry sticker on their door, would this count as written permission? I would assume so, but what say ye?
    I wouldn't put my life in the hands of a sticker!,

    Second if you assume a sticker on the door is the same as a letter in your hand with your name, and a signature of the store owner....Well we could always come visit you in Jail.
    :celebrate Just Saying

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    true.

    The trouble is that If I ask the mgr. at say, Kroger, if I can get permission to OC, then they will say no, and when my infringement is up in July, I wont be able to OC there even with a CPL. They may let me CC, but that would just mean I have to find another store. As it is, I had never had a problem OCing there before.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    Being prepared would be worth the hundred bucks.
    What about the misdemeanor and the 90 days in JAIL?

    You can't be that stupid, can you? :?

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    Better judged by 12 than carried by 6

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    dougwg wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    Being prepared would be worth the hundred bucks.
    What about the misdemeanor and the 90 days in JAIL?

    You can't be that stupid, can you? :?
    Here's already proven he is. Beyond a doubt.

    Besides, where's he gonna get a hundred bucks? He didn't pay for the lawyer he threw under the bus that he got for free because he is so broke.

    stainless1911 wrote:
    Better judged by 12 than carried by 6
    And after you're judged by 12, who's going to care and protect your wife and little girl?


  24. #24
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    How about smart enough to go somewhere else?

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    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    This exemption is important. If I am not mistaken, an 18-20 year old resident of Michigan can get a non resident license to carry concealed from one of the states that issues concealed carry licenses to 18 year old non residents, and open carry at the criminal empowerment zones it lists, and be in compliance with this section, as well as 237a which also has the same exemption.

    My understanding is that you still couldn't CC, or carry in a car because of section 28.425 o of Act 372 of 1927 which prohibits that, but you'd be good to go for OCing otherwise.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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