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Thread: Machine Guns Legal in Minnesota Since 1983

  1. #1
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    In 1978 the MN Legislature passed a law allowing Mn residents to acquire "collectable machine guns," leaving the definition of "collectable" to the discretion of the Superintendent of the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. (BCA)

    When the law went into effect in August of that year I began calling the BCA to learn what machine guns would be considered collectable. I was told they didn't know. I continued to call and write for some months with no success. I felt the Superintendent's decision was that none were collectable.

    In the 1981 session of the MN Legislature they added options to the the implementation of an Administrative Rule. Administrative Rules were used to correct the unintended consequences of clumsy wording in a law which made the law difficult to apply. The Legislature added a provision for a citizen who was unsuccessful in negotiating a rule with the bureaucracy enforcing the law that allowed the citizen to write their own rule and petition the bureaucracy to adopt it. I immediately drafted a rule and sent the petition. My rule asked BCA to adopt the Federal Curios and Relics List to be adopted as the MN definition of a collectable machine gun.

    My petition was denied. The required response read, "We do not ever intend to promulgate a rule allowing private citizens to possess automatic weapons in the interest of public safety," or word to that effect.

    I took a copy of that letter to the committee in the Legislature responsible for Administrative rules and told the staff person, "The BCA is thwarting the intent of the Legislature" and she asked if I could prove it. I handed her the letter and she added the subject to the next meeting of the committee.

    The committee reminded the Superintendent of the BCA that they made the laws, not BCA, and directed him to begin the rule making process.

    Their first rule exceeded their statutory authority and failed legal review by the MN Attorney General. The next 2 versions came out and failed as well.
    The fourth version contained many unnecessary and restrictive requirements and fees, but passed muster at the Attorney General's office and was sent to the Secretary of State for public comment.

    I went to the BCA and "persuaded" them to recall the rule.

    The fifth rule adopted the Federal Curio and Relics List as the MN definition of a collectable machine gun. They gave up. It was 1983.

    You can go to the MN Revisor of Statutes website to read the Statute and rule.

    Website: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/

    Select "Statutes" and go to 609.67
    Select "Ruless" and go to 7500.5100

    The Machine Guns map on this website is incorrect.

    Roger Beach

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Hey Roger,

    Nice of you to join us. Can you properly introduce yourself in this thread so that we can verify all of the information posted here? If you're correct that Class 3 is legal, then that's great.

    Also, how narrow is machine guns in relation to the federal C&R class 3 list?

    -Gray


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    Indeed. I'm interested in seeing more about this.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Hello Gray,

    I have upgraded my profile today so I hope that fulfills the request to properly introduce myself.

    My first post included the MN Revisor of Statutes web address and the numbers of the Statute (609.67) allowing possession, and the number of the Rule (7500.5100) which I petitioned the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension to adopt, and which they finally did adopt.

    That should give you enough info to substantiate my statements.

    What else would you like to know?

    Roger Beach

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    I GOOFED!

    My headline for my first post should have read:

    "MACHINE GUNS LEGAL IN MINNESOTA SINCE 1983"

    1981 was the year I petitioned the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension to adopt the Federal Curios and Relics list as the definition of a collectible machine gun for MN Law 609.67.

    Roger Beach

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    Roger Beach wrote:
    I GOOFED!

    My headline for my first post should have read:

    "MACHINE GUNS LEGAL IN MINNESOTA SINCE 1983"

    1981 was the year I petitioned the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension to adopt the Federal Curios and Relics list as the definition of a collectible machine gun for MN Law 609.67.

    Roger Beach
    OK, I fixed your title - so do people in Minnesota own machine guns now legally now? And can you get with John Pierce and explain this to him so he can change the map? Thanks.

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    Yes, people in MN legally own machine guns, and have since 1983. I became a Class III dealer almost immediately after the rule went into effect and sold machine guns for several years, as did my friend who initially approached Bob Lessard. We cleaned out the inventory of one dealer in AZ in a couple of months with sales to MN residents.

    I emailed John Pierce and told him to read the thread. He'll see this as well.

    If you would like to know more, please send me a private email.


    Roger

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    A friend was a Class 3 owner in Minnesota in the mid 90's before he moved out of state.

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    I'm a class III dealer in Mn and certainly you can own them here. Not all... but curio and relic items. Thompsons, and such.... as if the normal guys could afford one!

    Dealers can own most anything, but have to first get a police "emonstration request" letter OR buy a Pre-86 dealer sample.

    Roger is right and although I can't recall just who he is... I sure recall his name! Funny how time does that do a guy.

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    Roger Beach, et al : Minnesota machinegun ownership

    I am a Texas resident, I own a WWII German MP-40 (tube gun) and would like to
    pass the gun on to my son, who is a Minnesota resident. As I understand the law....
    he can own the gun if it's declared a C & R. Definition "...collectors items, relics,
    museum pieces, objects of curiosity, ornaments or keepsakes, not likely to be
    used as weapons". The gun IS "old, museum piece, relic, collectors item, etc" however
    it is fully functional, and "could" be used as a weapon. It seems to me the Minnesota
    law is ambigious...if the gun meets MN C&R requirements, then it would not be a
    "functional" machine gun, and if not a "machine gun" then it can be owned. Seems
    like a "catch 22" to me. Can anyone comment on my conclusions, and the chances of
    the gun being designated a C & R in Minnesota??

    CAG

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