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Thread: Prosecuter decision in open carry case near

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    http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/m...rry-case-near/

    By John Branton
    Columbian staff writer

    Originally published March 23, 2010 at 7:46 p.m., updated March 23, 2010 at 7:54 p.m.



    Vancouver’s city prosecutor says he hopes by Thursday to make a decision in the controversial case of a man whom police ticketed for openly displaying a holstered, loaded gun outside an Albertsons strip mall.

    “At this point I want to make sure I have all the information and have reviewed all the relevant case law,” Kevin McClure with the City Attorney’s Office said Tuesday.

    McClure said his options are to dismiss the gross-misdemeanor case or send it forward in Clark County District Court.

    The defendant, Kurk Robert Kirby, 26, stood outside stores at the strip mall at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd. for 10 to 15 minutes on Friday afternoon, openly displaying his .45-caliber Springfield Armory XP pistol in a holster. A store owner called 911, saying he was concerned for his customers including small children.

    Kirby, a Vancouver resident, carried a total of 35 bullets, loaded in the gun and two extra magazines, according to the Vancouver Police Department report.

    Although Kirby made no menacing statements or movements, and cooperated with police, officers took his gun as evidence and issued him a ticket alleging he committed the crime of unlawful carrying of a weapon.

    On Tuesday, Kirby said he could make no comment, based on the advice of his attorney, Christopher Dumm of Vancouver.

    Dumm met with McClure on Tuesday.

    Dumm told The Columbian previously that he operates a general criminal practice and has “a strong interest in Second Amendment issues.”

    The case generated many comments from the general public -- and has stirred interest in the open-carry movement, which has staged incidents like Kirby’s in several states, including at Starbucks coffee shops in California.

    Activists, whose comments can be read at OpenCarry.org, say the practice is supported by laws and the Constitution.

    The Washington state law that applies to the Albertsons case is RCW 9.41.270, officials said.

    That law says: “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.”

    The text of the entire law, including exceptions such as carrying a firearm in your own home or place of business, can be read at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270.

    John Branton: 360-735-4513 or john. branton@columbian.com.

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    I really wish they would quit using the word "displaying". He was not "displaying" his firearm, he was carrying it. If he was displaying it he would have it in his hand.

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    Regular Member Gilead_Gunslinger's Avatar
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    and why (in this and the previous report) do they keep bringing up the number of bullets he was carrying? including "one in the chamber" .... how is that relevant...? fear mongering, says I....
    I aim with my eye... I shoot with my mind... I kill with my heart....
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    Drama DramaDrama DramaDrama ....

    Geez; I am sick of the drama oriented people and media !

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    Boy, just enough slants to not be obviously biased but yet infer something inappropriate...


    The defendant, Kurk Robert Kirby, 26...

    I am no lawyer, but you aren't a "Defendant" until AFTER you are actually charged are you? Until that point you are just a suspect.



    ...stood outside stores at the strip mall at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd. for 10 to 15 minutes on Friday afternoon, openly displaying his .45-caliber Springfield Armory XP pistol in a holster. A store owner called 911, saying he was concerned for his customers including small children.

    Not "Openly carrying", but "Displaying"....you know, showing it off, looking for attention and such. Do women "display" purses or do they simply carry them? The word choice carries in inference of showing off, that the word "carrying" doesn't .



    Kirby, a Vancouver resident, carried a total of 35 bullets, loaded in the gun and two extra magazines, according to the Vancouver Police Department report.

    Is there any sort of law about how many bullets one can carry? What is the point of this statement other than to possibly inflame those who have been led to believe that anything over 10 takes you into "Assault Weapon" territory.

    Then there is the grammatical issue of the statement- Was the gun loaded with 35 round AND he had two spare magazines (oh my he had 105 bullets!). Or was it a total of 35 between the gun and the two spare magazines. An odd spot for a comma and not real clear, thereby easy to misinterpret.



    Although Kirby made no menacing statements or movements, and cooperated with police, officers took his gun as evidence and issued him a ticket alleging he committed the crime of unlawful carrying of a weapon.



    He did nothing other than carry, er.. "Display" the gun, and they still took it and arrested him (cite and release). Obviously that means the simple act of carrying, er..."Displaying" a gun is sufficient to allege a violation (or so they would have the readers to believe).



    Dumm told The Columbian previously that he operates a general criminal practice and has “a strong interest in Second Amendment issues.”

    Left-wing code for "Right wing wacko nut job extremist"...



    The case generated many comments from the general public --

    But we aren't going to bother noting that the majority of those comments support the man that was arrested (cite and released is still an arrest) and question the possible abuse of authority by the VPD...



    and has stirred interest in the open-carry movement, which has staged incidents like Kirby’s in several states, including at Starbucks coffee shops in California.

    HERE WE GO! The event was STAGED! he did it for attention. People can't just go about their daily routine and exercise their rights at the same time. Nope, no-sir-ee buddy, if you are exercising a right you must be staging a protest or something.



    Activists, whose comments can be read at OpenCarry.org, say the practice is supported by laws and the Constitution.

    "ACTIVISTS", not citizens, advocates, sympathizers or anything of the sort only those trouble-making ACTIVISTS would claim the laws and constitution allow such behavior.

    (side note- when did being a Constitutionalist become a bad thing??? Isn't that the document that defines our state and federal governments? Shouldn't someone who studies, supports and abides by it's content be welcomed?)



    The Washington state law that applies to the Albertsons case is RCW 9.41.270, officials said.

    That law says: “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.”

    The text of the entire law, including exceptions such as carrying a firearm in your own home or place of business, can be read at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270.



    More inferences...this behavior is excused in your home or business, but by golly not in public!


    I am betting a nickle the prosecutor declines to file charges to make it go away with as little noise (spelled L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y) as possible...


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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    glock23 wrote:


    http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/m...rry-case-near/

    By John Branton
    Columbian staff writer

    Originally published March 23, 2010 at 7:46 p.m., updated March 23, 2010 at 7:54 p.m.



    “At this point I want to make sure I have all the information and have reviewed all the relevant case law,” Kevin McClure with the City Attorney’s Office said Tuesday.

    Wait a second. That guy is INSANE! According to Dave Workman, and a few others on this site, a prosecutor decides whether or not he'll file charges based on if there's a protest or not.

    They don't decide it on the facts of the case, and established legal precedent.

    WTH is Kevin McClure smoking?!?! Workman should set him straight.

    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

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    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    sirpuma wrote:
    I really wish they would quit using the word "displaying". He was not "displaying" his firearm, he was carrying it. If he was displaying it he would have it in his hand.
    NO ****!! if he displayed it in his hand,, and wasnt covered by the exceptions in 9.41.270,, he would actually be guilty of a crime



    im starting to wonder if this guy isnt a poster boy for the bradybunch:what:
    we were warned not to do any kind of protest, or stand up for this guy

    it is starting to sound as if this guy was doing his own standing up and protesting on his own :celebrate

    im just not sure who is doing the winning or the loosing
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    Dave_pro2a wrote:
    glock23 wrote:
    “At this point I want to make sure I have all the information and have reviewed all the relevant case law,” Kevin McClure with the City Attorney’s Office said Tuesday.

    Wait a second. That guy is INSANE! According to Dave Workman, and a few others on this site, a prosecutor decides whether or not he'll file charges based on if there's a protest or not.

    They don't decide it on the facts of the case, and established legal precedent.

    WTH is Kevin McClure smoking?!?! Workman should set him straight.
    Actually the public outcry is usually the third most important thing they look at. Of course with the right attention and spin, the order of the top three can change...

    First and foremost is "Can I win in court or get a plea?" (Cause you is only as good as your last case and you gotta keep your stats up).

    Then comes, "Was there a likely violation of law?"

    And finally, "What will the public response be?"

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    911Boss wrote:
    Dave_pro2a wrote:
    glock23 wrote:
    “At this point I want to make sure I have all the information and have reviewed all the relevant case law,” Kevin McClure with the City Attorney’s Office said Tuesday.

    Wait a second. That guy is INSANE! According to Dave Workman, and a few others on this site, a prosecutor decides whether or not he'll file charges based on if there's a protest or not.

    They don't decide it on the facts of the case, and established legal precedent.

    WTH is Kevin McClure smoking?!?! Workman should set him straight.
    Actually the public outcry is usually the third most important thing they look at. Of course with the right attention and spin, the order of the top three can change...

    First and foremost is "Can I win in court or get a plea?" (Cause you is only as good as your last case and you gotta keep your stats up).

    Then comes, "Was there a likely violation of law?"

    And finally, "What will the public response be?"
    So you're saying that a vocal minority, standing in solidarity, can influence a DA.

    Hmmm, maybe that Vancouver picnic isn't such a bad idea
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

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    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    This forum is getting to be like a mobile home park...
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    amzbrady wrote:
    This forum is getting to be like a mobile home park...
    This should help clear it up.
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    ak56 wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    This forum is getting to be like a mobile home park...
    This should help clear it up.
    I don't care what anyone says that there is funny ! LMAO

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    Bersa.380 wrote:
    ak56 wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    This forum is getting to be like a mobile home park...
    This should help clear it up.
    I don't care what anyone says that there is funny ! LMAO
    Gods answer to mobile home parks. Never see a tornado hit a big city.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    lol I am still curious why a tornado hasn't hit Jerry Springer's studio

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    Norman wrote:
    lol I am still curious why a tornado hasn't hit Jerry Springer's studio
    it's most likely stick built or industrial, if it was manufactured or an actual mobile it would get tornadoed up real good.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Batousaii wrote:
    Norman wrote:
    lol I am still curious why a tornado hasn't hit Jerry Springer's studio
    it's most likely stick built or industrial, if it was manufactured or an actual mobile it would get tornadoed up real good.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Sounds like a picnic is in order after this guy is free and clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    "carried a total of 35 bullets"

    Just getting technical, aren't the "bullets" just the projectile part of the round.? Who cares if he was carrying those? What he going to do, throw them at you?

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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    "carried a total of 35 bullets"

    Just getting technical, aren't the "bullets" just the projectile part of the round.? Who cares if he was carrying those? What he going to do, throw them at you?
    Must be a black powder gun!


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    I own a XD .45

    This article is full of all kinds of errors.
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    gsx1138 wrote:
    I own a XD .45

    This article is full of all kinds of errors.
    Maybe he has a special one that you don't have? (I've got two XDs, myself).

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    glock23 wrote:
    Vancouver’s city prosecutor says he hopes by Thursday to make a decision in the controversial case of a man whom police ticketed for openly displaying a holstered, loaded gun outside an Albertsons strip mall.
    Today is the day... maybe.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Just a FYI...

    I have confirmation from a Detective in Vancouver/Clark Co. that a training bulletin is being worked on by the civil attorney.
    Live Free or Die!

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    gogodawgs wrote:
    Just a FYI...

    I have confirmation from a Detective in Vancouver/Clark Co. that a training bulletin is being worked on by the civil attorney.
    Civil attorney?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    The attorney who works with the departments to help interpret and develop the enforcement of the statute. He is writing the training bulleting.
    Live Free or Die!

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