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Thread: Am I still a resident?

  1. #1
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    I lived in Idaho for, oh, about 6 years. Left the state to move to CA in early December to provide live-in care for my mother after a major heart attack and open heart surgery. As a bonus, I get to have a job again yay. So, I'm working, and plan on putting myself through some schooling while I'm here, but still consider this move to be temporary at best.

    Do I still qualify as a resident of Idaho? I think I do. I was able to find something that indicated I had up to 30 months after leaving the state, if the move was to be temporary or for schooling, that I could still be considered a resident.

    This relates to firearms as I'm currently in CA, and want to buy a pistol that's off-list. That means I can't buy it here in CA, since the state hasn't drop tested it and been paid by the manufacturer to put it on the list. If I still qualify as a resident of Idaho, then I should be able to buy a firearm in Idaho, and ship it/import it to the state as my own property.

    Just rolling the thought around, looking for input/advice/help. Anybody up here in the Idaho section able to give any input as to when my residency expires? All I was able to find on that relates to students, so I'm hesitant to use that as my basis. If I can't find something sufficiently concrete law to declare residency with, I'll have to reconsider my idea of puchasing a great little CA legal but off-list firearm up there. Help?

    If anyone is interested, http://www.gunweek.com/2006/feature0910.htmlis the firearm I'm looking to get.

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    Residency is defined a little differently depending on which state (or federal) government you're talking about. Generally, you remain a resident of the state you are from until you have the intention of becoming a resident of another. While living there temporarily with plans to come home to Idaho, you should maintain a "presence" here. For some people, they may keep their main home here. You might have a business you left here that shows your intention of staying. Leaving all your stuff here in storage shows intent to stay. Basically, you shouldn't have a reason to defend your residency unless someone challenges it.

    When I first moved to Idaho, I wasn't sure I was going to stay here or continue to Alaska. I didn't get my Idaho license (gun or car) or change my voter registration until I was sure I was staying. I was a temporary resident here until then.

    Did you get a California driver's license? Did you change your car plates to California plates? Do you still have an address I could reach you at in Idaho? Did you change your cell phone to a California number? All those things show your clear intent to stay in California and I wouldn't bother trying to buy a gun here if so. On the other hand, if you truly are still a resident of Idaho and not just trying to find a slick way to purchase weapons, I say go for it.

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    I'm afraid I can't answer to the legality of your residency but I will say be careful to dot your i's and cross your t's. Cav Arms just recently got busted for selling to someone in CA even though he had an address in another state where it would have been legal. In this case the guy's primary residence was CA and in your case it sounds like it isn't. I'd be interested in hearing what you eventually find out though.

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    Thanks for the input. Food for thought.

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    Federal law defines residency in a state as presence in that state with the intention of making a home in that state. Another problem, though, is that in order to prove residency to an FFL, you have to have a state issued ID card (or driver's license) from that state, or an Active Duty Military ID card and orders to that state.

    If you are physically present in Idaho, you have intention of making Idaho a home, and you have an Idaho ID with an Idaho address on it, you should be good to go to purchase any firearm from an FFL or private party in Idaho.

    27 CFR 478.11 defines state of residence.

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1&idno=27

    State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

    Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

    Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.




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    I'm here temporarily, though longer term. I expect to be here for probably 2-2.5 years, for both care of my mother and putting myself through one of the schools in the area. From what I've found, the time in school doesn't count towards the ticking clock of residency in Idaho while I'm not living there. However, the time I'm working does. I believe that I have about 2 more months before I'm officially a resident of CA, as it requires 6 months to establish my tax residency in the state. I still have my Idaho ID and so forth.

    However, I'm not sure I'm going to be in a position to take enough time off work to get up to Idaho and make the purchase. It's all very up in the air, just looking into it, as the manufactorer of the pistol I'm looking to buy hasn't paid the drop test fee for CA approval. Not that I can hold that against them, the gun list here is absurd.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    I'm here temporarily, though longer term. I expect to be here for probably 2-2.5 years, for both care of my mother and putting myself through one of the schools in the area. From what I've found, the time in school doesn't count towards the ticking clock of residency in Idaho while I'm not living there. However, the time I'm working does. I believe that I have about 2 more months before I'm officially a resident of CA, as it requires 6 months to establish my tax residency in the state. I still have my Idaho ID and so forth.

    However, I'm not sure I'm going to be in a position to take enough time off work to get up to Idaho and make the purchase. It's all very up in the air, just looking into it, as the manufactorer of the pistol I'm looking to buy hasn't paid the drop test fee for CA approval. Not that I can hold that against them, the gun list here is absurd.
    If you return to Idaho ONLY for the purpose of purchasing a firearm, you are breaking the law. The CFR states there must be intent to make a home there.

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    I don't think there is a "ticking clock" as you put it. You could travel the world for 10 years and still maintain your residence here. There may be a required amount of time for you to stay in California before you can obtain residence there (if you so choose), but there is no clock forcing anyone to become a resident. Working in California, you'll certainly have a tax liability though.

    If I were you, I'd maintain a P.O. Box here and use it for ALL my mail, as my main address. Personally, I'd claim no address in California as my own. Have a friend bulk mail your mail to you if you need to get it. Keep an Idaho phone number. I'd even go as far as renting a small room from a friend, signing a lease, and leaving some important possessions behind. Vote absentee, even in small local elections. Don't just CLAIM you are an Idaho resident...take action to show you are still a resident here. If you don't, it may be easy to show by your very actions that your true intention is to stay in California. Your statements here show me that you really do intend on staying here and this is a temporary (though unknown time frame) situation. Think about how you'd back that up if challenged legally.

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    This is what the CA DMV says about residency:

    If you become a California resident, you must get a California driver license within 10 days. Residency is established by voting in a California election, paying resident tuition, filing for a homeowner’s property tax exemption, or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents.

    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm

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    Right, any of the things they listed would go to show them your intention of staying there. For instance, paying "resident tuition". Did you claim to reside at Mom's house when you applied for school? Or are you considered an "out of state" student by the school? It all boils down to your intention. I plan to always remain a resident of Idaho even if I have to leave temporarily to work elsewhere for a bit. It is my intention at this point to try and live my life here or get back here if I'm not. That makes me a resident of Idaho. That means if I ever do have to leave the state for some reason, I will ACT like an Idahoan, I will have an address here, real property, and will remain a member of my church, and will continue to vote absentee.

    What are YOUR intentions. Only you can answer this residency question as we are free to be a resident in whatever state we want.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.
    I am looking for an answer to this question. I grew up in Washington State, but am going to school in the State of Arizona. I have a physical residence in AZ and my ID's, plates, etc. are from AZ. So for all intents and purposes my residency is Arizona. I do normally return to Washington during the summer months as my family lives there and I will again this summer, but the difference is my family no longer resides at the WA address, and I will be getting a place of my own. The WA CPL requirement is that I need to be a WA resident or wait 90 days. Can I still claim WA residence? I can prove I have lived in WA and that I intend to establish a "home". It is also possible I will return to WA permanently after my schooling ends. (If WA had reciprocity with AZ I wouldn't worry about it) and I want the WA CPL because of the silly car carry rule. Carry on!

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    acmariner99 wrote:
    I am looking for an answer to this question. I grew up in Washington State, but am going to school in the State of Arizona. I have a physical residence in AZ and my ID's, plates, etc. are from AZ. So for all intents and purposes my residency is Arizona. I do normally return to Washington during the summer months as my family lives there and I will again this summer, but the difference is my family no longer resides at the WA address, and I will be getting a place of my own. The WA CPL requirement is that I need to be a WA resident or wait 90 days. Can I still claim WA residence? I can prove I have lived in WA and that I intend to establish a "home". It is also possible I will return to WA permanently after my schooling ends. (If WA had reciprocity with AZ I wouldn't worry about it) and I want the WA CPL because of the silly car carry rule. Carry on!
    It's pretty much a moot point. You are slightly mistaken on the wait time requirements for the CPL:

    RCW 9.41.070
    Concealed pistol license — Application — Fee — Renewal.

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license.



    You won't have a Washington driver's license or ID card, and even if you did, you would not be able to prove residency for the previous 90 consecutive days, so you will have to wait up to 60 days for your CPL after you apply.

    You don't need to be a resident of Washington to get the CPL, so, if you can make a trip to Washington at any time, you can apply for your CPL (you do have to apply in person) while you are still a resident of Arizona.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    acmariner99 wrote:
    I am looking for an answer to this question. I grew up in Washington State, but am going to school in the State of Arizona. I have a physical residence in AZ and my ID's, plates, etc. are from AZ. So for all intents and purposes my residency is Arizona. I do normally return to Washington during the summer months as my family lives there and I will again this summer, but the difference is my family no longer resides at the WA address, and I will be getting a place of my own. The WA CPL requirement is that I need to be a WA resident or wait 90 days. Can I still claim WA residence? I can prove I have lived in WA and that I intend to establish a "home". It is also possible I will return to WA permanently after my schooling ends. (If WA had reciprocity with AZ I wouldn't worry about it) and I want the WA CPL because of the silly car carry rule. Carry on!
    It's pretty much a moot point. You are slightly mistaken on the wait time requirements for the CPL:

    RCW 9.41.070
    Concealed pistol license — Application — Fee — Renewal.

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license.



    You won't have a Washington driver's license or ID card, and even if you did, you would not be able to prove residency for the previous 90 consecutive days, so you will have to wait up to 60 days for your CPL after you apply.

    You don't need to be a resident of Washington to get the CPL, so, if you can make a trip to Washington at any time, you can apply for your CPL (you do have to apply in person) while you are still a resident of Arizona.
    Thanks for the clarification. Since I am only going to be there for the summer, would it be a good idea to even get a CPL, Washington is an Open Carry State, which is perfectly fine, but it would be a good idea to have all my bases covered. Too bad I'm not going to live in Idaho.

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    You said all your ID and plates are AZ, so I'd hazard a guess that WA is pretty much going to view you as a non-resident. If you changed your voter's registration and are angling for in-state tuition status,I don't see that you have anychance at all toclaimWA status.Still, simply get their Non-Resident permit. You can convert it back to Resident when you/if you move back.

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    I do still have a WA voter's card and I still get bank statements at the WA address as well. I don't want to "skirt" around the system, but if they don't have a problem with it, I don't. I can prove I am a WA resident with that information, but I may have a tougher time proving I have lived in WA for 90 days. If Washington allowed open carry in a vehicle I wouldn't bother.

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    ecocks wrote:
    You said all your ID and plates are AZ, so I'd hazard a guess that WA is pretty much going to view you as a non-resident. If you changed your voter's registration and are angling for in-state tuition status,I don't see that you have anychance at all toclaimWA status.Still, simply get their Non-Resident permit. You can convert it back to Resident when you/if you move back.
    There is no conversion of the CPL. There is no difference in a non-resident and a resident CPL other than the wait time to initially get it.

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    Odd, that's not what your Attorney General says.

    Reprinting from where this was posted in the other thread about the guy considering moving to ID:

    Dear Mr. Cocks:

    On behalf of the Attorney General Robert M. McKenna, thank you for your request for information received February 24, 2010. I am an Assistant Attorney General for the Licensing and Administrative Law Division. I am responsible for firearm reciprocity issues so your letter was forwarded to me for response. In your request you asked whether a Washington concealed pistol license would still be valid in Washington after the licensee has become a resident of another state.


    Once a licensee has become a resident of another state, the Washington resident concealed pistol license would not be valid in Washington. The licensee should apply for a new permit in their new home state.

    As you noted, Washington does have a non-resident concealed carry license. The process takes 60-days to complete. In order to obtain a non-resident license, the applicant needs to meet the same requirements as Washington residents and pay the licensing fee. Application needs to be done in person at any law enforcement office in the state.

    If you have further questions about this, you may contact the Department of Licensing directly:

    Mr. Bruce Tanaka, Program Manager

    Firearms Program





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    ecocks wrote:
    Odd, that's not what your Attorney General says.
    What exactly are you referring to? I've looked up a lot of information regarding WA's CPL. There is a waiting period (of sorts) if you are not a WA resident. I don't think WA has a resident and non-resident permit, there is just a difference in how long it takes to receive one depending on if you are a resident or not.

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    acmariner99 wrote:
    ecocks wrote:
    Odd, that's not what your Attorney General says.
    What exactly are you referring to? I've looked up a lot of information regarding WA's CPL. There is a waiting period (of sorts) if you are not a WA resident. I don't think WA has a resident and non-resident permit, there is just a difference in how long it takes to receive one depending on if you are a resident or not.
    See the above post from the WA AG office.

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    ecocks wrote:
    Odd, that's not what your Attorney General says.

    Reprinting from where this was posted in the other thread about the guy considering moving to ID:

    Dear Mr. Cocks:

    On behalf of the Attorney General Robert M. McKenna, thank you for your request for information received February 24, 2010. I am an Assistant Attorney General for the Licensing and Administrative Law Division. I am responsible for firearm reciprocity issues so your letter was forwarded to me for response. In your request you asked whether a Washington concealed pistol license would still be valid in Washington after the licensee has become a resident of another state.


    Once a licensee has become a resident of another state, the Washington resident concealed pistol license would not be valid in Washington. The licensee should apply for a new permit in their new home state.

    As you noted, Washington does have a non-resident concealed carry license. The process takes 60-days to complete. In order to obtain a non-resident license, the applicant needs to meet the same requirements as Washington residents and pay the licensing fee. Application needs to be done in person at any law enforcement office in the state.

    If you have further questions about this, you may contact the Department of Licensing directly:

    Mr. Bruce Tanaka, Program Manager

    Firearms Program
    Did you contact the Department of Licensing? The Attorney General's office does not issue CPL's nor does the Attorney General's office determine which licenses are valid or not - the WA Department of Licensing fulfills those functions.

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    Call Mr. Tanaka or call the Dept. of Licensing. It's clear enough to most people.

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