Robocop
Regular Member
imported post
I am a little behind on some current events. What is the status of Open Carry efforts in Texas?
I am a little behind on some current events. What is the status of Open Carry efforts in Texas?
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Status Of Open Carry Effort
- Thread starter Robocop
- Start date
CrossFire
Regular Member
imported post
It is pretty much stalled right now. The legislature only meets in odd numbered years. Hopefully as we get closer to 2011 the ball will start rolling again.
It is pretty much stalled right now. The legislature only meets in odd numbered years. Hopefully as we get closer to 2011 the ball will start rolling again.
Robocop
Regular Member
imported post
Thank you.
Thank you.
Ian
Lone Star Veteran
imported post
I've put an auto responder on my email address so when people ask about the petition that I have going for Texas they get sent here.
I've put an auto responder on my email address so when people ask about the petition that I have going for Texas they get sent here.
Rush Creek
Regular Member
imported post
Letter to my Texas State representative-
Dear Representative Patrick:
I would like to take a minute or two of your time to address aimportant issue in the hope that you will be interested in supporting legislative action in the next session that many Texans believe is long overdue.
I am referring to the growing movement calling upon members of the Texas Legislature to consider amending the Texas Penal Code in order to bring it into harmony and compliance with the constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms openly in Texas. Texas is one of only 6 states neither allowing, nor recognizing the constitutionally guaranteed right to openly wear a holstered firearm for the lawful purpose of self-defense.
Exisitng Texas law provides that a person may not routinely wear a holstered handgun publicly unless they have beenlicensed to carry a concealed handgun.Statutory provisions licensing concealed carry, and generally prohibiting open carry. do not satisfy the requirements of the Texas Constitution's guarantee of the right of every citizen in Texas to keep and bear arms for the lawful purpose of self-defense.
Article I, section 23 of the Texas Bill of Rights provides that:
"Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself, or the State; but the Legislature shall have power to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."
Please note that there is no provision in the text of Article I, section 23 excepting handguns from the exercise of this right, and the reason the legislature is empowered to regulate wearing of arms is to prevent crime.
Texas Penal Code section 46.02 provides: Unlawful Carrying of Weapons - " A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, bowie knife, or club."
This section 46.02 wording violates Article I, section 23 in failing to cite a crime intendedbe prevented by the provision. In fact the only "crime" referenced by this section is the exercise of a constitutionally guaranteed right of citizenship-the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of one's person.
Law enforcement in Texas has long labored under the twisted logic of section 46.02 subjecting the free exercise of a civil right to a very selectively enforced presumption of criminal purpose and intent. Section 46.035 (failure to conceal a handgun by a licensee) also establishes presumptive prima facie criminal purpose and intent in the absence of any supporting evidence .
Some Texans believe thatenactment of aprovision for either concealed or open carry by a licensee would be a simple fix to address this constitutional problem. Unfortunately that approach does not remedy the core problem inherent in the State's presumption of constitutional authority to deny, or license the free exercise of a civil right.
Justice Scalia delivered the following commentary during recent presentation of oral arguments in the McDonald v The City of Chicago's handgun ban casepending before the Supreme Court:
" What is the purpose of a State constitutional guarantee which has at the end of it - subject to such regulation as the legislature may provide ? That would make a nullity of the constitutional requirement."
Whether you are inclined to agree or disagree with my point of view on this subject, the problem exists and is not going away.Either the next session of the Legislature, or the courtswill have the opportunity to address the civil rights violation aspects of this issue.
If you have any questions, concerns,or comments regarding this issue I will be happy to try to address them. Thank you for taking the time togive some consideration to thisissue.
________________________________________________________________
As for the status of the movement ? It's not too early for us to start communicating with the Texas Legislature - is it ?
Letter to my Texas State representative-
Dear Representative Patrick:
I would like to take a minute or two of your time to address aimportant issue in the hope that you will be interested in supporting legislative action in the next session that many Texans believe is long overdue.
I am referring to the growing movement calling upon members of the Texas Legislature to consider amending the Texas Penal Code in order to bring it into harmony and compliance with the constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms openly in Texas. Texas is one of only 6 states neither allowing, nor recognizing the constitutionally guaranteed right to openly wear a holstered firearm for the lawful purpose of self-defense.
Exisitng Texas law provides that a person may not routinely wear a holstered handgun publicly unless they have beenlicensed to carry a concealed handgun.Statutory provisions licensing concealed carry, and generally prohibiting open carry. do not satisfy the requirements of the Texas Constitution's guarantee of the right of every citizen in Texas to keep and bear arms for the lawful purpose of self-defense.
Article I, section 23 of the Texas Bill of Rights provides that:
"Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself, or the State; but the Legislature shall have power to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."
Please note that there is no provision in the text of Article I, section 23 excepting handguns from the exercise of this right, and the reason the legislature is empowered to regulate wearing of arms is to prevent crime.
Texas Penal Code section 46.02 provides: Unlawful Carrying of Weapons - " A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, bowie knife, or club."
This section 46.02 wording violates Article I, section 23 in failing to cite a crime intendedbe prevented by the provision. In fact the only "crime" referenced by this section is the exercise of a constitutionally guaranteed right of citizenship-the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of one's person.
Law enforcement in Texas has long labored under the twisted logic of section 46.02 subjecting the free exercise of a civil right to a very selectively enforced presumption of criminal purpose and intent. Section 46.035 (failure to conceal a handgun by a licensee) also establishes presumptive prima facie criminal purpose and intent in the absence of any supporting evidence .
Some Texans believe thatenactment of aprovision for either concealed or open carry by a licensee would be a simple fix to address this constitutional problem. Unfortunately that approach does not remedy the core problem inherent in the State's presumption of constitutional authority to deny, or license the free exercise of a civil right.
Justice Scalia delivered the following commentary during recent presentation of oral arguments in the McDonald v The City of Chicago's handgun ban casepending before the Supreme Court:
" What is the purpose of a State constitutional guarantee which has at the end of it - subject to such regulation as the legislature may provide ? That would make a nullity of the constitutional requirement."
Whether you are inclined to agree or disagree with my point of view on this subject, the problem exists and is not going away.Either the next session of the Legislature, or the courtswill have the opportunity to address the civil rights violation aspects of this issue.
If you have any questions, concerns,or comments regarding this issue I will be happy to try to address them. Thank you for taking the time togive some consideration to thisissue.
________________________________________________________________
As for the status of the movement ? It's not too early for us to start communicating with the Texas Legislature - is it ?
SemperFiTexan
New member
imported post
Good letter! And you are right, it is never too early to communicate with the lawmakers in Austin.
Good letter! And you are right, it is never too early to communicate with the lawmakers in Austin.
echo5sierra
Regular Member
imported post
Last year I spoke to the staffers in Charlie Howard's office, district 26. They told me that he would support the OC bill but not introduce it because he is not on the law enforcement committee. I stupidly let that stop me.
I was at the SD 17 convention last month, and I spoke to Charlie Howard's wife. I told her my experience with the staffers, and she got kind of pissed off, I guess about as much as a little old grandma can. She told me Charlie Howard would definitely introduce the bill, and that I need to set up an appointment with him and let him know what his staffers told him.
I will get with him and discuss OC.
Last year I spoke to the staffers in Charlie Howard's office, district 26. They told me that he would support the OC bill but not introduce it because he is not on the law enforcement committee. I stupidly let that stop me.
I was at the SD 17 convention last month, and I spoke to Charlie Howard's wife. I told her my experience with the staffers, and she got kind of pissed off, I guess about as much as a little old grandma can. She told me Charlie Howard would definitely introduce the bill, and that I need to set up an appointment with him and let him know what his staffers told him.
I will get with him and discuss OC.
echo5sierra
Regular Member
imported post
I just had a conversation with one of his staffers. The staffer I spoke to told me the same thing that I heard the last time I called. Rep. Howard supports OC, but will not introduce it because he is not on the law enforcement committee. Rep. Howard's wife said otherwise. The staffer did say that the earliest something could be filed is November, so that is a good piece of information.
I just had a conversation with one of his staffers. The staffer I spoke to told me the same thing that I heard the last time I called. Rep. Howard supports OC, but will not introduce it because he is not on the law enforcement committee. Rep. Howard's wife said otherwise. The staffer did say that the earliest something could be filed is November, so that is a good piece of information.
echo5sierra
Regular Member
imported post
Rep. Howard's wife called me today. She was doing research on open carry, and she came across the previous post. She wanted me to know that she gave me the wrong impression, not just about Rep. Howard's position on open carry, but that we needed to take a cane to his staff. Apparently, his staff has raised the bar for helpfulness to the citizens of the district, and they have the letters to back it up.
She wasn't saying that Rep. Howard will automatically going to support OC. I think I caught her off guard with OC, so she was doing some research to learn more about OC, and she came across this thread.
She said I needed to talk to him about it, and she would have him call me. I guess she realized after she read the post that she was putting words in Charlie's mouth, and I was doing the same to her. She didn't want me to get the impression that she tells him what to do, since she doesn't consider that biblical.
She seems like a really good lady. Sorry, Jo for getting ahead of myself.
Rep. Howard's wife called me today. She was doing research on open carry, and she came across the previous post. She wanted me to know that she gave me the wrong impression, not just about Rep. Howard's position on open carry, but that we needed to take a cane to his staff. Apparently, his staff has raised the bar for helpfulness to the citizens of the district, and they have the letters to back it up.
She wasn't saying that Rep. Howard will automatically going to support OC. I think I caught her off guard with OC, so she was doing some research to learn more about OC, and she came across this thread.
She said I needed to talk to him about it, and she would have him call me. I guess she realized after she read the post that she was putting words in Charlie's mouth, and I was doing the same to her. She didn't want me to get the impression that she tells him what to do, since she doesn't consider that biblical.
She seems like a really good lady. Sorry, Jo for getting ahead of myself.
jecsd1
Regular Member
imported post
I'm also interested. It would be great for any updates to be posted.
After posting and re-reading I realized just how vague that must sound and thought I would intro myself. I live in TX, hold a CHL and am very interested in the status of the OC effort. It's sometimes tough to find up to date information and I really enjoy being able to get updates via a few forums. Love the site! keep up the fight!
I'm also interested. It would be great for any updates to be posted.
After posting and re-reading I realized just how vague that must sound and thought I would intro myself. I live in TX, hold a CHL and am very interested in the status of the OC effort. It's sometimes tough to find up to date information and I really enjoy being able to get updates via a few forums. Love the site! keep up the fight!
Blinn79
Regular Member
imported post
CrossFire wrote:
Honestly, I believe that the 2nd amendment is our right to carry, but I would settle for now if we could get it to where Texans that have a CHL, or obtain a CHL, have the option to open carry, or conceal carry. We can then later further chip away at the anti-gun laws.
CrossFire wrote:
I hope we get the "ball rolling" as soon as possible well in advance so that we can make sure to get the open carry message spread across Texas. It felt like we were so close last session. We just need to stay on top of our reps and demand that someone introduce the open carry bill.
Honestly, I believe that the 2nd amendment is our right to carry, but I would settle for now if we could get it to where Texans that have a CHL, or obtain a CHL, have the option to open carry, or conceal carry. We can then later further chip away at the anti-gun laws.
jecsd1
Regular Member
imported post
I agree. You have to start somewhere
I agree. You have to start somewhere
rodbender
Regular Member
imported post
Good luck guys. I have determined that the Texas legislaure is full of gutless wonders. They will not approach open carry in this session or any in the near future. TSRA will not endorse it, nor will NRA. Until one or both endorse open carry in Texas,it will not even be considered.
Good luck guys. I have determined that the Texas legislaure is full of gutless wonders. They will not approach open carry in this session or any in the near future. TSRA will not endorse it, nor will NRA. Until one or both endorse open carry in Texas,it will not even be considered.
rodbender
Regular Member
imported post
Blinn79 wrote:
Blinn79 wrote:
While you are rolling your ball in one direction, you'll probably pass all of their's rolling the other.
Blinn79
Regular Member
imported post
rodbender wrote:
rodbender wrote:
Then maybe we need to start with TSRA... maybe they need to get a ton of phone calls and letters. Maybe some gun owners protesting outside their HQ would help. I wouldn't think it would be good to have lawful gun owners protesting a gun association. Then you would just need about a dozen people to call a local news station and report gun owners protesting TSRA. If you could get even 30 seconds worth of coverage, or even an article in a local paper about it, seems like TSRA would have to start to pay attention. Just a thought...
rodbender
Regular Member
imported post
Blinn79 wrote:
Blinn79 wrote:
While you may be correct in thinking that we need to protest TSRA. What I meant by not endorsing it was that Alice Tripp was openly hostile to the idea. Probably because it was NOT TSRA's idea. You know how that works.
Rush Creek
Regular Member
imported post
rodbender wrote:
rodbender wrote:
You mean .....the right to keep and BEAR ARMS wasn't TSRA's idea?
rodbender
Regular Member
imported post
Rush Creek wrote:
Rush Creek wrote:
Oh, good grief.
CommonMan101
Regular Member
imported post
More of us need to join TSRA and push this. What a constituancy wants matters.
Keep kicking this link around to friends and family too.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
More of us need to join TSRA and push this. What a constituancy wants matters.
Keep kicking this link around to friends and family too.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
SA-TX
Centurion
imported post
CommonMan101 wrote:
The petition is old news -- but sign it if you haven't -- butjoining TSRAis the right approach. Those of you that also are members of www.texaschlforum.com will find that OC discussions are ongoing. Protests aren't the answer. The Brady Bunch would love video of one pro-gun group protesting another. :cuss:
My view is that we need to concentrate our fire, if you'll pardon the pun. We need to work WITH the TSRA. They aren't the enemy. They know that incrementalism is how you change 120 years of deprivation of liberty.
For those that might not understand how the Texaslegislative branchis structured, here's a quick primer. The Legislature only meets for a few months every other year. That means that2 years worth of businessfor the 2nd largest state in the union (both by land mass and population) has the conducted in about 120 days. Thus, only the highest priority items get attention. The result is that making law is tough and repealing a law already on the books is even tougher (due to the competition for the very limited attention of the Legislature).
In general, this is a good thing. We don't have lawmaking bodies in session all the time finding ways to justify their existance and drawing salary (see CA, NY, etc.). On the other hand, any opportunities missed hurt for much longer. We missed one last time. OC probably wasn't going to pass but we missed the chance to make our case and make a positive impression. We didn't even get a bill introduced (unlike AR, OK, and others). We didn't plant some positive seeds that had the opportunity to grow and make it easier this time.
The situation we find ourselves in is this: the legislative agenda is going to be even more crazy than usual because of redistricting. Therefore it is crucial that we, the pro-2A community, come to the Legislature with one message. If there is dissention among the ranks we stand no chance.
The TSRA does good work. They got CHL in Texas. They've worked for improvements every session. To have any hope, we first have to convince our friends that this is an objective worth seeking. The only way to do that is to join TSRA and lend your voice to the debate. Like all organizations, they are much less interested in what non-members say than those whose checks pay their expenses. Worse, if verbal bombs are thrown toward them or pro-2A members that don't yet understand why open carry is important, this is counter-productive and makes enemies not friends! Pro-2A legislators who simply don't understand open carry are not the enemy; they are our audience -- the ones who can be persuaded. Anti lawmakers are never going to support open carry so if you alienate those who are generally pro-gun, you simply ensure defeat.
I'm participating in that discussion right now. Others are too. I ask you to trust me on this: if you want to have a positive impact and increase the chances that an open carry bill will be introduced and have some support, join TSRA and get involved. I'm not saying that I'm happy with the way everything has been in the past but I recognize the reality for what it is: unless the most recognized gun lobby in the state is ready to fight for it, the odds are very slim. We need the full muscle of all Texas gun owners and we don't have that right now. Add your voice to the chorus.
SA-TX
CommonMan101 wrote:
More of us need to join TSRA and push this. What a constituancy wants matters.
Keep kicking this link around to friends and family too.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
The petition is old news -- but sign it if you haven't -- butjoining TSRAis the right approach. Those of you that also are members of www.texaschlforum.com will find that OC discussions are ongoing. Protests aren't the answer. The Brady Bunch would love video of one pro-gun group protesting another. :cuss:
My view is that we need to concentrate our fire, if you'll pardon the pun. We need to work WITH the TSRA. They aren't the enemy. They know that incrementalism is how you change 120 years of deprivation of liberty.
For those that might not understand how the Texaslegislative branchis structured, here's a quick primer. The Legislature only meets for a few months every other year. That means that2 years worth of businessfor the 2nd largest state in the union (both by land mass and population) has the conducted in about 120 days. Thus, only the highest priority items get attention. The result is that making law is tough and repealing a law already on the books is even tougher (due to the competition for the very limited attention of the Legislature).
In general, this is a good thing. We don't have lawmaking bodies in session all the time finding ways to justify their existance and drawing salary (see CA, NY, etc.). On the other hand, any opportunities missed hurt for much longer. We missed one last time. OC probably wasn't going to pass but we missed the chance to make our case and make a positive impression. We didn't even get a bill introduced (unlike AR, OK, and others). We didn't plant some positive seeds that had the opportunity to grow and make it easier this time.
The situation we find ourselves in is this: the legislative agenda is going to be even more crazy than usual because of redistricting. Therefore it is crucial that we, the pro-2A community, come to the Legislature with one message. If there is dissention among the ranks we stand no chance.
The TSRA does good work. They got CHL in Texas. They've worked for improvements every session. To have any hope, we first have to convince our friends that this is an objective worth seeking. The only way to do that is to join TSRA and lend your voice to the debate. Like all organizations, they are much less interested in what non-members say than those whose checks pay their expenses. Worse, if verbal bombs are thrown toward them or pro-2A members that don't yet understand why open carry is important, this is counter-productive and makes enemies not friends! Pro-2A legislators who simply don't understand open carry are not the enemy; they are our audience -- the ones who can be persuaded. Anti lawmakers are never going to support open carry so if you alienate those who are generally pro-gun, you simply ensure defeat.
I'm participating in that discussion right now. Others are too. I ask you to trust me on this: if you want to have a positive impact and increase the chances that an open carry bill will be introduced and have some support, join TSRA and get involved. I'm not saying that I'm happy with the way everything has been in the past but I recognize the reality for what it is: unless the most recognized gun lobby in the state is ready to fight for it, the odds are very slim. We need the full muscle of all Texas gun owners and we don't have that right now. Add your voice to the chorus.
SA-TX