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Thread: Don't like the laws, move! You're required to inform police of a concealed firearm.

  1. #1
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    TOPIC TITLE IS REFERRING TO ALASKA LAW.

    http://newsminer.com/view/full_story...weapons-charge

    Even though people assume I may be fringe until they speak with me due to how I dress, I don't support fringe actions or people.

    If you don't like the laws, move. Follow the law and you won't get charged, it's simple.

    Far too often I hear excuses/statements from other individuals(some even instructors, business owners, activists, etc) like:
    "It's not illegal unless you get caught"
    "I carry concealed at the post office even though it's illegal. They don't know if it's concealed"
    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
    *several other excuses*

    Look, the law is the law. Don't like the law, make a difference by changing the law. Don't sit there and "do it anyway." People sit there and voice for the firearm rights yet commit crimes to NOT help. I'm not talking about just firearm crimes, if you read the article Cox committed a crime earlier this month which wasn't firearms related.

    People need to do as they say, be law abiding. If you have an activity/sexual preference(age, etc)/or other kink/odd activity/disagree with laws like armed while intoxicated, then MOVE.

    If you're in the area I'll help pack your bags, but do NOT, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT commit crimes if you're going to be a representative to the community for civil rights/firearm rights/or any type of pro-right activity.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    Although I agree with the sentiment, that we should follow the law to the greatest possible extent, it is not always possible to abide by every law. I'll explain.

    We often must judge whether one law conflicts with a higher one, such as state preemption or the Constitution. Sometimes, we have to take a stand and simply ignore the law if that law violates our liberty. Some laws are merely inconvenient, others are tyrannical. For instance, if the state passed a law requiring the confiscation of all weapons I would not comply. I would ignore the law, I would sue and, even if the court found against me, I would not comply. Moreover, there comes a point when merely challenging a law in court in not enough. For example, when the National Guard and police came knocking on the doors of people in New Orleans after Katrina.

    I guess the point to my rambling here is that, in general, I agree we should comply with the law, but not in all circumstances.

  3. #3
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Search my past topics, I completely understand issues of pre-emption. Issues of unlawful ordinances should NOT be followed if you ABSOLUTELY KNOW the ordinance to be unlawful/unenforceable. i.e. Park ordinance where state preempt, old ordinances which are not valid under current state preemption, etc

    I'm talking about authority which is granted to the state where an activity is LAWFULLY regulated in some form or fashion, in which people break the law.

    I'm saying to follow the lawful statutes/ordinances, but DO ignore any unlawful ordinances/state law. In the case of Mr. Cox, he was not following the LAWFUL statute where a person MUST immediately inform police of a concealed firearm upon an encounter.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    "Inform Police."

    What the heck does that mean? If you are in the vicinity of a police officer, you need to go up to them, or everyone of them and inform them "I'm carrying a concealed gun?"

    This law makes no sense - the idea of requiring within a traffic stop is that you are being engaged by police in a manner which they are engaging you for violating a crime.

    If I see a police officer on the corner, do I need to run down to the corner and tell him I'm carrying a weapon? How close does he have to be?

    Sounds like from the sound of it, he DID inform them when they engaged him in a matter regarding law enforcement.

    Ridiculous.



  5. #5
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    <i>Look, the law is the law. Don't like the law, make a difference by changing the law. Don't sit there and "do it anyway."</i>

    OK. . .in the commonwealth of virginia, The commonwealth in which I reside, it is a class 6 felony for my wife and I to perform some "actions" in the bedroom which I'll be honest with you. . .I'm never going to stop doing.

    § 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.

    A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony

    § 18.2-344 "Fornication" makes what my wife and I did prior to being married a class 4 misdemeanor.

    Some laws really are THAT stupid and don't have a place amongst honest people. I don't want the state to govern my actions inside my bedroom with my wife and I; and I don't want the state to tell me when I may and may have have the ability to protect myself and my loved ones.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

  6. #6
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Pace wrote:
    If I see a police officer on the corner, do I need to run down to the corner and tell him I'm carrying a weapon? How close does he have to be?

    Sounds like from the sound of it, he DID inform them when they engaged him in a matter regarding law enforcement.
    Negative, there must be an encounter, not just "in the vicinity."

    Please read the part halfway down the article,
    "Cox notified police he was carrying a weapon at the same time the concealed pistol was discovered during a search, Yamamoto said. The two men had talked earlier, he said, and the presence of the weapon never came up."


    He encountered the officer before the following encounter during the complete incident, he broke the law.

    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  7. #7
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    OK. . .in the commonwealth of virginia, The commonwealth in which I reside, it is a class 6 felony for my wife and I to perform some "actions" in the bedroom which I'll be honest with you. . .I'm never going to stop doing.

    <statutes>


    Some laws really are THAT stupid and don't have a place amongst honest people. I don't want the state to govern my actions inside my bedroom with my wife and I; and I don't want the state to tell me when I may and may have have the ability to protect myself and my loved ones.
    Those statutes you listed would cover individuals not acting lawfully, like having relations with a person not an adult.

    In cases of paedophilia, they'll most likely be charged with many statutes, including those which you listed.

    The have already been cases in the supreme court regarding sodomy, Lawrence v. Texas.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

    Simply put, two consenting adults can perform all the sodomy they want and not be convicted. If someone made an attempt to charge an individual for Sodomy in Virginia, it would not only be dropped, the defendants would most likely take the prosecutors to court with a civil lawsuit(1983 or otherwise).
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    § 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.

    A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony

    § 18.2-344 "Fornication" makes what my wife and I did prior to being married a class 4 misdemeanor.
    18.2-361 was declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS in Lawrence v. Texas.

    18.2-344 was declared unconstitutional by the Virginia Supreme Court in Martin v. Ziherl (2005).

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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    TOPIC TITLE IS REFERRING TO ALASKA LAW.

    http://newsminer.com/view/full_story...weapons-charge

    Even though people assume I may be fringe until they speak with me due to how I dress, I don't support fringe actions or people.

    If you don't like the laws, move. Follow the law and you won't get charged, it's simple.

    Far too often I hear excuses/statements from other individuals(some even instructors, business owners, activists, etc) like:
    "It's not illegal unless you get caught"
    "I carry concealed at the post office even though it's illegal. They don't know if it's concealed"
    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
    *several other excuses*

    Look, the law is the law. Don't like the law, make a difference by changing the law. Don't sit there and "do it anyway." People sit there and voice for the firearm rights yet commit crimes to NOT help. I'm not talking about just firearm crimes, if you read the article Cox committed a crime earlier this month which wasn't firearms related.

    People need to do as they say, be law abiding. If you have an activity/sexual preference(age, etc)/or other kink/odd activity/disagree with laws like armed while intoxicated, then MOVE.

    If you're in the area I'll help pack your bags, but do NOT, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT commit crimes if you're going to be a representative to the community for civil rights/firearm rights/or any type of pro-right activity.

    I've been beating this horse to death for quite some time, and get utterly sick of idiots posting things like that (I'll carry anyway, 6vs12, etc.) Every time someone decides to be Mr. Badass, they make the rest of us look bad. They also completely remove the 'law-abiding citizen' thing from the equation. As far as I'm concerned, you break the law, you're a criminal. Now you just became another number in the count of criminals with guns.


  10. #10
    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    And the people who broke those laws before they were struck down?

    I'm not saying the "declare on encounter" law is unconstitutional, I don't know. However, I am saying sometimes one must stand on principle when the law does not.

  11. #11
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Saint,

    The guy is provocative, he organizes groups to watch cops and call people over to watch them over an event he hears on the radio.

    I'd have thought he would've informed the officer since 1) he wears body armor openly and 2) he is supposedly a pro 2nd but doesn't follow the law?

    When I knowingly speak to cops, I'll tell them if I've a concealed weapon, which I generally do not carry concealed. One of the main reasons I open carry, at least in Alaska, no legal requirement to inform officers unless I'm in a vehicle.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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