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Thread: Banning Open Carry the new target of The Brady Campaign

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    http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla.../opencarryguns

    Overview

    POSITION: The Brady Campaign opposes the unregulated open carry of guns in public places and supports the rights of businesses to keep out persons who seek to carry firearms, whether openly or concealed, onto their premises.

    PROBLEM: More and more gun owners, seeking to “make a statement” about their right to have a gun, are openly carrying guns in public places like restaurants and coffee shops, as well as to political events like town hall meetings. Some gun owners have even openly carried assault weapons and other guns outside of Presidential events. Although most states regulate the carrying of concealed weapons, at least by requiring a license, few states regulate open carry.

    THREAT: The open carrying of firearms in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when open carry has occurred in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of openly-displayed handguns and assault weapons.

    URGENCY: There is a growing “open carry” movement among gun activists, who seek to make a political statement by gathering in coffee shops, restaurants and other public locations with their guns openly on display. Given the absence of meaningful regulation of open carry in the vast majority of states, more and more Americans will be faced with the intimidation and danger of confronting guns in public places.

    SOLUTION: Businesses should bar the open, as well as the concealed, carry of firearms on their premises. States where open carry is largely unregulated should either prohibit open carry, with limited exceptions, or adopt measures to subject open carry to strict licensing requirements in the interest of public safety.

    GET ACTIVE: Click here to sign our petition asking Starbucks Coffee Company to adopt a gun free policy. Click here to find out about open carry laws in your state.

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    POSITION: The Brady Campaign opposes the unregulated open carry of guns in public places and supports the rights of businesses to keep out persons who seek to carry firearms, whether openly or concealed, onto their premises.

    Q. What does “open carry” refer to?

    A. “Open carry” refers to the practice of carrying firearms, including assault weapons and handguns, in public so that the firearm is visible to others. It is contrasted with “concealed carry,” which refers to carrying guns in public so that they are hidden from view.

    Q. How does regulation of open carry differ from regulation of concealed carry?

    A. With the exception of Alaska and Vermont, states regulate the carrying of concealed weapons, at least by requiring a license to carry, issued only after certain legal requirements are met. In contrast, in the majority of states open carry is virtually unregulated. Click here to see the law in your state.

    Q. Why is open carry a problem?

    A. More and more gun owners, seeking to “make a statement” about their right to have a gun, are openly carrying guns, particularly pistols and other handguns, in public places like restaurants and coffee shops, as well as to political events like town hall meetings.

    For example, in the summer of 2009, a man stood outside the venue of a Presidential appearance on health care reform in New Hampshire with a pistol openly strapped to his thigh (Murray, 2009). A dozen people openly carrying guns were among the protestors outside the convention center in Phoenix where the President was giving a speech, including one who walked around with an AR-15 assault rifle strapped to his back (Associated Press, 2009). Groups of gun owners also have begun gathering at restaurants and coffee shops, with their handguns openly displayed.

    The open display of firearms in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when open carry has occurred in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. As a Sheriff’s Lieutenant in California put it, “Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation,” because when police respond to a “man with a gun” call, they have no idea what the intentions of the gun carrier may be and “the result could be deadly” (San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office, 2010).

    Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of openly-displayed guns.

    Q. If the law allows open carry in most places, then what can businesses do to prevent it?

    A. Even the states that permit open carry also permit businesses to implement “gun-free” policies by barring members of the public who are carrying guns. Just as retail stores may, for example, bar patrons who are not wearing shoes, they may similarly bar patrons who are carrying guns. Businesses may enforce such a policy by posting signs at prominent places within the premises. For example, when groups of gun owners began gathering at coffee houses and restaurants in Northern California’s Bay Area, two national retail chains – Peet’s Coffee & Tea and California Pizza Kitchen – announced that they would not allow open carry of firearms in their stores (Yoo and Garrone, 2010).

    Q. If gun owners can simply get a license to carry concealed, why do they want to openly carry guns, particularly concealable handguns, in public?

    A. There may be a variety of motivations for gun owners to want to openly carry firearms. For example, some may want to carry guns in public, but cannot meet the requirements for a concealed carry license or may be in jurisdictions with strict limitations on concealed carry. Increasingly, though, gun owners are engaging in open carry to make a symbolic statement about the importance of guns to society and their opposition to restrictions on guns. There are, however, many alternative ways of voicing these views in a free society without introducing the dangers of guns into public places.

    Q. How does open carry relate to the overall agenda and tactics of the gun lobby?

    A. Open carry is part of a broader campaign, led by the National Rifle Association, to force guns into every corner of American society by “normalizing” the carrying of guns in public places, openly and concealed. The NRA led the effort to get states to revise their laws on concealed carry to deprive law enforcement authorities of the discretion to fully evaluate applicants for concealed carry licenses, requiring the police to issue such licenses to virtually anyone who could pass a criminal background check. The NRA is now pressing for legislation to legalize concealed carry in bars, churches, workplace parking lots, parks, college campuses and elsewhere. Open carry is simply another way of advancing the NRA’s “any gun, anywhere, anytime” philosophy. The NRA’s vision of America is one in which there is nowhere we can go, or bring our families, and escape the guns.

    In addition, open carry is consistent with the gun lobby’s longstanding tactic of using intimidation to advance its extremist views. The appearance of openly carried guns at political events certainly communicates the message that, as the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre put it, “The guys with the guns make the rules” (Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 2009).

    Q. Aren’t gun owners who are openly carrying guns simply exercising their Second Amendment rights?

    A. Although the U.S. Supreme Court held, in its 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, that the Second Amendment guarantees a right to possess guns in the home for self-defense, it has never held that the Second Amendment protects the carrying of guns outside the home. Thus, state and local governments are free to regulate, or prohibit, the open or concealed carrying of guns. There also is no constitutional barrier to businesses establishing “gun free” policies; indeed, the right to control one’s own property gives businesses the freedom to establish those policies.

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    I think the Brady Campaign is giving the NRA credit where none is due.

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    I clicked on the link. I find it amusing that they have a tab at the top of the page called "FACTS".:?
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
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    44Brent wrote:
    I think the Brady Campaign is giving the NRA credit where none is due.
    The NRA is the Brady Bunch's bad cop to their 'good cop'. The NRA and the BCPGV are obverse and reverse of the same slimy slice of gun control baloney, the left and the right sides, one up in the sun and the other down and "ridin' dirty".

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    One thought after reading the Brady site: So this is what it looks like when Libtards cry...

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    Perhaps the least we can do is contact Starbucks at "http://www.starbucks.com/customer-service/contact/company-information-form" to voice our support on their choice not to cave in to the Libtards. I could not post this as a link, so just copy/paste.

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    Since the Brady Camp keeps claiming that we only OC to "make a statement", I can only conclude that the "statement" we're makingis seriously hurting their credibility, and they want us silenced.

    OC is the Brady's worst nightmare. :what:

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    Yeah we are making a statement- to "commie- libs" and criminals.

    To "commie-libs": Not all states are NYC, NJ, or Chicago, or any of the other few remaining states/cities that have laws that empower criminals and shame the law abiding via PC to the point of making them easy victims.

    To criminals: We are here, we are armed, and you best take your criminal behavior elseware, or even better- quit being criminals and join society.

    Brady Bunch= rats on the Titanic. Iceberg, right ahead!

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    The weird thing is that they are about 4 years late in recognizing the open carry movement - by 2006, things were moving along nicely for open carry in many states - by 2008, open carry was pretty much everywhere.

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    Plankton wrote:
    I clicked on the link. I find it amusing that they have a tab at the top of the page called "FACTS".:?
    It should read "Fantasy"
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

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    Mike wrote:
    The weird thing is that they are about 4 years late in recognizing the open carry movement - by 2006, things were moving along nicely for open carry in many states - by 2008, open carry was pretty much everywhere.
    And we can't thank you, John, and so many others, for your hard work and support.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

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    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

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    Mike wrote:
    The weird thing is that they are about 4 years late in recognizing the open carry movement - by 2006, things were moving along nicely for open carry in many states - by 2008, open carry was pretty much everywhere.
    They're too busy hiding in church basementsfrom the video cameras OCers would otherwise bring to their meetings. Keeps 'em out of touch, ya know.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Mike wrote:
    The weird thing is that they are about 4 years late in recognizing the open carry movement - by 2006, things were moving along nicely for open carry in many states - by 2008, open carry was pretty much everywhere.
    Slow learners?

    Obviously, the Brady Camp had believed that the general public would not be able to put 2 and 2 together, and realize that even though people were carrying handguns openly in their presence, there weren't any gunfights in the streets breaking out. The contradictory results have been devastating.

    I think the reason the NRA doesn't want to recognize OC and OCDO is because of what we've been able to accomplish, in swaying public opinion,without the multi-million dollar funding NRA has. Big time ego bruise.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I think the reason the NRA doesn't want to recognize OC and OCDO is because of what we've been able to accomplish, in swaying public opinion,without the multi-million dollar funding NRA has. Big time ego bruise.
    I think it's less of an ego bruise and more of a "Oh crap, we're going to lose our profit margin if this grassroots crap keeps working."

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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I think the reason the NRA doesn't want to recognize OC and OCDO is because of what we've been able to accomplish, in swaying public opinion,without the multi-million dollar funding NRA has. Big time ego bruise.
    I think it's less of an ego bruise and more of a "Oh crap, we're going to lose our profit margin if this grassroots crap keeps working."
    hmmm.... yup, could be that, too.

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    Makes you wonder, what would the brady campaign say if they started offering M16A1s for the Civilian Marksmanship Program? :what:

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Since the Brady Camp keeps claiming that we only OC to "make a statement", I can only conclude that the "statement" we're makingis seriously hurting their credibility, and they want us silenced.

    OC is the Brady's worst nightmare. :what:
    High-Five! :celebrate
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    Makes you wonder, what would the brady campaign say if they started offering M16A1s for the Civilian Marksmanship Program? :what:
    Their screams of horror would be deafening.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    Makes you wonder, what would the brady campaign say if they started offering M16A1s for the Civilian Marksmanship Program? :what:
    Their screams of horror would be deafening.
    Music to my ears, TF.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Since the Brady Camp keeps claiming that we only OC to "make a statement", I can only conclude that the "statement" we're makingis seriously hurting their credibility, and they want us silenced.

    OC is the Brady's worst nightmare. :what:
    Second worse. Their worse nightmare would be for an OC'er to actually have to use his arm in his, and other's, defense successfully.

    Oh God, we can't have that now can we. A miscreant open carrier having to pull his gun and fire on some poor, society-trampled individual who is the REAL victim an was just trying to take what is rightfully his to use to feed himself and perhaps his family. We can't have some gun-totin' cowboy who believes that his car and his wallet are his and carries a gun with which to defend himself and his loved ones.

    Or even worse, the true victim who is only looking for help might see his gun and turn to some other citizen for assistance. No, no... we can't have any of this.


    (All sarcasm intended. Writer not liable for hurt feelings, damaged egos, or destroyed self-esteem.)

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    The Brady Campaign... repeat after me... "threatening and intimidating, threatening and intimidating, threatening and intimidating...":celebrate

    John



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    The Brady Campaign and all anti gun people absolutely must make open carry go away... or their tactics of spreading unfounded fear as a method of furthering their agenda of controlling "we the people" will be exposed for what it is.... baseless, factless, psychological manipulation through the insidious spread of fear.

    Once that method is exposed to the sunlight of factual reality all hopes of control evaporate.

    And open carry proves there is nothing to fear, not just from guns but from the freedom from control that the gun represents,... and that without fear the elites who desire control have no power to control.

    The recent Starbucks controversy uncovered something the Brady's didn't expect.... that business owners also have the right to not ban! And, by extension, people have the right to not be controlled. Which effectively proves the Brady's (and their ilk everywhere) have no real power.... and proves that the Brady's aren't interested in anything other than telling other people what to do... (elitist control).

    Rant warning!!! Read the following only if you wish to be exposed to an opinion!!!

    It is my opinion that what we are seeing at this point in History with gun control, national health care, cap and trade, and the rampant growth of government, is nothing more than a concerted effort to return the United States to a feudal state where the elite Lords and Ladies in the castle rule over the peasants in the mud huts. And in order to secure the Lords and Ladies power to rule not only must the peasants be appeased with free stuff... the guns must be confiscated so there can be no possible opposition to the ruling class's .... rule.

    Sadly many, if not most, of those peasants are lured into believing that the Lords and Ladies in the castle will be generous in supplying the peasants with fancy..... mud huts. And that childish mentality will gladly give up everything just to get a free fancy.......... mud hut.

    Ok.... my Thursday morning disgusted with the way the country is going... and the lemming like people who want free mud huts are so happy with the way the country is going.... rant is over....

    Carry on folks!
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Robocop wrote:
    Perhaps the least we can do is contact Starbucks at "http://www.starbucks.com/customer-service/contact/company-information-form" to voice our support on their choice not to cave in to the Libtards. I could not post this as a link, so just copy/paste.

    I haven't contacted them; I just give them money, as recently as yesterday.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Since the Brady Camp keeps claiming that we only OC to "make a statement", I can only conclude that the "statement" we're makingis seriously hurting their credibility, and they want us silenced.

    OC is the Brady's worst nightmare. :what:
    Second worse. Their worse nightmare would be for an OC'er to actually have to use his arm in his, and other's, defense successfully.

    Oh God, we can't have that now can we. A miscreant open carrier having to pull his gun and fire on some poor, society-trampled individual who is the REAL victim an was just trying to take what is rightfully his to use to feed himself and perhaps his family. We can't have some gun-totin' cowboy who believes that his car and his wallet are his and carries a gun with which to defend himself and his loved ones.

    Or even worse, the true victim who is only looking for help might see his gun and turn to some other citizen for assistance. No, no... we can't have any of this.

    (All sarcasm intended. Writer not liable for hurt feelings, damaged egos, or destroyed self-esteem.)
    It's already happened, remember? Down in Richmond last summer a guy used his openly carried old west style revolver to shoot a robber who had already shot the store owner.

    Here's the link.

    TFred

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