It seems illogical

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Downriver wrote:

If I ever feel the need to pack, it will because of people like you.

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Generally, the ones that feel the need to pack to deal with law abiding citizens are criminals.

You say that you aren't a troll but you haven't given a single reasoned response to any of the responses youhave received.

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Downriver wrote:

Reading your posts leads me to believe you are delusional, that somehow you think you and even your wife are somehow to "situationally aware" to be a victim. That is total BS, and if you indeed think that, then you have no business carrying a firearm and most definitely no business as an LEO, which I doubt.

If I ever feel the need to pack, it will because of people like you.

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'Pack'? People carry... 'packing' is for luggage. Reading 'your' posts leads me to believe you are an ignorant sort and prefer to remain so. There is no verifiable incident in the entire country of an (LAC) open carrier being 'attacked' and his weapon taken. Not one... anywhere... Ever! The only person having delusions here is you. You are indeed a troll. Oh... btw... I'm a former LEO as well as retired military. Doubt what you will. I open carry daily. G'bye!

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"Packing" is a term used by gangbangers, are you a gang member?

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Downriver wrote:

Reading your posts leads me to believe you are delusional, that somehow you think you and even your wife are somehow to "situationally aware" to be a victim. That is total BS, and if you indeed think that, then you have no business carrying a firearm and most definitely no business as an LEO, which I doubt.

If I ever feel the need to pack, it will because of people like you.

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Thank you for returning for reasoned discourse. I will retract my previous comment about trolling as you seem to be willing to discuss (however illogically) the caryying of firearms.

Speaking of logic, if your premise is to make any sense whatsoever, please inform me the resoning why your very argument applies to law enforcement.

After all, why do they feel the "need" to openly carry their firearms? If carrying a gun is so bad and evil, why do you allow the police to do so? Shouldn't those upstanding members of law enforcement not display those scary handguns? After all, they're only required to shoot a couple of rounds at a still paper target once every year or so. What makes them as qualified to operate such a deadly weapon as I, a twice ranked Missouri State IDPA competitor and graduate of several highly esteemed firearms academies? I mean, since they are only required to pop a few rounds downrange every year, whereas I, an avid enthusiast, put several hundred into the ten ring every week, how can you support letting these unskilled and less trained carry such deadly weapons around for all to see?

Is it the shiny metal disk that suddenly makes their lives worthy of potecting themselves? So, does this mean if I polish up a hunk of chrome and pin it to my chest, my life is suddenly more valuable? Enough to warrant self protection instead of relying on someone who isn't even here?

Answer this oh master of reasoned discourse:

What does the "feeling" of safety have to do with anything? I can name 32 people right now who "felt" perfectly safe walking into a classroom at Virginia Tech. I wonder, as they walked into their classrooms that morning, how many of them do you think "felt" safe? You'd probably agree with me that they wouldn't feel like they needed a handgun that morning, right? How did this feeling of safety help them out in any way as Suenh Hui Cho put lead bullets into their heads one by one? What about Dr. Susanna Hupp? Remember her? You know. The law abiding citizen who legally carried a firearm to Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen Texas? Thanks to laws passed to appease you hoplophobes, she willingly left her firearm in her vehicle according to Texas Sate law. Too bad. Minutes after entering she was greeted by George Hennard firing bullets into both of her parents heads while she was left defenseless. Thanks to folks like you scared of law abiding citizens. Tell me:

Why didn't George Hennard obey the law? Last time I checked, MURDERING PEOPLE WAS AGAINST THE LAW. Hennard didn't seem to concerned with that one, did he? Why would he be concerned with the one requiring him to disarm? Dr. Hupp obeyed it.

Think any of those folks in Luby's FELT like they needed a gun before walking in? Evidently, like you, they felt unsafe with all those law abiding citizens carrying guns. So they made it against the law to carry into a restaurant. Good thing they disarmed all those who willingly followed the law. I'm sure they "felt" much safer knowing that peaceful folks like Dr. Hupp were unarmed. Tell me:

How exactly do you think they felt as George Hennard pointed his pistols at them and started putting bullets in their heads? How'd that feeling of safety work out for them?

Now. Maybe you're a good ESP practitioner. Maybe you're clairvoiant. Maybe you can tell me the actual place of the next mass shooting. So far, I'm a little foggy about where these happen. (You anti's always carp about where I don't need my gun. Well, since you're so clairvoiant, please inform me where I will need it.)

If I ever feel the need to pack, it will because of people like you.

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Who? We law abiding citizens like Dr. Hupp? I'm afraid of folks like George Hennard who could care less about your felings. Evidently, you believe in disarming peaceful folks Like Dr. Hupp. (We see how effective this is against criminals like Cho and Hennard.)

Who are you calling delusional? Hey, I'm not the one who thinks they can sit around unarmed and, when a dangerous situation happens, use a phone to call folks who aren't even thereto bring guns and save me before the thing I'm calling them about happens.

Yeah. This makes sense.

BTW: If you are so afraid of folks with guns, why would you call folks with guns to save you from folks with guns?

Wouldn't it be simpler to just carry a gun of your own?

Oh.....I see. No shiny metal disk. This makes sense, huh?

Who's delusional?

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Downriver wrote:

Reading your posts leads me to believe you are delusional, that somehow you think you and even your wife are somehow to "situationally aware" to be a victim. That is total BS, and if you indeed think that, then you have no business carrying a firearm and most definitely no business as an LEO, which I doubt.

If I ever feel the need to pack, it will because of people like you.

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Hey mods? Do we have to be polite to the trolls too?

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Downriver wrote:

Reading your posts leads me to believe you are delusional, that somehow you think you and even your wife are somehow to "situationally aware" to be a victim. That is total BS, and if you indeed think that, then you have no business carrying a firearm and most definitely no business as an LEO, which I doubt.

If I ever feel the need to pack, it will because of people like you.

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You're the delusional one. First you want to know why you can't go out in public without being subject to your family witnessing lawful citizens carrying protection, and then you ask what's to stop the crazy nutbags from clubbing us on the head, taking our weapon, and going Columbine on everyone nearby. What you fail to understand is that the very question you ask has proved you wrong.

If someone is actually insane enough to attack a man carrying a gun, then it shows the carrying of said gun was needed in the first place. If someone is crazy enough to open up on the public then you have your answer right there. The fact that there was a lawful citizen carrying a holstered weapon is irrelevant, because the dude going postal will do so regardless of whether he just clubbed someone carrying a weapon or not.

You're an idiot dude, just admit it.

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Ya know, I've been thinking about how else to answer this question. I think I have a good answer. I don't needa reason to carry a firearm, other than the fact that I can. Though I choose to carry a firearm because I am the only person responsible for the safety of my family and myself. On another note, I see that you only have 5 posts, and that your think that you can't be wrong, even though we have given solid arguments. Soooo. I deem you to be a troll. Good day to you, Mr. Troll. I hope that you one day, will decide to stop being a victim. Though, you probably won't.

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OCforAll wrote:

What you fail to understand is that the very question you ask has proved you wrong.

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Very good observation OC! I missed this!

Yeah, How dare you crazy OC'ers pack a gun when it isn't needed! After all, some crazy nutcase whacko might assault you and take it away! (But...but....but.....I thought society was so safe that we didn't need guns?)

You're right OCforAll. The best wayfor Downriver towinan argument is probably not to destroyhis own point first.

Yeah.Downriver's statement of us being the delusional is filling with water all the time. I suggesthe stop trying to shore uphis leaky argument with a screen door.

But wait, maybe he feels like he's winning?

After all, it's not reality, it's feelings that are important, right?

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"my right to take my family out without having to worry about a bunch of whackos who may or may not even know basic firearms safety packing deadly weapons?"

Is this right in the constitution? I've never seen it. "Shall Not Be Infringed" is pretty strong language, so I think that trumps your "right".

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Also your post had an impolite tone even though speaking to complete strangers who have never mistreated you, marking you as the "whacko" and as a generally rude person. This board has a policy against personal attacks, please be polite.

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Superlite27 wrote:

BTW: If you are so afraid of folks with guns, why would you call folks with guns to save you from folks with guns?

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(awesome statement!)


Yeah, the ones with the tin badge on their chest are the only ones you can trust, an here's some video to prove it. :uhoh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb9ktN1Xf2s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z2Le3GkL3w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR972mnpqLo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPNX3Hnyc4E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibSwITK4jjQ&feature=related


And let's not forget the biggest doucebag cop of all time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc


Yeah, I'd feel so much safer if only the cops & the bad guys had all the guns.

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Downriver wrote:

Why should your right to carry trump my right to take my family out without having to worry about...

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I am afraid of black people. They are dangerous, they may not know proper life safety. They could murder me at any time with those big, black fists of theirs.

Consider: I have this fear, and yet: blacks exist.

Do I also have a "right to take my family out without having to worry about blacks"? How may I exercise this right?




Edit: For the record, I'm not actually afraid of blacks. Merely creating an analogy to a mindset which was very real at one point in American history.

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@DownRiver-----would you mind if i ask you some specific questions that i personally would like your answers to???

1) do you personally know anybody in the military that has been overseas???

2) have you ever said to one of them: "thanks for your services and protecting our rights and our countries safety???

3) if so, why is it that you believe it's ok for them to OPEN CARRY overseas to protect the people around them, but when they come back home, they shouldn't have the same right to protect their families and those around them from criminals???

4) my wife was in the military, was overseas in bosnia and also got called out the morning after 9/11. she open carried a M16A2. she didn't carry it to "go killing people", she carried it to protect herself and those around her. the same reason why Police carry their guns. are you telling me that it's ok for my wife to fight for AMERICAN CITIZENS RIGHTS while being in war, but when she returns home, she is NOT ALLOWED to enjoy the RIGHTS that she just put her life on the line for???

5) what would you do if you if you came home from work, and found a guy raping your wife???

6) do you think your wife should have a right to protect herself from being raped, or do you think she should just lay there while she is being raped and then call 911 AFTER he is finished with her???

7) what if your wife was walking your dog in the park and somebody tried to rape her??? would you or would you not want your wife to be able to protect herself???

8) one of my wifes best friends was raped in the park not even a 1/4mile from our house. the same park that my wife takes the dogs for walks, and the same park that she goes jogging in. can you honestly blame her for wanting to protect herself??? or if you think that guns are not the answer, what would you recommend she do???

9) if you were in your home sleeping with your family, and suddenly you heard a burglar in your house, what would you do???

10) i have personally talked to several Police officers in my area, and in conversation they actually said: "We can NOT be everywhere at once, and it takes us time to respond to a call. It is YOUR job to protect yourself and your family and stand your ground until we can get there to take over". What do you have to say to such a remark coming from Law enforcement???


Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.

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Downriver wrote:

This is not a troll and you nor the previous poster are answering the question. I own firearms, but I do not see the need to pack when I go to town.

If you can't provide a reasoned response you simply reinforce the point.

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IF I were to realize an absolute need to have a firearm in my possession to visit a certain place, I would avoid that place because it is obviously too dangerous for me to take my family too.
Why do you fear law abiding citizens exercising their constitutionally guaranteed right? You should fear the criminals who are illegally carrying firearms with intentions to use them against innocent people instead!

Downriver, I think you are absolutely missing the point of one being able to defend themselves and their family if the need were to arise.
Why would you entrust your life and welfare to a government employee? (the police)
When have you ever seen a police officer stop a crime from happening? they only show up to document what has happened and try to catch the criminal who perpetrated that crime.



Lets use this for a typical "Downriver Question;
"why would you ever carry a firearm at an amusement park?"
This is why

Father badly beaten after trying to protect daughter at Valleyfair

7/15/2008

kare11.com

Six men remain in the Scott County jail following what police call a brutal assault on a father trying to protect his daughter.

Shakopee police say as the crowd was leaving Valleyfair Amusement Park around midnight on the 4th of July, the victim's daughter was confronted by two blackmen.

"The 12-year-old daughter was either touched or slapped in the buttocks area," Scott County Attorney Patrick Ciliberto said. "The father confronted (the men) by yelling at them for what they had done to his daughter," he added.
Police say the two men called their friends, who were also in the park. The group of seven black men and a black juvenile then confronted the father.

"They beat him to the ground and then, the evidence that we have, when he was on the ground, they used their feet on him. They were kicking him in the face when he was down," Ciliberto said.

According to the criminal complaints, the men were stomping on the 41-year-old father as he lay on the ground, unconscious.

He suffered severe head injuries, including a fractured right orbital bone and possible subdural bleeding on the brain. "We don't know if there are permanent injuries yet," the County Attorney said.

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Now imagine if this was you coming out of the amusement park with your family, and after they have beaten you into oblivion, they thenabduct your wife and daughter and gang-rape them for days on end before leaving them for dead.
Wouldn't it have been great if you could have defended yourself and your family against these animalistic sub-human scum?
How would you feel if you were not able to defend them?
Now ask us again why we carry the means to defend ourselves and our loved ones against the scum of the earth.

Crime can and will happen anytime at anyplace, it is better to be prepared and have the proper tools available to defend yourself against a gang of violent criminals and hopefully never be in a situation where you need to use your gun, Then to have the need for a gun, and not have one.

I happen to live in an area that sees very little violent crime, but I have been forced to defend myself. I am damn glad I had the proper means to do so, instead of getting injured or killed by not having a gun in my possession.

Wake up and smell the pizza, only you are responsible for your own defense if some attacks you, do you think the police are going to make it there in time to save you from an attack? Ask the mayor of Milwaukee how dialing 9-11 worked out for him when he got attacked last summer. he is lucky to be alive, and even luckier the people with him were not attacked too!!
Be responsible for yourself, quit relying on someone else!

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The troll has evidently moved on. Way too much logic for him here.

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JT wrote:

The troll has evidently moved on.  Way too much logic for him here.

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That's what I figure. It got so confused and angry at the logic we threw out, that he just left to go talk to other people like him.

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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Sorry, I'm allergic to the troll BS. Too bad there isn't an open season for trolls eh?

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I was thinking about using that image. Haha. Decided to go with this one though.

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he never answered my questions.

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I think the Brady's or VPC hires these trolls to testthe waters.