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Thread: Just what kind of Carry is this ?

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    Ok Ladies and Gentleman, I need some help on this one. As you can see form the pictures, I carry a Smith & Wesson 9mm. I have carried this way for many years now. Pretty mush dress casual every day. Never make any attempt to cover up, unless I put on a coat or jacket if its cold. I do every thing this way, get gas, and go to work. Carry at work shop at most stores. I do stay away from bars and liquor stores.
    The other day I had a short discussion with a friend. He said that he was concerned that I may be in violation of my CPL, or Michigan Carry Laws. Well this got me to thinking. I have looked on this site through many of the forum posts, and am unable to find anything that may answer my concerns. Does anybody have any input?

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Having A CPL you are ok to carry as pictured. If it is OC or CC is going to be a huge debate. However if you are going to go to a location where by law you have to OC I would suggest another holster and avoid the IWB.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Some police, prosecutors and judges consider that to be concealed.

    We advise to not carry this way (thinking it's open) into PFZ's listed in the CPL statute.



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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    IMO, any rational person would consider that a method of open carry, but there are officers and prosecutors out there who think otherwise. Gray areas are locations where you may only open carry WITH a cpl, and whether or not you must disclose as required by concealed weapons legislation. There is no case law to my knowledge defining that method as one way or the other.

    eta:you're too fast, dougwg.
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Just as backup to what these guys have said, there are members here who have run into legal trouble using this very method of carry, so this isn't just speculation.

    I would say treat it like CC until someone makes case law. :?

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    If you ever need to carry openly under your CPL into a criminal empowerment zone, you should tuck the holster between your belt and pants, rather than inside your pants, so that the holster and gun are completely visible aside from the small amount of holster that the belt will cover.


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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    wrcken2 wrote:
    Ok Ladies and Gentleman, I need some help on this one. As you can see form the pictures, I carry a Smith & Wesson 9mm. I have carried this way for many years now. Pretty mush dress casual every day. Never make any attempt to cover up, unless I put on a coat or jacket if its cold. I do every thing this way, get gas, and go to work. Carry at work shop at most stores. I do stay away from bars and liquor stores.
    The other day I had a short discussion with a friend. He said that he was concerned that I may be in violation of my CPL, or Michigan Carry Laws. Well this got me to thinking. I have looked on this site through many of the forum posts, and am unable to find anything that may answer my concerns. Does anybody have any input?
    Ok, I have one question. Why avoid liquor stores?
    Big Gay Al
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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    wrcken2 wrote:
    I need some help on this one. . . .
    Carrying openly in an IWB holsterdoes not have any case law yet which has defined whether or not juries or courts inMichiganwill consider it "open carry" or "concealed carry". Some prosecutors haveconsidered it concealed carry, and have charged peopleaccordingly. Thus far, no case has gone to trial and resulted in eitheracquittal or conviction of someone openly carrying IWB and charged with a CCW violation.

    Unless you have the time and money to be a potential test case, treat IWB open carry as concealed carry. That means, don't do it unless you have a CPL and don't do it if going into aconcealed carry "pistol-free" zone.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I need some help on this one. . . .
    Carrying openly in an IWB holsterdoes not have any case law yet which has defined whether or not juries or courts inMichiganwill consider it "open carry" or "concealed carry". Some prosecutors haveconsidered it concealed carry, and have charged peopleaccordingly. Thus far, no case has gone to trial and resulted in eitheracquittal or conviction of someone openly carrying IWB and charged with a CCW violation.

    Unless you have the time and money to be a potential test case, treat IWB open carry as concealed carry. That means, don't do it unless you have a CPL and don't do it if going into aconcealed carry "pistol-free" zone.
    I thought someone had been arrested using an IWB for open carry. At least I recall seeing a message thread to that effect.
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    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    CrossPistols wrote:
    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.
    What was the ticket for?

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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.
    What was the ticket for?
    Well Doug?? You're the best one here to answer the man.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    that looks like Virginia Carry to me...
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.
    What was the ticket for?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2j...layer_embedded

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    As others have advised, don't carry this way. It is a gray area and could easily be considered CC.

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    RabbiVJ wrote:
    that looks like Virginia Carry to me...
    It is very similar to the Virginia tuck

  17. #17
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    budlight wrote:
    As others have advised, don't carry this way. It is a gray area and could easily be considered CC.
    As others have advised, don't carry this way. It is a gray area and could easily be considered OC.


    It may attract the attention of police and concerned citizens that will call about a "Man With A Gun". You will scare children & little old ladies. Not to mention well adjusted macho men that are secure about their manhood.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Leader wrote:
    budlight wrote:
    As others have advised, don't carry this way. It is a gray area and could easily be considered CC.
    As others have advised, don't carry this way. It is a gray area and could easily be considered OC.


    It may attract the attention of police and concerned citizens that will call about a "Man With A Gun". You will scare children & little old ladies. Not to mention well adjusted macho men that are secure about their manhood.
    In regards to the parts of you post I have highlighted in bold...

    I do believe that "well adjusted macho men that are secure about their manhood" are "children" who act like "little old ladies".



    Sad to say I've met entirely too many of those "macho men" who wet their panties at the sight of someone carrying a gun.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Leader wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.
    What was the ticket for?
    Well Doug?? You're the best one here to answer the man.
    CCW

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.
    What was the ticket for?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2j...layer_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BkCj...eature=related

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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    Not arrested, detained. He was ticketed and let go to carry on the same way he was cited for... If my memory serves me correctly.
    What was the ticket for?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2j...layer_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BkCj...eature=related
    Boring. Couldn't get past the first 45 seconds before I started to fall asleep.

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Interesting. I got bored of the first 5 seconds of the other one.
    Big Gay Al
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    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

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    I would like to thank those whom replied to my question. Especially sprinklerguy28, dougwg, Taurus850CIA Michigander and Dan. You guys seem to have really understood my question. Answering a question with a question, well what’s the point? I avoid bars and liquor stores “Because I do not drink.” I did watch both of the You tube videos that someone felt it necessary to post. I guess this is a way to reprimand me for one of three things. First. Yes it “was a question I felt could contribute to the forum”. Second. No there were no other sticky’s or threads that answered my question. And lastly the forum I chose was a matter of personal choice. I do find it odd the two poster of the videos, couldn’t even find the time to watch it for even 5 seconds. Again what’s the point. Well again thank you for your help.

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    Don't mind the abrasive folks... most of em are good people they just sometimes forget what it was like to be new at this and full of questions and worries.

    Feel free to ask any question... none are dumb and if someone says you should have searched for a previous thread...well they should post a link... we are about helping not degrading folks... at least most are.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    wrcken2 wrote:
    I would like to thank those whom replied to my question. Especially sprinklerguy28, dougwg, Taurus850CIA Michigander and Dan. You guys seem to have really understood my question. Answering a question with a question, well what’s the point? I avoid bars and liquor stores “Because I do not drink.” I did watch both of the You tube videos that someone felt it necessary to post. I guess this is a way to reprimand me for one of three things. First. Yes it “was a question I felt could contribute to the forum”. Second. No there were no other sticky’s or threads that answered my question. And lastly the forum I chose was a matter of personal choice. I do find it odd the two poster of the videos, couldn’t even find the time to watch it for even 5 seconds. Again what’s the point. Well again thank you for your help.
    The one I posted was not a reprimand to you.

    As for carrying in liquor stores, I don't drink either....usually. But sometimes I need to get something, and sometimes, the liquor store is the nearest place. As long as you have a CPL, liquor stores are not out of bounds. That's why I asked that question.
    Big Gay Al
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    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

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