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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    " Instead of open carry of pistols why doesn't somebody organize an open carry "assault weapon" march.

    There is that word again. Please clarify your stance on the "Brady Thing", and "assult weapons" The statement "you guys"is very broad and all encompassing.



    Let me just say this.. Ive come to the conclusion,along with.. mainly half of my office.. that If someone is going to open carry - Then you need to expect trouble. okay? It's not as if the police are just inviting you to show off a pistol. If you want to OC. then OC. But don't be like this guy
    I can only surmise you are LEO, or are trolling. Again Please clarify.



    -Whitney


    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    phil teters wrote:
    ...many agencies have policies that if they resopnd..they HAVE to make contact...**
    Would that not be an unlawful order if no crime has been committed? I believe they have a duty to ignore all unlawful orders even if they are written in policy.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Phil teters wrote:
    Let me just say this.. Ive come to the conclusion,along with.. mainly half of my office.. that If someone is going to open carry - Then you need to expect trouble. okay? It's not as if the police are just inviting you to show off a pistol. If you want to OC. then OC. But...
    Im not trying to burn you guys, Not at all..Because I OC when ever I have the chance.
    I also think we need to leave this whole starbucks thing alone, and let it rest. they don't give a crud wether we appreciate them, they want our business not our guns, not our remarks, or our cards.. im just saying.. they are theyre to serve coffee.. we're their to drink it.
    An honestly confusing piece here Phil, and not sure where your intending to stand on the issue. Let me point (politely) that no one, not the police, not you, not the rest of the public have a right to curtail or infringe upon one's sovereign rights to personal protection and American freedom. This is protected by not just the federal Constitution, but the state constitution as well. The LEO (or military)and other public servants are sworn to up hold and protect the Constitution, not for them selves, but for us. If your LEO/military - then i will remind you... Your job is to protect democracy, not practice it.. same with the Police and Gov-workers. They are in effect not supposed to be making their own decision's based on what they think or feel, that is not their job - unfortunately many have forgotten this and run rampant with power that does not belong to them.... So who is inviting me kind sir? Under who's authority is this invitation given? And how dare they think an invitation is even required.. or is this a police state now?

    - Expect trouble? <looks around> haven't seen that yet. Let me point out that I carry a drop-loop western rig on my free time. This stands out without fail, might as well be a rifle since it's that pronounced. It is my personal choice and style that "I" like, not for anyone else to care about. I so far, after being all around Port Orchard, Seattle, Tacoma etc. have not encountered anything beyond a few odd looks. My only "negative" LEO encounter ended in a handshake and polite re-introduction. A few of my Tacoma Police friends mentioned they seen me on TV and thought it was pretty cool. We are (save for some corners like Vancouver - hope that gentleman is doing ok) are sending a very positive message, that most Americans are responsive to, and accepting of. Most of my encounters are very friendly and inquisitive. You surely dont think people really care that much do you? fact is most dont, and thats the way i like it... You dont walk into Starbucks and say "hi i'm cop" do you? People know your a cop, but really who cares unless you like to rub your copiness all up into peoples faces (and yes some do).

    ~ Burn "us guys" ? Your supposed to be one of "us guys" if you OC (even professionally)... Do not be a separatist or create sub division simply because your military, LEO, or some sort of job that carries a firearms. People are people are people, regardless of training or Job, or certificate.. We all are humans, and we all have good and bad in us. Police and military are nothing special when it comes to firearms. Some are exceptionally skilled, and use alot of common sense, and some are dumb as a rock, and even some with evil intent and use the "authority" to harm innocent people, luckily this is a very small percentile (most are honorable and want to do good)... I have trained many peeps in various skills, fact is.. you cannot train common sense, that goes for every one - period. It is about time that the LEO (and similar) start to be part of the community again, remember their role as role models" and as protectors of the community and of the constitutions. You ARE one of us weather you like it or not (unless your a criminal).

    As for Starbucks, i 100% agree with you there, unless your saying i should take off my sidearm before going in so as to not scare the sheeple, or tobow to the Brady's supreme intellect and power, or because the police have not invited me to carry my gun there. I go there to enjoy a cup of coffee, not to be a display, or to "thank them" or to rub anything in anyones face. I go there, buy coffee, sometimes i stay, sometimes i take-to-go. I do quietly thank their fair, neutral, unbiased stance with my simple purchase, however i leave the commentary at home. I wish more stores had their policy, it is refreshing, and admirable, and pro-2A peeps appreciate that regardless of how we approach it.

    I am not intending to be rude here, or to affront you - i was however, admittedly a bit stunted by the apparent separatist feeling of your commentary. If i misunderstood your intentions, then my apologies for the forward commentary, i just feel it is important for LEO (or military) to stop being against it's citizens, rejoin the fray, and take sides against those that would harm the innocents (be against the criminals and evil doers, not the public).


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    phil teters wrote:
    Some must even issue a citation for whatever the crime, or offense..
    Good thing open-carrying a rifle isn't a crime or offense, even if someone is alarmed. All that matters is if it WARRANTS alarm, because of the MANNER in which the rifle is carried, the TIME the rifle is carried, AND the PLACE the rifle is carried (in public does not count as warranting alarm, per attorney-general and multiple court cases).

    I'm not going to go around with my finger on the trigger holding the rifle at ready - it'd be slung on my back as it should be. There would be no legal issue with me doing that, even if it offends police's sense of what citizens should be able to do.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    phil teters wrote:
    First of all, bad idea. Because at some point down the road, I would be arresting you - Im sure of it.
    So you're "sure" you will be violating the inalienable rights of others while acting under color of authority.

    Great, I'm glad you wear your nefarious, and illegal,intentions on your sleeve like that.

    You might want to check out http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

    While I agree walking around with an AR15 or AK47 is an asshat thing to do, especially in the greater seattle area... I also believe that a police officer that pre-judges such a situation, and is so willing to take action based solely on personal bias or based on illegitimate orders from supervisors,doesn't deserve to be employed.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    phil teters wrote:
    they are theyre to serve coffee.. we're their to drink it.
    So whether a person is openly carrying a firearm, or legally carrying a concealed fiream is totally irrelevant.

    Starbucks is there to serve coffee, we're there to drink it. Legal guns don't matter, race doesn't matter, gender doesn't matter, sexual orientation doesn't matter, political affiliation doesn't matter, et cetera.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    I'm not going to quote everything but...

    +100 BAT.

    Well said.



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    So, please tell us, phil teters, exactly what you meant when you swore to support and defend the Constitution.

    If you had been order to do so, would you have participated in the Katrina Gun Confiscation? http://tinyurl.com/3hbm4w

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    Thanks for the clarification... I do have a question since from what I gather you are against the idea of OCing Rifles.

    What did you think/feel when during the Obama movement the gentleman wore his AR to the presidential campaign rally? Do you feel that was 100% over the top and did not make an impact? (good or bad) just curious on your opinion in that situation.

    -Brian

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    You know, I commonly ask myself if it wouldn't be better if we rescinded the 24/7 authority that we give LEOs.

    Would not LE be forced to consider life from the shoes of those they are suppose to be serving more closely if they only held their LEO authority WHEN in uniform and on official duty?

    If they then had to observe all the same firearm, traffic, social laws, receiving no special considerations in daily life (when not in uniform),would that not better ground them in the realities of being Joe Schmo and help most understand better the rights they are suppose to be upholding for the rest?

    I think it would go a long ways to helping people better trust LEO, and helping LEO better understand the public they work for.

    Besides, given the proper rights to its citizens, why would a state need an LEO that is 24/7 authority, but only "on duty" 8-12 hours out of a day?

    Being military myself, i understand the distinct difference between "on call" and "on duty". I may always be "on call" to serve the public, but I am not always "on duty" and therefor not always empowered by the special considerations that military receive.

    I see no reason why it should be different for LE.

    Anyone disagree?

    If so, please attempt to answer in more than a simple rendition of "becauseLE aretrained and better people". :quirkyLE are human and subject to flaw like anyone else, so that explanation doesn't fly.

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    Double post

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    phil teters wrote:
    <SNIP>

    but that lady, has obviously had an issue with guns in the past.. Im jsut saying no matter how many heads you butt. no matter how many people are sending training bullitens.. Not EVERYONE is going to let it slide, and not every LEO is going to let you walk by, strong side - without making contact, legally.
    I don't disagree at all. There will always be a segment who have a problem with "evil black weapons" no mater the education of the public.

    Hell, look at the number of idiots in our society that still believe to the point ofsocial hysteriathat white "anglo-saxon" people and black "African" people, are not the same race, and one is superior to the other. <sigh>

    Your never going to convince everyone, but the tone and pace of how the public at large accepts a social stigma as "normal" is directly effected by the way that social authority figures (politicians, law enforcement, etc.) adopt and enforce policies and procedures to fairly deal with social discrimination.

    Its going to take time, and patient pressure, to change the minds and hearts to stop the "stigma".

    I would not consider carrying a rifle around at this time to be "patient pressure" vs politics, and therefor, the backlash to the smaller issue,and far more understood right of handgun OC will be greater. I don't see how it can help at this time.

    Is it right? No. But it is reality. A reality that is changing in the favor of freedom and liberty.

    My previous post was intended to stir a serious consideration to how that might be brought about more quickly and fairly.

    Just a thought


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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Let me just say this.. Ive come to the conclusion,along with.. mainly half of my office.. that If someone is going to open carry - Then you need to expect trouble. okay? It's not as if the police are just inviting you to show off a pistol. If you want to OC. then OC. But don't be like this guy -
    I still dont understand the statement you made about expecting trouble. Is it the general consensus of your office that I should expect trouble, orare youexpecting troublewhen I open carry? I really want to understand where you are coming from here. It sounds like somenegative interactions with the OC public. If this is not the case please explain this perceived negative attitude toward OC.

    -Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    I want to know what "office" you work for. I'm in Oly and would like to know what kind of crap I can expect from your "office" if I'm carrying, concealed or otherwise.

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    Wow, that was mature. Midol huh? So you have a problem with women too?

    Let me just say this.. Ive come to the conclusion,along with.. mainly half of my office.. that If someone is going to open carry - Then you need to expect trouble
    I would say if one of us has a problem with an attitude it would be you. I know a few deputies and officers in the area, none of them have quite the attitude that you display here. Considering your last comment though, I can see why you cling to your anonymity.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    phil teters wrote:
    Unless you're coming at me with a fire arm..then expect a couple of people to have an issue. If you don't get hoosed down with OC, or a taser first !
    So you believe that direction of travel + proximity + lawfull carry of a firearm is grounds for you to use a tazer and pepper spray.

    Gee, that's kinda funny. Totally wrong, but funny.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    NavyLT wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    phil teters wrote:
    ...many agencies have policies that if they resopnd..they HAVE to make contact...**
    Would that not be an unlawful order if no crime has been committed? I believe they have a duty to ignore all unlawful orders even if they are written in policy.
    There's really nothing wrong with making contact, so long as the officer accepts "Have a nice day, officer" in response to their "contact."
    OK, you got me on that one.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    phil teters wrote:
    If a subject advances toward me with a 'Brandished' , or 'Improperly' carried firearm, It will raise some alarm, yes.
    That's now what you said.

    And this forum never advocates the ILLEGAL carry of firearms, or breaking the law... i.e. brandishing a firearm. The legal and lawfulcarry of a firearm does not, to a reasonable person, warrant alarm -- as established by RCWs + caselaw.

    Excellent red herring redirect attempt, utter fail, but good try.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    phil teters wrote:
    Dave, Norman..





    -You won't catch me retracting my words. I say what I mean. Like you, I speak my mind. If a subject advances toward me with a 'Brandished' , or 'Improperly' carried firearm, It will raise some alarm, yes. I would opt for a less lethal munition, before I was to put the subject down using level 4, Or deadly force (referance : WACJTC use of force cont.) He would be lucky to even be warned about a level 2 retaliation. If it was properly carried, ie. secured in a holster, There would be no issue-what so ever.



    You may think you're the alpha-male for attacking my origional post with such opinions as 'He's trolling, he's working for brady'. And so on - I am not, And I am not.



    If you skip up to the origional post. I titled it 'Just a though' Not 'This is a fact, so start freaking out'



    Alot of you - 'Grown men' ; Act like babies bitching because mommy is trying to take away your bottle. Eventually it will be time to come to terms with what the LE Offices don't care about - A few of them, being your 2nd Amm. Rights.



    I on the other hand. Do not enforce the law. I do however work for a private agency ,with the athority to make arrests as we deem fit. I couldnt ,possible care ANY less about people freaking out about Open carry. My statement is that YOU GUYS. Not me, because I don't go there. Need to let Starbucks, And the Brady bunch breath a little. They obviously feel trapped in a corner , Which is why they are trying to reach out. I personally Hate the idea of someone telling me I cant carry a firearm. I carry, anywhere, and everywhere I NEED to . in details with my duties while working. When Not working, I carry where legal. I do NOT hide mehind my badge - and I never will. It's something Ive earned.. Not something there for the taking, Like my civil and constitutional rights.



    So don't for one second throw me into the pig headed, selfish, closed-minded LEO case-file. That's not me. Im just sayin' what's wrong with letting things die down befor you're out there trying to gang up on the city council, or city officials while protesting with your ar-15s, or your Russian SKS's. Not to say that it's NOT helping. Im sure it's making an impact. But with an outlook like that.. Is it a positive one?
    ROFLMAO. Man, that is one funny post.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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