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Thread: My first "bad" run-in while open carrying

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    I was in Home Depot today buying a small propne torch and some cutoff wheels. standing in the isle, i was BSing with a co-worker who is layed off with me as well. guess who comes up beside me? an off-duty state police officer, asking me if i was a cop, because of my pistol that i just so happened to be carrying openly. i could tell he was SP just by the way he looked and acted. i told him i was not, just a citizen exercising my right to open carry. boy did he get pissed! he ranted and raved about how my permit was for conceal only, and i could very easily be arrested, and on and on. i told him that i had paperwork in my truck about how i can legaly open carry, and he said go get it. paperwork in hand, i proceed to tell him that CT is an open carry state, and i showed him where it said this, direct from the CT website. he didnt even look at it. then he said that if someone got alarmed with seeing my pistol, in my holster by the way, they could call, and i would be arrested for breach of peace. i then showed him paperwork from the ccdl website that said that if open carrying, and it is in the holster, it is not considered breach of peace. again, he didnt look at that. just continued to rant and rave. i told him im not going to get into a ******* contest in the middle of HD, so i untucked my shirt and we went on our ways.

    as a side note, i just happened to notice that his eyes were all bloodshot for some reason, and he did mention that he was a state trooper. unfortunatly, i thought i should have asked for his name after i left. yet another uniformed LEO, swarn to protect us. from what? our rights?



    Ken

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    its seen liked no LEO give **** about the right on open carrier law..the samething happen to me in mass andd ufff boy i thoughi was goin to end up in jail...

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    Sure his eyes weren't glazed? he might have OD'd on donuts.

    Good for you for standing your ground, obviously if he thought he could really jam you up he'd have called for help.

    It's at a time like this that voice recording would be very handy to have running.

    If he said he could arrest your for breach of peace you could have responded and I could turn around and sue you personally in federal court for violating my civil rights.

    Best idea was what you did, not get into a ******* match in HD. but he walked away with a minor victory over you (untucking) but at the end of the day you did what you had to do.

    Carry on!

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    You could always ask such a cop to visit Pennsylvania, where people open carry without giving a rat's ass.

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    Has anyone had any issues with on-duty police officers? If so, how did it go?

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    I would not even acknowledge them and continue on my way...I am not going to argue at all over my human right to self defense....If someone is just curious I will most certainly talk to them...but someone who just wants to start something will get no attention from me...

    As far as on-duty police I would give them my permit/DL if they asked and thats it..again..I will not argue about it..I am doing nothing illegal..

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    It is my personal belief the correct thing to do would have been calling the (local) police and telling them a person who is representing themselves as an officer is harassing you.

    Take the issue and turn it around. After all, there was no alarm or any incident before he decided to interfere.

    Also: Please stop mocking law enforcement. They are generally good people and do not deserve ridicule over the misinformed actions of one (possible) police officer. Lets try and keep it classy. I am not comfortable with the way we are representing ourselves in this thread.
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    good job ken for standing your ground. i am glad you didnt get intimidated.

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    GoldCoaster wrote:
    Sure his eyes weren't glazed? he might have OD'd on donuts.
    Good for you for standing your ground, obviously if he thought he could really jam you up he'd have called for help.

    It's at a time like this that voice recording would be very handy to have running.

    If he said he could arrest your for breach of peace you could have responded and I could turn around and sue you personally in federal court for violating my civil rights.

    Best idea was what you did, not get into a ******* match in HD. but he walked away with a minor victory over you (untucking) but at the end of the day you did what you had to do.

    Carry on!
    no, not glazed. bloodshot. very badly. in my mind, and only mine, i think something/someonewas not on the straight and narrow


    Ken

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    That is a pretty serious accusation to level against anyone, especially an officer of the law.

    Has it occurred to you that people get 'bloodshot' eyes for many things, not just drugs? For instance, not enough sleep, allergies, sheet rock dust (you said he was at Home Depot, right?), etc.

    It seems you are spending a lot of time trying to string this 'possible' officer up, but you did not even take the time to get his name and badge number (which is your right).

    I am on your side and believe he was in the wrong, but we don't know for sure he was an officer, and bloodshot eyes are certainly not an indicator for anything. My eyes are bloodshot all the time and I never touch narcotics. I am a victim of seasonal allergies.
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    you make a very valid point Rich. to me, it was the way he was acting, moving, his whole body, it just seemed weird. but you could be right, they could have been bloodshotfrom legal reasons

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    shortcircut65 wrote:
    they could have been bloodshot¬*from legal reasons
    It also might not have been a LEO to begin with.
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    Rich B wrote:
    shortcircut65 wrote:
    they could have been bloodshotfrom legal reasons
    It also might not have been a LEO to begin with.
    If he were a real LEO that believed that what you were doing was illegal it would have been a different encounter I'd think.

    Be aware I guess.

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    Sounds like you did right...hopefully he'll read up on the subject and react differnent the next time.

    Perhaps he'll bring it up with his LE counterparts....and just maybe....it will begin to click that what they've believed for so long may not be true.

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    shortcircut65 wrote:
    I was in Home Depot today buying a small propne torch and some cutoff wheels.¬* standing in the isle, i was BSing with a co-worker who is layed off with me as well.¬* guess who comes up beside me?¬* an off-duty state police officer, asking me if i was a cop, because of my pistol that i just so happened to be carrying openly.¬* i could tell he was SP just by the way he looked and acted.¬* i told him i was not, just a citizen exercising my right to open carry.¬* boy did he get pissed!¬* he ranted and raved about how my permit was for conceal only, and i could very easily be arrested, and on and on.¬* i told him that i had paperwork in my truck about how i can legaly open carry, and he said go get it.¬* paperwork in hand, i proceed to tell him that CT is an open carry state, and i showed him where it said this, direct from the CT website.¬* he didnt even look at it.¬* then he said that if someone got alarmed with seeing my pistol, in my holster by the way, they could call, and i would be arrested for breach of peace.¬* i then showed him paperwork from the ccdl website that said that if open carrying, and it is in the holster, it is not considered breach of peace.¬* again, he didnt look at that.¬* just continued to rant and rave.¬* i told him im not going to get into a ******* contest in the middle of HD, so i untucked my shirt and we went on our ways.

    as a side note, i just happened to notice that his eyes were all bloodshot for some reason, and he did mention that he was a state trooper.¬* unfortunatly, i thought i should have asked for his name after i left.¬* yet another uniformed LEO, swarn to protect us.¬* from what?¬* our rights?

    ¬*

    Ken
    Ken (or others)
    I've been away from this site for several months and am very interested in what Ken says above. I am a 42 year old father of 2 little girls and would like to open carry. However, I am more concerned about losing my pistol permit. Mainly because if it gets pulled, I will lose my ability to legally protect my girls to the fullest extent possible.

    Above you cite several precedents/intrepretations/laws. Last I knew it was really a crap shoot. i.e. you might get arrested, charges most likely dropped, then you get a letter pulling your permit, then you wait a year to go before the board of firearms examiners and usually get it back.

    Have things changed?

    What is this "paperwork in hand, i proceed to tell him that CT is an open carry state, and i showed him where it said this, direct from the CT website." -please direct me to a link

    and this:
    "i then showed him paperwork from the ccdl website that said that if open carrying, and it is in the holster, it is not considered breach of peace."

    Thanks,

    Don
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    Rich B wrote:
    It is my personal belief the correct thing to do would have been calling the (local) police and telling them a person who is representing themselves as an officer is harassing you.

    Take the issue and turn it around. After all, there was no alarm or any incident before he decided to interfere.

    Also: Please stop mocking law enforcement. They are generally good people and do not deserve ridicule over the misinformed actions of one (possible) police officer. Lets try and keep it classy. I am not comfortable with the way we are representing ourselves in this thread.
    Rich,
    I agree with your assesment of LEOs and particularly how we need to comport ourselves on this site. However, I have found that most LEOs are ignorant of the law with respect to Open Carry.
    Mainly because in CT the old "if someone sees you carrying you could be arrested for breech of peace" was spoken like gospel for the last 30 years up until about 2 years ago.

    Ignorance is not a permanent condition. Perhaps if this LEO was not such a hothead, it might have become a teachable moment.

    Don
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    dcmdon wrote:
    However, I have found that most LEOs are ignorant of the law with respect to Open Carry.
    That might be the case, but we will win no one over with abusive zealotry.

    Perhaps if this LEO was not such a hothead, it might have become a teachable moment.
    You assume two things: He was a LEO and he was a hothead. What do you know that we do not?
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    Rich B wrote:
    dcmdon wrote:
    However, I have found that most LEOs are ignorant of the law with respect to Open Carry.
    That might be the case, but we will win no one over with abusive zealotry.

    Perhaps if this LEO was not such a hothead, it might have become a teachable moment.
    You assume two things: He was a LEO and he was a hothead. What do you know that we do not?
    Rich B - are you saying that the OP'S initial post displayed abusive zealotry on his part? On the contrary, it sounds like he politely stood his ground and backed up his position with documentation.

    re me assuming the person who approached the OP was a LEO, the OP stated he believed that to be so right in his post. Although, I do get your point, it was not proven; the man never showed a badge.

    Either way, if we take the OP at his word, the other person was definitely a hothead. I don't know why the OP even went and

    Are you a LEO? If so, I would be interested in your opinion as to whether most realize there is no statute banning open carry. I certainly don't hold this misconception against LEOs. Most were probably told that citizens must carry concealed when they were trained. I know that I was told that I must carry concealed when I took my pistol permit course 21 years ago.

    I also know that I was again told that citizens must carry concealed when I took the class to become a NRA Pistol instructor about 5 years ago.

    Ignorant is not the same as stupid. There is no curing stupid. Enlightenment and/or training cures ignorance.

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    dcmdon wrote:
    Rich B - are you saying that the OP'S initial post displayed abusive zealotry on his part?¬*
    I made no reference to the OP. I don't agree with the tone of the OP, but I do understand the reaction and emotion involved. I was referring to the posts that followed it though.

    re me assuming the person who approached the OP was a LEO, he stated he believed that to be so right in his post.¬* Although, I do get your point, it was not proven.¬*
    Not only was it not proven, there is no evidence at all and is actually a bit suspect.

    Either way, if we take the OP at his word, the other person was definitely a hothead.¬*
    I have no reason to take either party at their word, but from the OP's post I think it is safe to assume that there were charged emotions and skewing of the story on both sides. You could easily look at it as the aggressor was simply trying to help the OP and was assuming the OP didn't know better.

    Are you a LEO?¬*
    No.

    Most were probably told that citizens must carry concealed¬* when they were trained.¬*
    To the contrary, the Goldberg case is showing us that the police are fully aware of the law being silent on open carry.

    I know that I was told that I must carry concealed when I took my pistol permit course 21 years ago.
    But that reflects far more poorly on our own community than it does on anyone else.

    I also know that I was again told that citizens must carry concealed when I took the class to become a NRA Pistol instructor about 5 years ago.¬*
    Start naming names if this is true. These people need to be educated in a hurry by the CCDL.

    Ignorant is not the same as stupid.¬* There is no curing stupid.¬* Enlightenment and/or training cures ignorance.¬*
    I don't disagree, but this is not an issue at hand, no one is arguing the opposite.
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    You make great points.

    Some thoughts. My kids need my time so I'm not going to go down item by item.

    Are you saying that Goldberg local LEOs have not been challenging citizens open carrying???? I did not know that to be true. But if it is, I will be happy to be wrong. Please elaborate.

    I was told that I needed to carry concealed by my original instructor 21 yrs ago, I'll give first inital and last name T. Coyne of Clinton, CT. and George E of Colchester when I took my instructor course.

    The world was very different back then. Since then we've been able to more aggressively assert our rights. I am very happy about these developments.

    Gotta run. Thanks for the discourse.
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    dcmdon wrote:
    Are you saying that Goldberg local LEOs have not been challenging citizens open carrying????¬*
    I have no idea what you are trying to ask here.
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    Rich B wrote:
    dcmdon wrote:
    Are you saying that Goldberg local LEOs have not been challenging citizens open carrying????
    I have no idea what you are trying to ask here.
    I think the question is if any people OCing have been confronted by LEOs since the Goldberg incident,

    As for the answer, I'll leave it for that person to hopefully respond, but I recall someone on this board making the claim that no one has been arrested in CT for OC since the Goldberg incident.

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    Exactly, thanks.
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  24. #24
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    red eyes? from working hard? naaah, he hit the hookah in the evidence room on the way out of work!

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    Thats not always the case. My eyes are going to be a mess tomorrow because after I put my kids to bed I worked on the house. Then went downstairs to do some reloading till 1:00 am.

    Now I'm up in the kitchen surfing for 10 min efore going to bed. btw, the 6 month old should be up in an hour. ha. sleep. Nah. red eyes. yeah.
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