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Thread: delayed on handgun purchase

  1. #1
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    this is the third time i gotten delayed on a handgun purchase. Does anyone else have this same problem?!?!?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Major delays being reported in Virginia - sometimes 5 hours or more.

    It is hurting the vendors at the shows. Those not approved until after closing, would have to travel to get their guns or have them shipped - consequentially, canceled sales. Some vendors asking for a processing fee up front.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    yeah but im buying this from a dealer in slidell. Yall have a waiting time. See we have three business days till they make a final choice. if they dont and the three business days are up we can go and get it. But everytime i get a gun they are always delaying me. Im sick of this .

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    tntorqu wrote:
    yeah but im buying this from a dealer in slidell. Yall have a waiting time. See we have three business days till they make a final choice. if they dont and the three business days are up we can go and get it. But everytime i get a gun they are always delaying me. Im sick of this .
    To what waiting time do you refer.

    Normally I would fill out the papers and wait 30 - 40 minutes at most and then take my new toy home.

    How does the 3 days thing work? Take that long to get approval and when no approval you get it by default? Cornfuzing.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    "Normally I would fill out the papers and wait 30 - 40 minutes at most and then take my new toy home. "
    This is Normal here. I waited about 15 minutes for the FFL check, door to door took me about 30 minutes, but I didn't spend anytime shopping.



    "How does the 3 days thing work? Take that long to get approval and when no approval you get it by default? "
    Something like that.
    I think the FFL check comes back one of 3 ways: approved, delay, or denied. If you get denied, you can find out why and appeal it (or change any incorrect info on your record).
    If you get delayed, I think it's a 3 day wait, then you go back to the same dealer and get your new tool (Rule #3: a gun its not a toy, unless you are from Richmond, Va )

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    Image of a form 4473. On page 3 is the response from the NICS check. This is standard in all 50 states, right? It's just that some states have tougher rules, or impose a delay even if the NICS check comes back approved?


    http://www.instapunk.com/archives/BATF_Form_4473d.html

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Slidell Jim wrote:
    a gun its not a toy, unless you are from Richmond, Va )
    The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys - never heard that, right?

    Then there is T-O-Y = tools of yeomen.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeoman

    Whew, that was close -you almost got me.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    tnt - don't buy at stores. Check out the gun classifieds at places like louisianasportsman.com and buy from a private party in the local area. No taxes, no records, no background checks - just the way it should be.

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    Out of all the guns I have bought, I have only been delayed one time. Most of the time, I fill out form 4473 and they call it in and it is approved instantly. The one time I was delayed, the girl called back and admitted that it shouldn't have been delayed, but she didn't realize that the so called "flag" was just my hit in NCIC as being law enforcement. This doesn't cause me to get approved any quicker, but did cause about a 5 minute delay one time.



    tntorqu,

    If you keep getting delays, it is because someone has the same name or similar nameas you that has a record.Or perhaps, if you havesomething on yourrecord that doesn't exclude you from buying a firearm, it may just slow you down because theperson on the phoneat the fbi/atf has to get approval from a supervisor.

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    Pro OC Cop wrote:
    Out of all the guns I have bought, I have only been delayed one time. Most of the time, I fill out form 4473 and they call it in and it is approved instantly. The one time I was delayed, the girl called back and admitted that it shouldn't have been delayed, but she didn't realize that the so called "flag" was just my hit in NCIC as being law enforcement. This doesn't cause me to get approved any quicker, but did cause about a 5 minute delay one time.
    And umbrellas don't cause you to keep your head dry but they do help.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Pro OC Cop wrote:
    Out of all the guns I have bought, I have only been delayed one time. Most of the time, I fill out form 4473 and they call it in and it is approved instantly. The one time I was delayed, the girl called back and admitted that it shouldn't have been delayed, but she didn't realize that the so called "flag" was just my hit in NCIC as being law enforcement. This doesn't cause me to get approved any quicker, but did cause about a 5 minute delay one time.
    And umbrellas don't cause you to keep your head dry but they do help.

    Yata hey
    Also the fact that I have never had anything on my record, before or after I became involved with Law Enforcement. Or the fact that I have a very unique name.

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    Pro OC Cop wrote:
    Or the fact that I have a very unique name.
    Well i have a very unique last name. Its Torquati. I, my mom and my wife are the only three in louisiana that has that last name. But im going to fill out that form 4473 and get an appeal. The only thing that was on my record was when my twin brother put me in jail and the charges was dropped.

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    Pro OC Cop wrote:
    tntorqu,

    If you keep getting delays, it is because someone has the same name or similar nameas you that has a record.Or perhaps, if you havesomething on yourrecord that doesn't exclude you from buying a firearm, it may just slow you down because theperson on the phoneat the fbi/atf has to get approval from a supervisor.
    But does the FBI/ATF are supposed to call back or they just want you to wait out the three business days?????

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    tntorqu wrote:
    Pro OC Cop wrote:
    tntorqu,

    If you keep getting delays, it is because someone has the same name or similar nameas you that has a record.Or perhaps, if you havesomething on yourrecord that doesn't exclude you from buying a firearm, it may just slow you down because theperson on the phoneat the fbi/atf has to get approval from a supervisor.
    But does the FBI/ATF are supposed to call back or they just want you to wait out the three business days?????
    In the case of a "delay", they might call back. If they don't, and three full business days have lapsed, the dealer may proceed. Per ATF-think, that means if you get delayed on Monday, you can pick the gun up on Friday unless the dealer gets a "denied" in the meantime. If the "delay" occurs on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, it will be Thursday before you pick the gun up (three full business days being Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday).

    Or, they might call back two minutes or two days later with a "proceed".

    Note: FBI runs NICS, but ATF controls the FFLs who use it, so the dealers have to abide by ATF rulings as well as FBI/NICS rules.

    Also, some states serve as their own "point of contact" for some or all NICS checks. Louisiana is not one of those states: all NICS checks, both for handguns and long guns, go through the FBI's NICS. Some states' licenses are an "ATF-qualified alternate permit"; Texas, Arkansas and Mississippi licensees don't even have to go through NICS; they just fill out the 4473, show their license, and the deal is automatically approved.

    Note: I'm not an advocate for licensing or NICS, just pointing out the facts.

    Cites:
    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm
    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/participation_map.htm
    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics.htm


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    I just found out this afternoon that an aquaintance <sp?> of mine was delayed on a handgun at Academy. I am making an attempt to contact him directly for the real scoop, but he hadn't called me back. I haven't gotten a chance to talk to him directly, but the story I was told is that he got the delay in January and still hasn't been cleared. I am sure I missed some specific info due to it being a 2nd hand story. He has apparently had fingerprints taken in the past few weeks by the SPD to submit to the FBI and is still waiting on an outcome.

    The guy that told me about it was also under the impression that a "delay" only meant a couple of days, so our mutual friend must have gotten a "denied" and pressed the issue to see why. He is a 60 something guy, lived in Slidell and NO all his life and worked 30+ years for the phone company. I think they have a "same name" issue and they wanted further information (fingerprints) to clear it up.



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    Slidell jim. I went to academy today to get a blackhawk holster for my glock 17. I asked them about that. They dont release the gun until the ATF/FBI calls them back if it takes up to thirty days they still have to hold their gun. COMPANY POLICY!!!!!!

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    Have you been delayed or denied a firearm transfer?
    Would you like to obtain a copy of your FBI 'Rap Sheet'?

    Read this primer to learn what to do!

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    Louisiana Carry wrote:
    Have you been delayed or denied a firearm transfer?
    Would you like to obtain a copy of your FBI 'Rap Sheet'?

    Read this primer to learn what to do!
    Good source information - thanks.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Ok I got in touch with Thumper this evening, this is the scoop.... It did have to do with Academy and their 30 day policy and also they had a sale running on a specific S&W 40 for $299, and a little to do with my friends ignorance of the "NICS system" (thanks Fed's).

    My friend saw the sale price and wanted a specific gun from Academy. He said the check came back as denied, so he went home to wait for a reply. Many weeks later (I don't know why), when he got back to the Academy, they told him it had been more than 30 days and they needed to run the check from the beginning. After the second check comes back delay, he is informed their company policy is "not to proceed after the 3 day wait, until the NICS check has come back as proceed and they will wait up to 30 days for a reply from NICS, then they throw out the results and start over if the customer wants to try again". IMHO this would drive away business for most gun shops/ brokers , but maybe Academy is big enough to afford to error on the safe side than to make that $$$.

    Thumper asked for a manager, who still agreed to honor the sale price, if he could get a 'proceed' cleared from the check and directed him to the NICS HANDBOOK they had at the store. This is when the real education on "the system" began.

    Thumper has had several conversations by phone to the NICS/FBI/ATF or whoever "THEY" are. "They" told him that they couldn't give him his "rap sheet" on a delay, only a DENY. They also explained to him that he could just wait the 3 days and go back to the broker (oh just a little corporate policy problem there). They also explained that he could obtain a "federal ID" of sorts that would prevent this from happening again. He has gotten written word back from "THEM" that they have received his submitted fingerprints and are "working on it"

    Well what do ya think of that!

  20. #20
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    Slidell Jim wrote:
    Ok I got in touch with Thumper this evening, this is the scoop.... It did have to do with Academy and their 30 day policy and also they had a sale running on a specific S&W 40 for $299, and a little to do with my friends ignorance of the "NICS system" (thanks Fed's).

    My friend saw the sale price and wanted a specific gun from Academy. He said the check came back as denied, so he went home to wait for a reply. Many weeks later (I don't know why), when he got back to the Academy, they told him it had been more than 30 days and they needed to run the check from the beginning. After the second check comes back delay, he is informed their company policy is "not to proceed after the 3 day wait, until the NICS check has come back as proceed and they will wait up to 30 days for a reply from NICS, then they throw out the results and start over if the customer wants to try again". IMHO this would drive away business for most gun shops/ brokers , but maybe Academy is big enough to afford to error on the safe side than to make that $$$.

    Thumper asked for a manager, who still agreed to honor the sale price, if he could get a 'proceed' cleared from the check and directed him to the NICS HANDBOOK they had at the store. This is when the real education on "the system" began.

    Thumper has had several conversations by phone to the NICS/FBI/ATF or whoever "THEY" are. "They" told him that they couldn't give him his "rap sheet" on a delay, only a DENY. They also explained to him that he could just wait the 3 days and go back to the broker (oh just a little corporate policy problem there). They also explained that he could obtain a "federal ID" of sorts that would prevent this from happening again. He has gotten written word back from "THEM" that they have received his submitted fingerprints and are "working on it"

    Well what do ya think of that!
    That is some serious Bulls**t. They keep delaying us who wants to buy a gun and trying to keep america alive and they want us to wait out for three days. I'm already appealing my delay. Yeah i was arrested back in 2006 because of my brother but my brother dropped the charges. They should of already seen that. I just didnt have the money to get it expunged. I never heard of the federal ID. But you will have to wait three to four weeks to hear word from them back. Im sure your friend thumper was seriously pi**ed about what all was going on. But Slidell jim keep us updated about whats going on with your friend.

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    tntorqu wrote:
    this is the third time i gotten delayed on a handgun purchase. Does anyone else have this same problem?!?!?
    tntorqu, there is a difference between a delay that comes back "proceed" and one that never comes back. Only you can find out what is delaying you, and it must be done by written request. Have the FFL give you the NTN# from the last delay, and refer to it when you inquire to the ATF.

    When a NCIC check is initiated, an analyst looks at a computer screen and makes a determination by whathe/she sees. The computer has "flags" to warn analysts of potential problems with a buyer's record. When it is "flagged", or a record comes up, they must "delay" the buyer untill they can ascertain whether the person is prohibited or not. That can take time.

    Another fact to remember isbefore startof each business day, the system must "dump" all the data from the previous day. How that affects you is that each time you go to buy a gun, they have to start over making sure you are OK.

    There is a fix for this. It's called the VAF, or Voluntary Appeal File. The purpose of this is to have you allow them to keep your data at hand. They will issue you a UPIN, a Unique Personal Id Number. That UPIN will be listed on the 4473 next to your SSN, for the clerk to give to NCIC. A proceed can come back immediately when everything is done right.

    Ask your dealer for the VAF packet, he can get one for you.

    Good luck.



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    tntorqu wrote:
    Slidell jim. I went to academy today to get a blackhawk holster for my glock 17. I asked them about that. They dont release the gun until the ATF/FBI calls them back if it takes up to thirty days they still have to hold their gun. COMPANY POLICY!!!!!!
    the law says if NICS does NOT call back within (3) days , not counting weekends and holidays,then the gun can be tranfered and the seller marks the 4473 "resolution given" NICS does not have to call but they usually do, sometimes even befor the buyer leaves the store

    however some stores will call NICS to checkeven though they are not required to do so

    the store can set their own rules and this is to cover their a$$



    hope this helps

    a holder of FFL for over 30 yrs

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    Another fact to remember isbefore startof each business day, the system must "dump" all the data from the previous day. How that affects you is that each time you go to buy a gun, they have to start over making sure you are OK.


    you areright in some part the info is dumped

    once the 4473is signed and dated by the seller it is done nothing can be added to it



    in order to buy another gun the next day or even the same day a new nics must be done

    BTW the aproval is good for 30 days i do not know if the same number can be used the next day or not

  24. #24
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    okay guys thank you for all of the inputs that was here. I will definately turn in that paper with the fingerprints. I gotten my glock 17 and it was definately worth the wait. :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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