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Thread: Race

  1. #1
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    I was listening to public radio this afternoon here in SD. The 'Head of Intelligence' for the Southern Poverty Law Center was discussing changes in the demographics and behavior of hate groups since the election and in recent months. His idea, derived in part from studying social networking and forum sites, was that typical neo-nazi, anti-semetic, and separatist groups were becoming more brazen and more organized. The radio station being an NPR affiliate, he then attributed this increased outspokenness to aggressive or violent-sounding rhetoric recently spoken by the likes of Glenn Beck, leaders of the Tea Party movement, etc.

    The segment was mainly about race and racism, but towards the end he mentioned pro-2A groups and an upcoming 2A march in D.C. His inference was that 2A groups and racists groups go together like lemon and lime. While he did not mention OCDO, the OC movement, or Starbucks, I believe he implied that ANY pro-gun group would necessarily be subtlety or overtly racists or would appeal strongly to those who were racist.

    This has not been my experience with OCDO or the OC movement. I am black, so it is an issue that I pay particular attention to. It is particularly heartening to see the diversity of not only race, but also gender and age, at the OC events that have been shown on news shows in recent months.

    So how about it: are there many OCers out there who are non-white?
    What has been your experience with the OC movement or OCDO?
    Have you ever felt excluded or unwanted at OC events?

    Note that the question I'm not asking is if it is more difficult in practice to OC if one is nonwhite.

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    Does it matter?

    I say no. But, then, I know that race is irrelevant.

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    eye95 wrote:
    Does it matter?

    I say no. But, then, I know that race is irrelevant.
    Does what matter? Race, racism, diversity in the OC movement?
    Race is and should be irrelevant in the eyes of the law, ideally. Sometimes it actually is. But race is very relevant in American society and culture.

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    petrophase wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Does it matter?

    I say no. But, then, I know that race is irrelevant.
    Does what matter? Race, racism, diversity in the OC movement?
    Race is and should be irrelevant in the eyes of the law, ideally. Sometimes it actually is. But race is very relevant in American society and culture.
    I refuse to let race matter to me. You can let it matter to you. Others can let it matter to them. That is your and their choice. I just find it reprehensible to choose to let it matter.

    Have fun with your discussion. I just wanted to make sure someone expressed this view of race.

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    I tend to ignore these racists outbursts as nothing to it. Not when racism is blatent.

    Except the black caucus marched with nary a white in it's ranks. NOT one at all.

    Wellllll....it shows the black caucus is RACISTS!Not whites.

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    To begin with, I agree that race should NOT be an issue but recognize that it still frequently does have a lot of impact on society. I have been amazed at the amount of blame aimed at me for the last two years since I started both OCing and getting politically active. It seems both activities have brought me into the column of 'extreme right wing hate mongering racist christian white terrorist'.. pick any combination of these descriptives.. usually from progressives or naive left wing enthusiasts.

    I have been to OC gatherings, tea party events and other conservative or constructionist gatherings and have to say I have seen very, very little racism or hatred in any of them! Mostly anger.. but one can be angry without being hateful or derogatory.

    These groups usually have quite a diverse group in age, race and economic status. The affluent were rubbing elbows with poverty level as well as older couples talking to college students of the hippyish variety.. talk about breaking out of character.. nobody was following any demographic rules!

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    JBURGII wrote:
    To begin with, I agree that race should NOT be an issue but recognize that it still frequently does have a lot of impact on society. I have been amazed at the amount of blame aimed at me for the last two years since I started both OCing and getting politically active. It seems both activities have brought me into the column of 'extreme right wing hate mongering racist christian white terrorist'.. pick any combination of these descriptives.. usually from progressives or naive left wing enthusiasts.

    I have been to OC gatherings, tea party events and other conservative or constructionist gatherings and have to say I have seen very, very little racism or hatred in any of them! Mostly anger.. but one can be angry without being hateful or derogatory.

    These groups usually have quite a diverse group in age, race and economic status. The affluent were rubbing elbows with poverty level as well as older couples talking to college students of the hippyish variety.. talk about breaking out of character.. nobody was following any demographic rules!
    This relates exactly to the radio program that I mentioned above. To me it seems like an obvious and unfounded ad hominum attack (the comments during the radio segment, not JBURGII's comments) designed to prevent nonwhites from considering their 2A rights by forming a negative association, while simultaneously demonizing pro-2A whites.

    Also, I would reiterate that my experience with the OC movement has been pleasantly diverse and decidedly non-racist.

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    Ehhh? The republicans marched with no democrats!!!!

    Eh. I'm not racist, I'm too much of a mutt to be. I'd hate myself.

    TheMrMitch wrote:

    I tend to ignore these racists outbursts as nothing to it. Not when racism is blatent.

    Except the black caucus marched with nary a white in it's ranks. NOT one at all.

    Wellllll....it shows the black caucus is RACISTS!Not whites.

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    I generally agree with the SPLG, however, they are way wrong here. Unfortunately, they are not educated with what the "OpenCarry" movement is, they think that it has something to do with the militia movement. The founders of the OCDO board have specifically kept those people off and had talks (from my understanding) with those who make those proposals.

    I think someone needs to point that out. Hmmmph?

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    Pace wrote:
    I generally agree with the SPLG, however, they are way wrong here. Unfortunately, they are not educated with what the "OpenCarry" movement is, they think that it has something to do with the militia movement. The founders of the OCDO board have specifically kept those people off and had talks (from my understanding) with those who make those proposals.

    I think someone needs to point that out. Hmmmph?
    That is an excellent point and my understanding as well. I wish that there had been someone there to make it during that radio segment.

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    http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/

    Kenn Blanchard is the awesome.

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    That was an interesting link. Is that guy legit? If so, that's great! The only thing that threw me was his Maryland address. Being from Maryland I can't believe that any firearms enthusiast would want to stay there.

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    Yard Sale wrote:
    --A one-post wonder does not represent the attitude of OCDO membership.

    --I don't see any racism in the third link. Maybe I missed it. Or maybe you are someone who sees people who refer to those who break the law by entering the country illegally and staying in the country illegally as "illegal aliens" as being racist. If that is the case, your accusation is irrational.

    --The second link does contain an uncalled-for racial epithet written by someone with a few dozen posts. So, I guess ya got us. We are a bunch of racists. :shock:

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    Illegal aliens are often used as an excuse for everyone else issues. Ie, they aren't a "serious" problem in this country, compared to many other things. Additionally, its a topic of white supremacists quite often.

    All movements get the fringe elements. Armed movements almost always do because we are advocating that everyone be allowed to bear arms, and of course the neo-nazi and militia movement will attempt to attach itself.

    Same reason the Tea Party movement has been taken over by nutcases.

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    Actually race is not an issue here on OCDO, nor is race an issue when our 2A rights are concerned. Every American regardless of race or heritage has the right to keep & bear arms. There are I am sure a bunch of Black members here along with people of Mexican decent, Asian decent, etc. I once worked at a gun store, I know that all demographics own guns, heck I sold them their weapons.

    Race is only an issue with the Lib, anti gun types. I always find it funny when they are talking about hate groups, they mention neo nazi's, but not the Mexican separatist groups or the new Black Panthers, they don't exist, just white hate groups.It goes to show us all how ignorant the libs are when they talk about hate groups & mention pro gun organization in the same sentence. Apples & watermelons The Libs are really clueless. They are looking for a solution when no problem exists.

    I am racist, but only when we are talking about Liberals & Illegals of what every ethnicity But I strongly disagree with Pace, Illegals are a HUGE problem here in the US....Way too many of them here in Green Bay area alone.......specially when we are talking 20 Million plus of them in America, they all came here illegally so they should all be sent packing. They all need to go, along with their anchor babies. The TEA PARTY movement has been taken over by ANGRY AMERICANS , not nutcases, Pace you really need to watch something other than MSNBC, it's controlled by the Liberal media.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    "controlled by liberal media" "tea party = angry americans"

    Sounds like Glock is another Sheep. Baaaaahhh.....

    First of all Glock, I'm a Libertarian, I watch Fox, CNN, MSNBC and make my own decisions.

    The problem I have with the Tea Party is that they complaint about health care and big government, but if you ask them one-on-one what they want to do about other social programs that they are all on, they go "Don't take my welfare check!"

    I've been to Tea Party events at the start when they were independent, you had thinkers who actually believed in freedom. Now its been taken over by people with a political agenda and most of the people don't even know why they are there. When they are interviewed they have completely opposing thoughts, completely different viewpoints.

    Go ahead and ask most "tea party members" who think they are "Taxed Enough Already" and ask them if they will give up. What's even ridiculous is that most of the people at those events, are at the bottom tax bracket and pay no, or little taxes. They aren't working stiffs who are actually being taxed!

    1) Socialized Schools
    2) Socialized Transportation
    3) Their Social Security Check
    4) Their welfare checks

    And so on, and you'll find most of them speak out of both sides of their mouth. The tea party has nothing to do with cutting taxes but SHEEEPLE.

    Illegals being a problem? Unfortunately, if we didnt have cheap labor, you have any idea how much fruit and veggies would cost? Think about it. Since we have socialized min wage, the only way to get those jobs done is through illegal aliens. It sucks, but part of our growing socialized system here.





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    petrophase wrote:
    That was an interesting link. Is that guy legit? If so, that's great! The only thing that threw me was his Maryland address. Being from Maryland I can't believe that any firearms enthusiast would want to stay there.
    Kenn Blanchard is VERY legit.

    He has a weekly podcast, check it out sometime. And look him up online. Mr. Blanchard has a varied career that makes him certainly a qualified handler of guns but is also like me, a black man with a firm belief that every law-abiding citizen should be able to defend themselves with firearms in public and private.

    Are there many blacks carrying guns? Yes and this has been the caseever since Reconstruction, atleast. Are there many blacks carrying guns openly? Not to the point that you can consider the OC movement very diverse in the respect.


    I have a fear of someone freaking out and either getting me shot or arrested on some trumped up charges. I can't easily explain the fear, it may be unfounded but it sure as hell ain't easy to get rid of. I do carry, sometimes open and mostly concealed. I don't think it really matters how well I dress, at least that is part ofmy fear, but some of the laws of thisstate I'm in [NC]were created to keep me from having a gun in the first place. Sure, times have changed, but why are the laws still on the books?

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    Wow. The tea party movement "has been taken over by nutcases"? You associate the topic of illegal aliens with white supremacists? That is an ugly post, demeaning those disagree with you as white supremacists and nutcases.

    Way to build credibility. But, that's turning out to be par for the course.

    BTW, the illegal alien problem is quite "serious." It there are over 12 million illegal aliens in the country, as has been estimated, that is about one out of every 25 people. That's a pretty big problem.

    In any case, the point I was making, that is being obscured by your post, is that a post lamenting illegal aliens is not necessarily racist, as was being claimed by the poster to whom I was responding.

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    Pace wrote:
    "controlled by liberal media" "tea party = angry americans"

    Sounds like Glock is another Sheep. Baaaaahhh.....

    First of all Glock, I'm a Libertarian, I watch Fox, CNN, MSNBC and make my own decisions.

    The problem I have with the Tea Party is that they complaint about health care and big government, but if you ask them one-on-one what they want to do about other social programs that they are all on, they go "Don't take my welfare check!"

    I've been to Tea Party events at the start when they were independent, you had thinkers who actually believed in freedom. Now its been taken over by people with a political agenda and most of the people don't even know why they are there. When they are interviewed they have completely opposing thoughts, completely different viewpoints.

    Go ahead and ask most "tea party members" who think they are "Taxed Enough Already" and ask them if they will give up. What's even ridiculous is that most of the people at those events, are at the bottom tax bracket and pay no, or little taxes. They aren't working stiffs who are actually being taxed!

    1) Socialized Schools
    2) Socialized Transportation
    3) Their Social Security Check
    4) Their welfare checks

    And so on, and you'll find most of them speak out of both sides of their mouth. The tea party has nothing to do with cutting taxes but SHEEEPLE.
    You are so far of base, your not even within walking distance of the ball park...go figure:?

    Me a sheep ??? That's laughable do I need to remind everyone here how much Government kool aid you consume on a daily basis ???!? Sheeples are those, like you, that think everything is just fine. Me I am more of a.....ultra conservative that would LOVE to see the big RESET happen soon , sheeples like YOU PACE are so comatose that you will never wake up to reality, so keep sleeping.........but we won't go into that again, I wouldn't want "someone " reporting me to the Feds, like that PACE guy:what: was threatening to do awhile back, for speaking against his beloved Obama.

    Oh, Pace...by the way....I was just at a TEA PARTY, actually provided the PA system for it......Nothing but Blue / white collar Working class & Unemployed working class attending. Why are they out of work ?? not because they are lazy or not looking, but because the JOBS DON'T EXIST. Your Illegals took them, because they work for a lot less, because of NAFTA, CAFTA & other global free trade policies that have doomed the American people & because Corp America move their manufacturing base out of America...Americans demand a living wage , Chinese workers get paid what 10 bucks a day if they are lucky..

    Pace please go somewhere & UN BRAINWASH YOURSELF.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism.

    Gun control has ALWAYS been a means to disarm disfavored minorities so that they can be degraded by their attackers in physical safety.

    The last person to cite the Holocaust as a GOOD thing also criticized me for wearing an NRA ballcap.

    Scratch an anti-gunner, find a Klansman (or Nazi).
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Deanimator wrote:
    The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism.

    Gun control has ALWAYS been a means to disarm disfavored minorities so that they can be degraded by their attackers in physical safety.

    The last person to cite the Holocaust as a GOOD thing also criticized me for wearing an NRA ballcap.

    Scratch an anti-gunner, find a Klansman (or Nazi).
    wow
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    tekshogun wrote:
    petrophase wrote:
    That was an interesting link. Is that guy legit? If so, that's great! The only thing that threw me was his Maryland address. Being from Maryland I can't believe that any firearms enthusiast would want to stay there.

    Kenn Blanchard is VERY legit.

    He has a weekly podcast, check it out sometime. And look him up online. Mr. Blanchard has a varied career that makes him certainly a qualified handler of guns but is also like me, a black man with a firm belief that every law-abiding citizen should be able to defend themselves with firearms in public and private.

    Are there many blacks carrying guns? Yes and this has been the caseever since Reconstruction, atleast. Are there many blacks carrying guns openly? Not to the point that you can consider the OC movement very diverse in the respect.


    I have a fear of someone freaking out and either getting me shot or arrested on some trumped up charges. I can't easily explain the fear, it may be unfounded but it sure as hell ain't easy to get rid of. I do carry, sometimes open and mostly concealed. I don't think it really matters how well I dress, at least that is part ofmy fear, but some of the laws of thisstate I'm in [NC]were created to keep me from having a gun in the first place. Sure, times have changed, but why are the laws still on the books?
    Just a comment on this.

    We are struggling to organize a bit here in Idaho. In a state where we have a pretty pro-gun attitude and favorable legal environment, it is difficult to get many of our citizens, much less the low population of minorities, to see a need for making a more determined push to keep the envelope stetched back in the direction the Founding Fathers envisioned. Anyway, I would LOVE to see more citizens, be they black, brown, yellow, green or even white, whatever,turning out to meet with like-minded individuals, resolved to maintain their rights. If they're honest and have the strength of their convictions, I'll be standing right beside them.

    One of our most vocal and enthusiasticsupporters is an American of Salvadoran descent (Hispanic). He carries a .44 Magnum in an ornately tooled, cowboy-style holster and is an absolute pleasure to be around, an inspiration to my wife (of Russian descent) as a naturalized citizen. If we could find 9 more like him we would be pacing well towardsa much stronger and more aggressive lobbying group for Second Amendment rights and general freedoms. I would never hesitate to turn my back on him and have as good a feeling as one can that he'd be right there covering and carrying whatever weight the situation called for from his side.Anyone who wants to start a racist rant among our group is gonna get cut off pretty quick.

    Bring them on, I'm up for coffeeandwarm times with anyone who believes in the Constitution, individual freedoms, privacy and rewarding personal initiative. I think most carriers I know are too.

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    Eh? Did your meds not kick in?

    I'm a libertarian, I disagree with both sides because they all use government to push ideology.

    The rest, I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe the cow farts in Wisconsin are making you light headed?

    The real I think you are a sheep, is that instead of seeing that I am actually agreeing with you, but that the problem isn't "mexicans" or "obama" but the entire change in the last 60 years with government intervention in our lives, you attack.

    I'm unsure why you'd think I'm brainwashed, I am actually one person who believes that you should never believe anyone, even myself I believe in putting one's conceived notions down and even examine your own beliefs. '



    Glock34 wrote:
    You are so far of base, your not even within walking distance of the ball park...go figure:?

    Me a sheep ??? That's laughable do I need to remind everyone here how much Government kool aid you consume on a daily basis ???!? Sheeples are those, like you, that think everything is just fine. Me I am more of a.....ultra conservative that would LOVE to see the big RESET happen soon , sheeples like YOU PACE are so comatose that you will never wake up to reality, so keep sleeping.........but we won't go into that again, I wouldn't want "someone " reporting me to the Feds, like that PACE guy:what: was threatening to do awhile back, for speaking against his beloved Obama.

    Oh, Pace...by the way....I was just at a TEA PARTY, actually provided the PA system for it......Nothing but Blue / white collar Working class & Unemployed working class attending. Why are they out of work ?? not because they are lazy or not looking, but because the JOBS DON'T EXIST. Your Illegals took them, because they work for a lot less, because of NAFTA, CAFTA & other global free trade policies that have doomed the American people & because Corp America move their manufacturing base out of America...Americans demand a living wage , Chinese workers get paid what 10 bucks a day if they are lucky..

    Pace please go somewhere & UN BRAINWASH YOURSELF.

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    Amen.

    Deanimator wrote:
    The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism.

    Gun control has ALWAYS been a means to disarm disfavored minorities so that they can be degraded by their attackers in physical safety.

    The last person to cite the Holocaust as a GOOD thing also criticized me for wearing an NRA ballcap.

    Scratch an anti-gunner, find a Klansman (or Nazi).

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