• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Well it finally happened

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
imported post

GWRedDragon wrote:
He is a police officer. It is his job to enforce the laws as interpreted by the courts; if he decided on his own that certain laws were invalid and didn't arrest anyone, he would be fired.
And if he either makes up his own laws to "enforce" or violates somebody's rights by willfully or negligently misapplying existing law, he'll get sued and lose.
 

GWRedDragon

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
252
Location
Arlington, Virginia, USA
imported post

Deanimator wrote:
GWRedDragon wrote:
He is a police officer. It is his job to enforce the laws as interpreted by the courts; if he decided on his own that certain laws were invalid and didn't arrest anyone, he would be fired.
And if he either makes up his own laws to "enforce" or violates somebody's rights by willfully or negligently misapplying existing law, he'll get sued and lose.

Where did that come into play?
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
imported post

GWRedDragon wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
GWRedDragon wrote:
He is a police officer. It is his job to enforce the laws as interpreted by the courts; if he decided on his own that certain laws were invalid and didn't arrest anyone, he would be fired.
And if he either makes up his own laws to "enforce" or violates somebody's rights by willfully or negligently misapplying existing law, he'll get sued and lose.

Where did that come into play?
I don't understand the question. Are you saying that LEOs haven't done that?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:
SNIP Spot on correct.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were never meant to be malleable by the Founders but rather cast in stone as the supreme law of the land - in particular the Bill of Rights.
Whoa! Notsofast. Slow down just a little. :)

The Framers passed the constitution without a Bill of Rights. It was the howling of the Anti-federalists that got the BOR. Even Madison was not all that keen on having a BOR. "A nauseous business", I think is how he termed it in a letter to a contemporary. Basically, he set about collecting and editing lists of rights proposed by others in order to shut up the anti-constitution racket by the Anti-federalists before it actually derailed the ratification by the states.

The Anti-federalists were convinced the proposed central government would become too powerful (wonder where they got that idea?). They launched a counter campaign. They were concerned about some of the provisions in the constitution itself, and criticized the lack of a Bill of Rights. Apparently the tactic backfired. They got the Bill of Rights. People stopped worrying. And the provisions in the constitution itself to which the Anti-federalists objected were still in there.

If you want to know more, look up a book called The Anti-federalist Papers. It is a collection of essays, I think published in newspapers, when the states were considering adopting the constitution. Very interesting stuff in there. Many of their predictions about large, putrid government have come true.
 

GWRedDragon

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
252
Location
Arlington, Virginia, USA
imported post

Deanimator wrote:
GWRedDragon wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
GWRedDragon wrote:
He is a police officer. It is his job to enforce the laws as interpreted by the courts; if he decided on his own that certain laws were invalid and didn't arrest anyone, he would be fired.
And if he either makes up his own laws to "enforce" or violates somebody's rights by willfully or negligently misapplying existing law, he'll get sued and lose.

Where did that come into play?
I don't understand the question.  Are you saying that LEOs haven't done that?

No. I was just saying, I don't think the idea of intentional violation is relevant to the prior discussion.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
SNIP Spot on correct.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were never meant to be malleable by the Founders but rather cast in stone as the supreme law of the land - in particular the Bill of Rights.
Whoa! Notsofast. Slow down just a little. :)

The Framers passed the constitution without a Bill of Rights. It was the howling of the Anti-federalists that got the BOR. Even Madison was not all that keen on having a BOR. "A nauseous business", I think is how he termed it in a letter to a contemporary. Basically, he set about collecting and editing lists of rights proposed by others in order to shut up the anti-constitution racket by the Anti-federalists before it actually derailed the ratification by the states.

The Anti-federalists were convinced the proposed central government would become too powerful (wonder where they got that idea?). They launched a counter campaign. They were concerned about some of the provisions in the constitution itself, and criticized the lack of a Bill of Rights. Apparently the tactic backfired. They got the Bill of Rights. People stopped worrying. And the provisions in the constitution itself to which the Anti-federalists objected were still in there.

If you want to know more, look up a book called The Anti-federalist Papers. It is a collection of essays, I think published in newspapers, when the states were considering adopting the constitution. Very interesting stuff in there. Many of their predictions about large, putrid government have come true.
Yes sir, I'm well aware of this.

The Bill of Rights resulted from the insistence of particularly two Founders: George Mason and Patrick Henry. Together they convinced James Madison that a Bill of Rights was not only a good idea, but that it was paramount to future Americans for their protection against an encroaching central government.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

wylde007 wrote:
Despite Hamilton's protests.
(Chuckle)

The fedgov reveals its true attitude with every ten-dollar bill it prints.

Even the Soviets had enough sense to disavow Kruschev.

PS: If you really want to see someone being spit on, look at Andrew Jackson on the twenty-dollar bill. Andrew Jackson, was a vigorous opponent of thecentral bank,successfully getting rid of it during his presidency.And the Federal Reserve, themost powerful central bank in history,puts him on its twenty-dollar bill--it is clearly labeled "Federal Reserve Note." Talk about desecrating Jackson's memory. Whoever agreed to that at The Fed must have been laughing his azz off.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

t33j wrote:
No response yet to the FOIA letter I sent on the 27th.
I would file a complaint with the FOIA Council. That should start things rolling.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
Despite Hamilton's protests.
(Chuckle)

The fedgov reveals its true attitude with every ten-dollar bill it prints.

Even the Soviets had enough sense to disavow Kruschev.

PS: If you really want to see someone being spit on, look at Andrew Jackson on the twenty-dollar bill. Andrew Jackson, was a vigorous opponent of thecentral bank,successfully getting rid of it during his presidency.And the Federal Reserve, themost powerful central bank in history,puts him on its twenty-dollar bill--it is clearly labeled "Federal Reserve Note." Talk about desecrating Jackson's memory. Whoever agreed to that at The Fed must have been laughing his azz off.
Yes and few people are aware of this little know fact.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:
Citizen wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
Despite Hamilton's protests.
(Chuckle)

The fedgov reveals its true attitude with every ten-dollar bill it prints.

Even the Soviets had enough sense to disavow Kruschev.

PS: If you really want to see someone being spit on, look at Andrew Jackson on the twenty-dollar bill. Andrew Jackson, was a vigorous opponent of thecentral bank,successfully getting rid of it during his presidency.And the Federal Reserve, themost powerful central bank in history,puts him on its twenty-dollar bill--it is clearly labeled "Federal Reserve Note." Talk about desecrating Jackson's memory. Whoever agreed to that at The Fed must have been laughing his azz off.
Yes and few people are aware of this little know fact.
Every President should be honored in some way

ob.jpg
 

t33j

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
1,384
Location
King George, VA
imported post

Alright, so it did come the mail today. I got a video along with a few frames extracted as bitmap pictures, the incident report, the field interview notice, and a letter from the ODU Associate Counsel (who I consulted previously regarding campus boundaries).

There's a tad bit more going on here than I initially realized which I think is summed up well in the report so I'm copying it here.

"On 03/25/10, at approximately 1725 hours, I responded to 4000 Monarch Way, with the assist of PO ***** and Detective *****, for a complaint of a person with a weapon. This complaint was made by Detective *****[different from above], who was assigned to a special detail for the visiting Virginia Attorney General who was inside the location of 4211 Monarch Way. (Also known as Innovation Research Park. I am a member of an ODU lab in that building. While ODU leases at least 2 floors, I'm almost certain it does not own the building... not that that really matters anyway, just FYI) Upon arrival I saw a white male who was identified as [me], talking with a unidentified white male in the driver's seat of a ***** in color, [friend's car], Virginia license *****, parked at 4111 Monarch Way. I saw [me] wearing a exposed and holstered black in color hangun on his right hip. I told [me] that he was being detained for identification purposes. [Me] appeared calm and was cooperative. A VCIN/NCIC/Norfolk Police local check was negative. [Me] was not a registered for a concealed weapons permit. [Me] was released and departed in a [my car], Virginia license *****. The [friend's car] left the scene about this same time. A ODUPD field interview card was completed and filed."

My comments bolded and alterations in brackets. Spelling and grammatical errors not mine.
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

There is no RAS for detention in the police report. Identify the man with a gun is complete BS in Virginia!

Make a written complaint. The paperwork that such complaints creates really does act as a deterrent in many cases. It also builds a paper trail when they harass others.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

"Ken? Did you hear? The cops over at ODU were using your presence as an excuse to illegally detain one of your supporters from the gun-rights lobby. Yeah, got the report right here. They all but blame it on you. Real name-droppers they are. Want a copy? Sure, I'll fax it right over. Tell Mrs. Cuccinelli I said hello."

:)
 

IanB

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,896
Location
Northern VA
imported post

t33j wrote:
I told [me] that he was being detained for identification purposes. [Me] appeared calm and was cooperative. A VCIN/NCIC/Norfolk Police local check was negative.

Exchooooze me? WTF? Am I missing something here... did the laws change suddenly... or have cops always had the power to randomly detain legal law abiding citizens on the sidewalk for identification checks absent RAS?
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

nakedshoplifter wrote:
t33j wrote:
I told [me] that he was being detained for identification purposes. [Me] appeared calm and was cooperative. A VCIN/NCIC/Norfolk Police local check was negative.

Exchooooze me? WTF? Am I missing something here... did the laws change suddenly... or have cops always had the power to randomly detain legal law abiding citizens on the sidewalk for identification checks absent RAS?
Yeah, I was extremely bothered by this.

I would personally refuse. Which means i'd probably be written down as something other than "calm and cooperative", despite the fact that I likely would remain calm.

Not cool.
 
Top