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Thread: My take on MOC

  1. #1
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    I just wanted to say something to the people on this forum who don't want to join MOC do to personal reasons and not financial ones. I love being a member of MOC. Since I have been a paying member, a whole whoppin $20 :?, I have never got caught up in this whole Drama BS people speak of.

    Because of the following reasons that people do not want to join, such as proposed ill communication(Though I have received prompt emails whenever i sent them to MOCinc and never expected responses on OCDO), lack of leadership, ridiculous banter, and ill talk of its members among other members, are the very reasons I want to be a member. Being of sound mind it is people like me, and the ones who know their true worth within MOC, that make a difference and will not allow these travesties to belittle the cause of MOC. If you are for Open Carry then I feel Michigan Open Carry can be a very valuable tool in our fight to retain our rights. They have made more good PR than any one person could on their own in Michigan.

    JMO

    Devery

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    +1

    I have been disappointed to see some of the people I respect fling accusations anddeliver heat-of-the-momentultimatums, but overall I have had a great experience.

    I have had zero issues with the leadership and I suspect that the turnovers in the last two months have been due to politics rather than any true leadership failure on their part.

    In fact, I would say that I would be far more fearful of being leadership in MOC than I would be of being a member.

    One thing that must be remembered is that the type of people that gravitate toward the kind of activism that we do have a distinct maverick stripe. We do not tend to be overly polite and often require more respect than we tend to give. It can be like herding cats to meet the needs of people like us. If we were inclined to play nice and fold our hands when dissatisfied, we certainly would not be the type to open carry a weapon in defiance of social norms.

    I like this type of person for the most part, but I could do without the emotion that some bring. The emotionaltypes will burn out and go elsewhere while stable people remain. Don't worry, MOC will be around as long as change is being sought. The only thing thatwill kill us is when Open Carry of all types is socially acceptable in MI.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    +1 and +1 to both of you!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    :-D +10k

  5. #5
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    I dont have any problem with MOC itself i do believe there needs to be some changes!!!I do like being a part of the whole open carry experience

  6. #6
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    JamesIan wrote:
    One thing that must be remembered is that the type of people that gravitate toward the kind of activism that we do have a distinct maverick stripe. We do not tend to be overly polite and often require more respect than we tend to give. It can be like herding cats to meet the needs of people like us. If we were inclined to play nice and fold our hands when dissatisfied, we certainly would not be the type to open carry a weapon in defiance of social norms.
    I don't know about all that. Most of us here are very polite. I do believe that now that us "old timers" have gone out and proved it can be done, and now that police across the state are backing off in drives, that more people who are less legally savvy and polite will be getting more and more involved.

    But OCing is still not the sort of thing an obnoxious jerk can easily get away with. I have said from the very beginning that OCing tends to make you and everyone else around you more polite. I believe it was dougwg that pointed out that OCing often makes OCers tip better, to prove they are good people.

    Anyone who OC's who falls into the respect commanding maverick category needs to seriously adjust their attitude.

    Anyway, in regards to MOC, I am not privy to all of the drama that has been unfolding, and frankly I don't know that I care. When the smoke clears, and what's left of the leadership straightens the situation out, I will once again consider it my business. Until then, I will respectfully stay out of it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  7. #7
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    The basic problem, some of us don't know when to keep our keyboards quiet. Some just like pushing situations beyond limits, even when some of us are trying to put an end to it. Why? I have no idea.

    But I do hope that it all calms down soon. Until then, the only thing I can see that works, is ignoring the comments that are the most disruptive, regardless how much they might annoy us.
    Big Gay Al
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    Well said Michigander!

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    cabman1 wrote:
    I dont have any problem with MOC itself i do believe there needs to be some changes!!!I do like being a part of the whole open carry experience
    I whole heartily agree there needs to be some changes, that is one of the many reasons that I am a member.

    If you're involved, it is a voice, if you are a part of something else, it is an opinion.

    I have respect for opinions that come from an educated mind, but never the less, outside minds that do not partake are still just opinions.

    Devery

    P.S. Drama is only drama when no changes are made and there appears to be no motivation to move forward. That is why i only partake in the fun/education things that come with OCing.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    All you have to do is ignore and not respond to their posts. Don't take the bait, soon the trollers move on to new waters.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    All you have to do is ignore and not respond to their posts. Don't take the bait, soon the trollers move on to new waters.
    But are they really trolls?

    Or are they shining a spotlight on the cockroaches to make them run?

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    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.

  13. #13
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    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    You can pick faults with anything, and I've got nothing against picking faults with MOC since I believe everything should always be attempted to improved on, but I can't say I agree that MOC hasn't gone forward. MOC has seen to it that tens of thousands of people have been educated. Through its organization, police harassment has almost completely ended. This would not have been possible if we were just random people acting on our own.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    Perhaps with your leadership qualities you should step up to the plate and take MOC by the horns and demonstrate the God-like qualities you possess that will accelerate MOC forward at an astounding speed. The useless pieces of chitPresidents, Brian and John did absolutely nothing in the last 12 months, perhaps you can make some advancements.

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    Michigander wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    You can pick faults with anything, and I've got nothing against picking faults with MOC since I believe everything should always be attempted to improved on, but I can't say I agree that MOC hasn't gone forward. MOC has seen to it that tens of thousands of people have been educated. Through its organization, police harassment has almost completely ended. This would not have been possible if we were just random people acting on our own.
    I have to disagree in that OC in general has educated thousands. Average every day people OCing have educated thousands. MOC has done its part but the real work was done by average people OCing. It was done before MOC existed and will be done long after MOC.INC falls. Open carry is legal in Michigan. Therefore people will OC. It doesnt take MOC.INC and its lack ofcoordination to accomplish the same goal as any individual. As long as OCDO is here, members of this forum will continue to participate in OC events. Regardless if these events are MOC.INC sanctioned or not.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    Perhaps with your leadership qualities you should step up to the plate and take MOC by the horns and demonstrate the God-like qualities you possess that will accelerate MOC forward at an astounding speed. The useless pieces of chitPresidents, Brian and John did absolutely nothing in the last 12 months, perhaps you can make some advancements.
    If you truly believe this then what are you doing about it as an official of MOC on behalf of the members that you represent?

    Is there something more that is going on that the membership needs to be made aware of?

  17. #17
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    Perhaps with your leadership qualities you should step up to the plate and take MOC by the horns and demonstrate the God-like qualities you possess that will accelerate MOC forward at an astounding speed. The useless pieces of chitPresidents, Brian and John did absolutely nothing in the last 12 months, perhaps you can make some advancements.
    Kind of extreme but. Never, nor do I think or ever thought anyone involved in this organization are useless or anything else derogatory. From an outside looking in they have continued the mission they set out to complete. However in my opinion they have not moved forward but in fact backwards at this point.


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    wardog6d wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    Perhaps with your leadership qualities you should step up to the plate and take MOC by the horns and demonstrate the God-like qualities you possess that will accelerate MOC forward at an astounding speed. The useless pieces of chitPresidents, Brian and John did absolutely nothing in the last 12 months, perhaps you can make some advancements.
    Kind of extreme but. Never, nor do I think or ever thought anyone involved in this organization are useless or anything else derogatory. From an outside looking in they have continued the mission they set out to complete. However in my opinion they have not moved forward but in fact backwards at this point.
    OK, so what are your suggestions for MOC to move forward? There's lots of keyboard kommandos here but no one is stepping up to the plate.

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    Everyone involved with MOC.INC members, officers and even non members see some people as wanting to bring down MOC.INC. I do not personally believe anyone one or group wants to see MOC.INC fail. I think everyone wants certain issue's resolved. Excuses to the masses/members do nothing more then show the lack of commitment by its officers. Which is well now by now with in MOC.INC IE quitters. With that being said and as many issue's that MOC.INC has had in the past , present and future the people will continue to support MOC.INC and events relavent to. The cause is not lost by the people even though the company is out to lunch.

  20. #20
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    wardog6d wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    Perhaps with your leadership qualities you should step up to the plate and take MOC by the horns and demonstrate the God-like qualities you possess that will accelerate MOC forward at an astounding speed. The useless pieces of chitPresidents, Brian and John did absolutely nothing in the last 12 months, perhaps you can make some advancements.
    Kind of extreme but. Never, nor do I think or ever thought anyone involved in this organization are useless or anything else derogatory. From an outside looking in they have continued the mission they set out to complete. However in my opinion they have not moved forward but in fact backwards at this point.
    And you have the right to that opinion just as others have the right to theirs... However I would like you to try and spell out the specific reasons you feel MOC has not moved forward.

    We have already seen Michigander Post one of the major improvements that MOC and it's members have achieved and that is a drastically reduced Police harassment level. I know of much behind the scenes work that was and is being done to keep this ball rolling.

    Trust me when I say there is much going on every day behind the scenes that while may not seem that important it is what makes it better for all of us.


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    From a personal stand point. As I am not an MOC member andalthough I support MOC and its officers and members. The drama, quitters, and everything else that has gone on in recent weeks has really no bearing on my personal issue not to join. First and fore most I believe MOC has not moved forward in any way since its introduction. MOC.INC is a non profit organization that charges to become a member, there are no levels of membership. The fact that MOC.INC has continued to try and use OCDO as its primary means of communications is a huge fault. Finally have you ever done a search for Michigan Open Carry? How many MOC websites are there? Non of which have there own forum attached.
    Perhaps with your leadership qualities you should step up to the plate and take MOC by the horns and demonstrate the God-like qualities you possess that will accelerate MOC forward at an astounding speed. The useless pieces of chitPresidents, Brian and John did absolutely nothing in the last 12 months, perhaps you can make some advancements.
    Kind of extreme but. Never, nor do I think or ever thought anyone involved in this organization are useless or anything else derogatory. From an outside looking in they have continued the mission they set out to complete. However in my opinion they have not moved forward but in fact backwards at this point.
    OK, so what are your suggestions for MOC to move forward? There's lots of keyboard kommandos here but no one is stepping up to the plate.
    What do you think can be done about this?

    Where can we start if the secretary that has not performed for months won't resign even when asked to by the board of governors?

  22. #22
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    My friend, you should take a look around. OC is in the news, LEOs are getting educated, people are going to OC seminars, there are frequent events to attend. I'd say the cause itself is moving along nicely. To say that MOC has had nothing to do with that is false.

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    wardog6d wrote:
    Everyone involved with MOC.INC members, officers and even non members see some people as wanting to bring down MOC.INC. I do not personally believe anyone one or group wants to see MOC.INC fail. I think everyone wants certain issue's resolved. Excuses to the masses/members do nothing more then show the lack of commitment by its officers. Which is well now by now with in MOC.INC IE quitters. With that being said and as many issue's that MOC.INC has had in the past , present and future the people will continue to support MOC.INC and events relavent to. The cause is not lost by the people even though the company is out to lunch.
    Wardog, don't you think that "quitters" is a bit much? How long have you been President of MOC? How long have you been VP of MOC? How long have you been Events Coordinator for MOC? ETC? You talk the talk, why don't you walk the walk?

  24. #24
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    First and foremost I think MOC.INC should cease all airing of company laundry within a nonMOC.INC affiliate. This is one way MOC.INC refuses to move forward. Nothing in regards to MOC.INC aside from events should be posted in this forum. MOC.INC refuses to see the issue with this fact. MOC.INC has basicly placed blinders on and have basicly stated there going to do what they want, not want the members want. Paying members who are paying for a service from a company. MOC.INC owesits members resultsregardless of how much they have paid. If MOC.INC cannot or refuses to provide results to its members, the members will continue to be disgruntled and unhappy with the company. These same members will continue to voice there opinion which is there right. Wether or not MOC.INC will comply with its members is to be seen.

    MOC.INC has had how many people quit for various reasons in recent months. Every one of them that has quit has posted the said information here?



  25. #25
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    JamesIan wrote:
    My friend, you should take a look around. OC is in the news, LEOs are getting educated, people are going to OC seminars, there are frequent events to attend. I'd say the cause itself is moving along nicely. To say that MOC has had nothing to do with that is false.
    Its not a matter of doing nothing its a matter of MOC.INC hasnt done it all. General people that OC are the core of the movement. This was done before MOC and will be done long after MOC is gone.

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