View Poll Results: Is a Airsoft Gun a Gun?

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  • YES

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  • NO

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Thread: Is a Airsoft Gun a Gun?

  1. #1
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    I want to get EVERYONE'S Opinion on this, There is a concern on this question.


    FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
    Act 372 of 1927

    28.421 Definitions.Sec. 1.
    As used in this act:
    (a) "Felony" means that term as defined in section 1 of chapter I of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 761.1, or a violation of a law of the United States or another state that is designated as a felony or that is punishable by death or by imprisonment for more than 1 year.
    (b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.
    (c) "Misdemeanor" means a violation of a penal law of this state or violation of a local ordinance substantially corresponding to a violation of a penal law of this state that is not a felony or a violation of an order, rule, or regulation of a state agency that is punishable by imprisonment or a fine that is not a civil fine, or both.
    (d) "Peace officer" means, except as otherwise provided in this act, an individual who is employed as a law enforcement officer, as that term is defined under section 2 of the commission on law enforcement standards act, 1965 PA 203, MCL 28.602, by this state or another state, a political subdivision of this state or another state, or the United States, and who is required to carry a firearm in the course of his or her duties as a law enforcement officer.
    (e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.
    (f) "Purchaser" means a person who receives a pistol from another person by purchase or gift.
    (g) "Reserve peace officer", "auxiliary officer", or "reserve officer" means, except as otherwise provided in this act, an individual authorized on a voluntary or irregular basis by a duly authorized police agency of this state or a political subdivision of this state to act as a law enforcement officer, who is responsible for the preservation of the peace, the prevention and detection of crime, and the enforcement of the general criminal laws of this state, and who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this act.
    (h) "Retired police officer" or "retired law enforcement officer" means an individual who was a police officer or law enforcement officer who was certified as described under section 9a of the commission on the law enforcement standards act, 1965 PA 203, MCL 28.609a, and retired in good standing from his or her employment as a police officer or law enforcement officer.
    (i) "Seller" means a person who sells or gives a pistol to another person.
    (j) "State court judge" means a judge of the district court, circuit court, probate court, or court of appeals or justice of the supreme court of this state who is serving either by election or appointment.
    (k) "State court retired judge" means a judge or justice described in subdivision (j) who is retired, or a retired judge of the recorders court.


    History: 1927, Act 372, Eff. Sept. 5, 1927 ;-- CL 1929, 16749 ;-- CL 1948, 28.421 ;-- Am. 1964, Act 216, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 219, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;-- Am. 2000, Act 381, Eff. July 1, 2001 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 719, Eff. July 1, 2003 ;-- Am. 2008, Act 407, Eff. Apr. 6, 2009
    Popular Name: CCW
    Popular Name: Concealed Weapons
    Popular Name: Right to Carry
    Popular Name: Shall Issue


  2. #2
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    Doesn't matter what our opinions are, legally, it's not a firearm. Therefore preemption does not apply. It's up to the local municipalities to regulate. I'll post a cite if you don't find it on your own.

  3. #3
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber. Soft air is 6mm!
    If it is not a firearm and falls under local ordinances, then you need to find out what that cities ord. are, to determine whether they were broken by his carrying it.


  4. #4
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    iver read about 10 pages of posts relating to lilfreak carrying an airsoft and id like to say something about it.

    i know he is dedicated to the OC and 2A movement! he should be commended for trying to make a valuable contribution!

    the fact that the 6mm airsoft gun he was loaned to carry on private property is legaly questionable has generated more time and effort than is justified, when you consider that nothing bad came of it!

    i know that when you want to be in with the club, to be included in the activities of the group, to be recongnised as one the the folks, doing the thing that "your group" is doing, is a strong incentive to try to do anything, everything you can to fit in!

    i know lilfreak is "under age", and special circumstances apply to his parcipatation in the activities of the group, it is illegal for lilfreak to carry an actual hand gun and we all know that.

    this didnt preclude some wanting to give a hand to help him feel to be included it the activities that the group was doing that day, i think that a good thing for our younger members!

    i think the biggest problem, besides being willing to carry a pretend gun is that the pretend gun didnt meet the correct legal definition of a toy gun!

    to that end i would suggest that a proper .177 cal. BB gun and retention holster be gotten so that lilfreak can "OPEN CARRY" just like every body else, as is his SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT!!!!! CARRY ON BOB in washington

    ive got a daisy BB gun, but no holster that would be perfect, but i need it for the crows.


    i hope this is not seen as a put down for lilfreak,,, and i hope you are saving your money for the private purchase of your real gun when you come of age.

    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  5. #5
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    CrossPistols wrote:
    b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber. Soft air is 6mm!
    If it is not a firearm and falls under local ordinances, then you need to find out what that cities ord. are, to determine whether they were broken by his carrying it.

    If the projectile is larger than .177 than it is a fire arm, second he can carry a fire arm if supervised even a pistol, third it was private Property, fourth, nothing came of the incident so it really doesn't matter. I know someone brought up the issue of Parental permission, but it was never mentioned in the OP if his mommy gave permission or not.

    Article 1 Section 6: Every person shall...

  6. #6
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    CrossPistols wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Soft air is 6mm!
    If it is not a firearm and falls under local ordinances, then you need to find out what that cities ord. are, to determine whether they were broken by his carrying it.

    Â*
    If the projectile is larger than .177 than it is a fire arm, second he can carry a fire arm if supervised even a pistol, third it was private Property, fourth, nothing came of the incident so it really doesn't matter.Â* I know someone brought up the issue of Parental permission, but it was never mentioned in the OP if his mommy gave permission or not.

    Article 1 Section 6:Â* Every person shall...
    That's wrong. Just because the caliber is larger than .177 doesn't automatically make it a firearm.

    The projectile also has to be "dangerous."

    The question at hand is this: Is the projectile dangerous? Do we have case law that supports this?

  7. #7
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    CrossPistols wrote:
    b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber. Soft air is 6mm!
    If it is not a firearm and falls under local ordinances, then you need to find out what that cities ord. are, to determine whether they were broken by his carrying it.

    If the projectile is larger than .177 than it is a fire arm, second he can carry a fire arm if supervised even a pistol, third it was private Property, fourth, nothing came of the incident so it really doesn't matter. I know someone brought up the issue of Parental permission, but it was never mentioned in the OP if his mommy gave permission or not.

    Article 1 Section 6: Every person shall...
    That's wrong. Just because the caliber is larger than .177 doesn't automatically make it a firearm.

    The projectile also has to be "dangerous."

    The question at hand is this: Is the projectile dangerous? Do we have case law that supports this?
    Sorry Zig, I was going to comment on that, but I thought you knew we are dealing with the govt. you know them Anything is a "dangerous" projectile. Hell they consider a marshmallow a "dangerous" projectile, if you catch it on fire your contributing to Global warming by releasing "Dangerous" CO2 into the air, never mind if you fling it off the end of the stick and it sticks to your 11 year old son's back....lol

  8. #8
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    Case law...Lets see I'll shot you in the eye at point blank, if you flinch We say it is dangerous, if you don't flinch, we'll say it's not! Don't tell any one but I shot myself and um uh I flinched!:shock:

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    CrossPistols wrote:
    Case law...Lets see I'll shot you in the eye at point blank, if you flinch We say it is dangerous, if you don't flinch, we'll say it's not! Don't tell any one but I shot myself and um uh I flinched!:shock:
    Would you call a paint ball gun dangerous? People shoot each other with those all the time. I can tell you from experience, they hurt a bit when they hit.

    As for airsoft, they seem to be replacing paintball guns in some competitive settings.

    http://www.airsoftchallenge.com/

    Oh, I shot myself with an airsoft.....once. I didn't flinch, but it sure hurt.
    Big Gay Al
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    I was issued a ticket for carrying and discharging a firearm on state property outside of legal hunting season. I was shooting a paintball marker. Under the DNR law I was cited for, a rubber band and a spitball would be a firearm.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

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    1776"

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  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    I was issued a ticket for carrying and discharging a firearm on state property outside of legal hunting season. I was shooting a paintball marker. Under the DNR law I was cited for, a rubber band and a spitball would be a firearm.
    Well, that's just plain wrong. Government needs to be reigned in.
    Big Gay Al
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  12. #12
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    I was issued a ticket for carrying and discharging a firearm on state property outside of legal hunting season. I was shooting a paintball marker. Under the DNR law I was cited for, a rubber band and a spitball would be a firearm.
    This is interesting. Was it an area that is restricted to shooting during parts of the year?

    I see the red signs around some camping and hiking ares that limit shooting outside of hunting season.







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  13. #13
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    I was issued a ticket for carrying and discharging a firearm on state property outside of legal hunting season. I was shooting a paintball marker. Under the DNR law I was cited for, a rubber band and a spitball would be a firearm.
    This is interesting. Was it an area that is restricted to shooting during parts of the year?

    I see the red signs around some camping and hiking ares that limit shooting outside of hunting season.







    Watch for the UFO.

    I don't recall. I'll have to go back by there and check, although this was years ago, and signs may have been put up or taken down by now. I wasn't overly concerned with it, since I didn't feel a paintball marker was a gun.

    Apparently the DNR has changed their definition of firearm to be more in line with the state definition. I have been looking for the law I was cited under, and can't find it now.

    eta:there was no camping area nearby, and though there were trails through the area, it wasn't anything like Seven Lakes trails in Holly. Just woods with trails from hunters and animals, no marked trails, no trail signage.

    The point is, stuff happens.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    In answer to the original poll question, an airsoft gun, is a gun, but it's not a firearm.

    From: http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/274

    The Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office will no longer criminally charge anyone caught carrying an airsoft pistol, backing off an earlier edict that deemed the realistic toy guns firearms under state law.

    The policy change came on the heels of a letter sent by the Michigan Attorney General’s Office to a state representative addressing the legality of airsoft guns, which shoot plastic pellets but look like real weapons.

    Washtenaw County appeared to be one of the only counties where prosecutors believed airsoft guns qualified as firearms. Several other county prosecutors and the Michigan State Police disagreed, saying the plastic pellets they shoot are not a dangerous projectile, as defined by the law.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    In answer to the original poll question, an airsoft gun, is a gun, but it's not a firearm.

    From: http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/274

    The Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office will no longer criminally charge anyone caught carrying an airsoft pistol, backing off an earlier edict that deemed the realistic toy guns firearms under state law.

    The policy change came on the heels of a letter sent by the Michigan Attorney General’s Office to a state representative addressing the legality of airsoft guns, which shoot plastic pellets but look like real weapons.

    Washtenaw County appeared to be one of the only counties where prosecutors believed airsoft guns qualified as firearms. Several other county prosecutors and the Michigan State Police disagreed, saying the plastic pellets they shoot are not a dangerous projectile, as defined by the law.
    Oh crap and the argument was just getting interesting!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Sorry about that.

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  17. #17
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    In answer to the original poll question, an airsoft gun, is a gun, but it's not a firearm.

    From: http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/274

    The Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office will no longer criminally charge anyone caught carrying an airsoft pistol, backing off an earlier edict that deemed the realistic toy guns firearms under state law.

    The policy change came on the heels of a letter sent by the Michigan Attorney General’s Office to a state representative addressing the legality of airsoft guns, which shoot plastic pellets but look like real weapons.

    Washtenaw County appeared to be one of the only counties where prosecutors believed airsoft guns qualified as firearms. Several other county prosecutors and the Michigan State Police disagreed, saying the plastic pellets they shoot are not a dangerous projectile, as defined by the law.
    Oh crap and the argument was just getting interesting!
    From the linked UK article:

    "Ryan Mainz, a firearms registration expert for the Ann Arbor Police Department, cautioned parents and other airsoft gun owners not to assume that the opinion means anything called an airsoft gun is legal. He said the term airsoft has been broadly used to describe other replica weapons that are not legal without a permit, such as a rifle-barreled pellet gun. Mainz recommended that people check with police if they have questions or concerns."






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  18. #18
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    In answer to the original poll question, an airsoft gun, is a gun, but it's not a firearm.

    From: http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/274

    The Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office will no longer criminally charge anyone caught carrying an airsoft pistol, backing off an earlier edict that deemed the realistic toy guns firearms under state law.

    The policy change came on the heels of a letter sent by the Michigan Attorney General’s Office to a state representative addressing the legality of airsoft guns, which shoot plastic pellets but look like real weapons.

    Washtenaw County appeared to be one of the only counties where prosecutors believed airsoft guns qualified as firearms. Several other county prosecutors and the Michigan State Police disagreed, saying the plastic pellets they shoot are not a dangerous projectile, as defined by the law.
    Oh crap and the argument was just getting interesting!
    From the linked UK article:

    "Ryan Mainz, a firearms registration expert for the Ann Arbor Police Department, cautioned parents and other airsoft gun owners not to assume that the opinion means anything called an airsoft gun is legal. He said the term airsoft has been broadly used to describe other replica weapons that are not legal without a permit, such as a rifle-barreled pellet gun. Mainz recommended that people check with police if they have questions or concerns."






    The UFO is coming.
    No one here is confused about this ... and neither are the retailers. This is why Walmart no longer sells this type of pellet gun as it was too hard to handle.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    In the end, it's not a firearm.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    In the end, it's not a firearm.
    As most of us already knew...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  21. #21
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    Why do you have to be 18 to buy an Air soft Gun then? MUST be considered a Gun, If there is a Law that you have to be 18 to purchase one.

  22. #22
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    In the end, it's not a firearm.
    As most of us already knew...
    i believe we all knew.

    merely an excuse for drama.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  23. #23
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    Lil_Freak_66, DON`T get me started! You have broken the LAW how many times? And if someone is going to buy an Air Soft Gun then you have to be 18 to purchase one, You don`t need a PP but non the less ANYONE NEEDS to be 18 to purchase a Air Soft Gun.

  24. #24
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    I had thought (e) was about gadget guns, not fake guns that look real. But that is only my interpretation.
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  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    wally1120 wrote:
    Why do you have to be 18 to buy an Air soft Gun then? MUST be considered a Gun, If there is a Law that you have to be 18 to purchase one.
    Nope, they're cigarettes.

    Big Gay Al
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