Guns stolen.....

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FMCDH wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Packer fan wrote:

FMCDH wrote:

This place not taking some of the most basic of precautions like vaulting their firearms at night, orputting in even a rudimentary CC system and some sort of motion sensor security system,its just idiotic and unforgivable given the amount of profit that gun stores are making these days.

Even if they survive this loss (and they probably will due to insurance) I will never go there, and I will steer others away.

When you store weapons on the scale of a small armory, you better be putting at least SOME money toward the security of those weapons.

There is just no excuse these days for just locking the door and calling it secure. :X

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If people didn't steal in the first place they wouldn't have to have such security.

The problem isn't the shop it's the thieves! Period.

I remember as a kid, and I'm not that old, that we never locked our doors. Now people are getting blamed for not having cameras. Let's put the blame where it belongs.


One can have the bestsecurity and if a person wants to find a flaw they will.

Forgive the shop owner for trusting people.


So when the thief comes in and steals from you the insurance should say you didn't have... armed guarders 24/7?

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Wise words, broseph.

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O please.

There is a certain level of responsibility when you own, use, carry, and especially sell and store firearms, and all indications point to the fact they took almost none of that responsibility into effect.

When you ADVERTISE that you have guns on your front door and on the sign on your building, then well, your in a different classification than "Joe at home". That's simple reality.

People are overall good, but we don't live in the days of "leaving the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition with the baby in the back seat" anymore, if we ever truly did. I think to a great degree your thinking is simple nostalgia fed by the lack of media coverage of the day.

If I were investigating this insurance claim, I would be looking hard at why this store didn't have some of the most basic of security set up. Regardless of any obvious laws broken, I would be looking very closely at the owners and employees of this store as the possible thieves.

You can live "the good old days" in your head if you like, but reality trumps.

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Nope not living in the good old days that is why my wife and I both carry everywhere we go, but to say I would boycott a place because I don't agree with the security is ludicrous.

First, we don't know (or maybe you do) what his insurance policy is or was.

Second, too assume just because he sells guns means he's getting rich is blowing hard.

Third, so what if he did or didn't have basic security, that is between him and the insurance if he has any.

So many assumptions being made and no blame on the thieves. This is why we live in the society we do. We blame the victim and not the perpetrators. If she wasn't ...then she wouldn't have gotten raped.

Would that have been wise to have gun vaults? Yes, but it may not even have stopped them then. Is a vault impenetrable? No!

I don't care if it was an inside job or not it's still wrong.


Why can't we go back to the good old days? Why can't we teach our children right from wrong. To do unto others as we would have done unto us or love your neighbors as yourself? It's to religious. We can't have religion in our society. Now look what we've got and I'm not even a baby boomer. I'm 37yrs old and I can remember when I could be gone all day without Mom or Dad worried. Now, I don't let my girls or boys go to the washroom alone in a public restaurant. Now, parents let their kids run and don't care what they do at any time.

Sorry for the rant.


The point being madeis why boycott a place because you don't agree with his nighttime security?It's his lost not yours.

I hope they catch the perpetrators and they have to pay back all theytook.

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Packer fan wrote:

FMCDH wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Packer fan wrote:

FMCDH wrote:

This place not taking some of the most basic of precautions like vaulting their firearms at night, orputting in even a rudimentary CC system and some sort of motion sensor security system,its just idiotic and unforgivable given the amount of profit that gun stores are making these days.

Even if they survive this loss (and they probably will due to insurance) I will never go there, and I will steer others away.

When you store weapons on the scale of a small armory, you better be putting at least SOME money toward the security of those weapons.

There is just no excuse these days for just locking the door and calling it secure. :X

Click to expand...

If people didn't steal in the first place they wouldn't have to have such security.

The problem isn't the shop it's the thieves! Period.

I remember as a kid, and I'm not that old, that we never locked our doors. Now people are getting blamed for not having cameras. Let's put the blame where it belongs.


One can have the bestsecurity and if a person wants to find a flaw they will.

Forgive the shop owner for trusting people.


So when the thief comes in and steals from you the insurance should say you didn't have... armed guarders 24/7?

Click to expand...

Wise words, broseph.

Click to expand...

O please.

There is a certain level of responsibility when you own, use, carry, and especially sell and store firearms, and all indications point to the fact they took almost none of that responsibility into effect.

When you ADVERTISE that you have guns on your front door and on the sign on your building, then well, your in a different classification than "Joe at home". That's simple reality.

People are overall good, but we don't live in the days of "leaving the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition with the baby in the back seat" anymore, if we ever truly did. I think to a great degree your thinking is simple nostalgia fed by the lack of media coverage of the day.

If I were investigating this insurance claim, I would be looking hard at why this store didn't have some of the most basic of security set up. Regardless of any obvious laws broken, I would be looking very closely at the owners and employees of this store as the possible thieves.

You can live "the good old days" in your head if you like, but reality trumps.

Click to expand...

Nope not living in the good old days that is why my wife and I both carry everywhere we go, but to say I would boycott a place because I don't agree with the security is ludicrous.

First, we don't know (or maybe you do) what his insurance policy is or was.

Second, too assume just because he sells guns means he's getting rich is blowing hard.

Third, so what if he did or didn't have basic security, that is between him and the insurance if he has any.

So many assumptions being made and no blame on the thieves. This is why we live in the society we do. We blame the victim and not the perpetrators. If she wasn't ...then she wouldn't have gotten raped.

Would that have been wise to have gun vaults? Yes, but it may not even have stopped them then. Is a vault impenetrable? No!

I don't care if it was an inside job or not it's still wrong.


Why can't we go back to the good old days? Why can't we teach our children right from wrong. To do unto others as we would have done unto us or love your neighbors as yourself? It's to religious. We can't have religion in our society. Now look what we've got and I'm not even a baby boomer. I'm 37yrs old and I can remember when I could be gone all day without Mom or Dad worried. Now, I don't let my girls or boys go to the washroom alone in a public restaurant. Now, parents let their kids run and don't care what they do at any time.

Sorry for the rant.


The point being madeis why boycott a place because you don't agree with his nighttime security?It's his lost not yours.

I hope they catch the perpetrators and they have to pay back all theytook.

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Yea, Those WERE the good ole days. But these are the New crappy days with criminal and we have to adjust, and think ahead and try to outsmart them. Thats why they call them criminals. Would you leave a loaded gun on your front seat with your car unlocked in downtown seattle because people arent SUPPOSED to streal it?

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<SNIP>

The point being madeis why boycott a place because you don't agree with his nighttime security?It's his lost not yours.

I hope they catch the perpetrators and they have to pay back all theytook.

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No, thats not the point, because I can boycott any business I wish for whatever reason I wish, and ask others to do the same.

It could just be my loss or yours if someonewe loveis killed by one of those 100+guns that will now undoubtedly be sold on the black market to those who probably shouldn't have them, if they are not recovered.

I wouldn't go so far as to blame the gun store for the killing, just having madebad businesschoicesthat helped thekiller get a weaponin the first place.

Those bad business choices sometimes have consequences beyond the immediate store and its owners, and when they do, responsible people call a spade a spade and hold businesses accountable for their corner cutting.

If we don't hold them responsible, the government will in the form of some knee-jerkregulation, which thenharms everyone who's doing everything right,AGAIN!

Live the way you would like to see the world become brother, but don't loose sight on what it actually is at this moment, because you wont like it when it blindsides you.

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/41164.html

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What the heck was that for!? A link to a link back to this thread?

As for the extra security, I'm going to have to put my vote in for the victim. There is enough steel and reinforcement to keep almost anybody out. While I do think they should have a CCTV system for business hours, who would really think of somebody coming in through the floor? There's probably more of a chance of thief coming in through the ceiling.
There is a higher responsibility that comes with having guns, but there's only so much you can do. Should everyone one of us have bars on the windows, CCTV systems, motion sensors, etc. just because we own firearms? Place the blame where it's supposed to be...unless you're in favor the AWB part that says LEO can come into your house at any time to inspect how you secure your weapons.

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Aryk45XD wrote:

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/41164.html

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What the heck was that for!? A link to a link back to this thread?

As for the extra security, I'm going to have to put my vote in for the victim. There is enough steel and reinforcement to keep almost anybody out. While I do think they should have a CCTV system for business hours, who would really think of somebody coming in through the floor? There's probably more of a chance of thief coming in through the ceiling.
There is a higher responsibility that comes with having guns, but there's only so much you can do. Should everyone one of us have bars on the windows, CCTV systems, motion sensors, etc. just because we own firearms? Place the blame where it's supposed to be...unless you're in favor the AWB part that says LEO can come into your house at any time to inspect how you secure your weapons.

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+25!

Enough with the Monday-morning polcing! It is the easiest thing in the world to go back after the fact & play woulda-shoulda-coulda, "oh look at me i'm smart he shoulda done thisnthisnthisnthis.

Want to blame the victim & refuse to do business there? Fine, that's your right. I'm going to make it a point to go out of my way to do some business there next time I can. Would have stopped in yesterday but I figured they'd be closed. I like that lil shop, they had a decent selection for what it is (was), lots of ammo, carried Hi-Points celebrate) and some other oddball cool things, the owner is a decent guy without any of that gun-shop snobbery we hear so much of, and they always had my favorite music station playing on the radio. Could the guy in charge have done things better? Sure he could, the same can be said for ANYONE in ANY circumstance. He's only human and that makes him fallible and imperfect, and judging by said radio station, I think he knows it. That place has been there for years & years, and has probably had the same security precautions for years & years that have worked just fine until this happened. Like someone else said, if a bad guy wants to commit a crime badly enough, they're going to figure out a way. The aggressor always has the advantage of choosing when, where, & how to strike.

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Tough break. I've bought several guns and fair bit of ammo from that store when I lived in Seattle. Randy runs a nice shop, plenty of variety and always fun to talk to.

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If my gun is not on me, it is locked in my gun safe. Thats why they sell gun safes. We are all responsible for our own actions.If you had 100 guns in your house would you just lock the door and leave for the whole evening, or would you have additional security? I dont think it will be too long before The Brady Campaigners will be protesting to ban guns in gun stores, cause you know their gonna have a field day with this one...

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FMCDH wrote:

<SNIP>

The point being made is why boycott a place because you don't agree with his nighttime security? It's his lost not yours.

I hope they catch the perpetrators and they have to pay back all they took.

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No, thats not the point, because I can boycott any business I wish for whatever reason I wish, and ask others to do the same.

It could just be my loss or yours if someone we love is killed by one of those 100+ guns that will now undoubtedly be sold on the black market to those who probably shouldn't have them, if they are not recovered.

I wouldn't go so far as to blame the gun store for the killing, just having made bad business choices that helped the killer get a weapon in the first place.

Those bad business choices sometimes have consequences beyond the immediate store and its owners, and when they do, responsible people call a spade a spade and hold businesses accountable for their corner cutting.

If we don't hold them responsible, the government will in the form of some knee-jerk regulation, which then harms everyone who's doing everything right, AGAIN!

Live the way you would like to see the world become brother, but don't loose sight on what it actually is at this moment, because you wont like it when it blindsides you.

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Your right I see what you are saying. I'll boycott all car manufactures because they sell people cars that kill far more than guns do. I would hate for a car that was stolen to be used in a crime and be used in the killing of a loved one. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming the dealer ship but he should have extra security built into their cars to stop people from stealing them. Yeah, it's my right to do so. We'll just disagree on this point. You just failed to give me a reason why I should boycott.

No, I would not leave a loaded gun on the front seat of my car anywhere. The gun would be with me.

And for some to assume what I do or do not do for my and my family's security or preparations there off is more assumptions.

If I lived there I too would go out of my way to do business with the victim. It was a very ingenious way of breaking in. If he didn't have security why would they need to come through the floor, or did he already have the security that most gun shops have? They exploited a weakness!

Did this man learn from this? You have to ask him.

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I was under the belief that BATFE would inspect store fronts to ensure that security and storage requirements were met before the license was issued....

So, we can at least believe that he met the minimum regulatory requirement for security...

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The building was on a hill. The bottom floor was partially under ground in the side of the hill. On one side where you see the incline exposing more of the bottom floor as you go down, there is an overhang, which is the floor of the upper level. They busted in through that overhang.

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A door salesman once told me a "secret" about his super doors.

Was talking, he's like, you want to know how to get through?

I was like...yea!

He replies with...chainsaw thru the wall.

Me=facepalm. :banghead:

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KOMO's desk anchor was reporting this morning that the thieves only took semi-autos and left the revolvers and rifles, she said ...because semi-automatics hold more ammo and "fire faster".


-Facepalm-


You know, sometimes it just doesn't pay to get up in the morning. Oh the other hand (full perkiness mode) they left all the GOOD stuff!

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Wheelgunner wrote:

KOMO's desk anchor was reporting this morning that the thieves only took semi-autos and left the revolvers and rifles, she said ...because semi-automatics hold more ammo and "fire faster".


-Facepalm-


You know, sometimes it just doesn't pay to get up in the morning. Oh the other hand (full perkiness mode) they left all the GOOD stuff!

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Except the BrenTens'


Sorry, these guys should have seen it coming, and they were idiots for not. They did the bare minimum, and they got hit. Knowing insurance investigators the way I do, chances are, this place is going to have to fight tooth and nail in court to get paid.

If they do, they will probably win if they they met the minimum under the law, but it will probably end up being a settlement.

Again, when you keep guns at the level of a small armory, and then advertise that fact, you don't get to secure them like Joe Schmo at home and expect nothing will happen.

If they go out of business, I say good riddance to a bad example.

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Well that sucks. I used to be a dedicated customer of that store when I lived on that side of the state. I bought my first three sidearms and a rifle from them. Not to mention a TON of ammo.

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911Boss wrote:

Leaving guns in display cases while closed, not having security cameras, higher end alarm, or other security measures may not be the best or smartest way to do business, but lets keep the blame where it belongs - on the criminals involved.

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I agree and disagree with the above. First, I have a hard time thinking of a gun store I have been in recently that doesn't have MAJOR security for its handguns. Sportsman Wholesale (old Sportsman Warehouse) in Burlington has a steel door that encloses the handguns for the night. Most every other store puts the guns in a safe overnight rather than relying on the glass case to keep them secure. After all, how many times have we seen the old "truck through the front door" trick. With the door gone, the thieves merely run in, grab everything they can in 60 seconds, and leave, possibly before the call is dispatched to patrol cars. To leave the most attractive items to a thief outside some kind of secondary security doesn't trip my "Smart Meter".

Second, we can definitely place some of the blame on the criminals. Bear in mind though that the responsibility here is shared. The criminals stole the guns but the owner was remiss (or perhaps lazy) and failed to provide the one level of security that would have kept approximately 100 guns off the street. His loss but the gun owners of this country will be painted with the same brush by those who hate guns and blame the number in the black market on careless gun owners.

If gun dealers aren't selling guns to criminals (and most do not) then the largest source has to be theft. Somehow I don't see how this shop owner saved anything when he avoided buying a safe. Let's see, gun safe 1 or 2 thousand, 100 guns of average value- $50,000 or more.

In closing, I was in the shop about a year ago. Hadn't been there since he moved from his original location. My overall impression was "a shop that was either going out of business or waiting for someone to make an offer to buy". This theft is tickling my BS meter somewhat but I'll wait to see what comes of the investigation.

BTW, did the thieves make off with the "bound book". Those of you who are FFL's will know the significance of that.

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I went to that store once. It was far to over priced and his attitude was not welcoming at all. I saw crap there I can buy at walmart for half the price...

I suppose if he was not such a rip off and appeared to care about his customers then thieves would have gotten less stuff as most of those guns would have been sold...

But I have only been in there once. Maybe he was having a bad day. But I did call there to see how much an ffl transfer would be and he was @$$hole about it.

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Glocked and Loaded wrote:

I went to that store once. It was far to over priced and his attitude was not welcoming at all. I saw crap there I can buy at walmart for half the price...

I suppose if he was not such a rip off and appeared to care about his customers then thieves would have gotten less stuff as most of those guns would have been sold...

But I have only been in there once. Maybe he was having a bad day. But I did call there to see how much an ffl transfer would be and he was @$$hole about it.

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10-4 on the attitude and his being a "buttwipe".

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More guns stolen:

http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=51485

SANFORD, Fla. --


WFTV found out Tuesday an elite and dangerous gun is on the streets after being stolen from a Sanford SWAT officer. Investigators believe car burglars swiped it from inside the officer's unmarked patrol car at his Volusia County home. Investigators aren't sure if the car doors were even locked.

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Not trying to bash LE, but the last line here is key. I was thinking of it from a negligence point of view. Anytime I leave a firearm in my car (because I am forced) I am extra careful in making sure the car is locked and the alarm is active.

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gogodawgs wrote:

More guns stolen:

http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=51485

SANFORD, Fla. --


WFTV found out Tuesday an elite and dangerous gun is on the streets after being stolen from a Sanford SWAT officer. Investigators believe car burglars swiped it from inside the officer's unmarked patrol car at his Volusia County home. Investigators aren't sure if the car doors were even locked.

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Not trying to bash LE, but the last line here is key. I was thinking of it from a negligence point of view. Anytime I leave a firearm in my car (because I am forced) I am extra careful in making sure the car is locked and the alarm is active.

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Precisely, I even take the extra step of putting it in a hidden, locked safe.

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gogodawgs wrote:

Not trying to bash LE, but the last line here is key. I was thinking of it from a negligence point of view. Anytime I leave a firearm in my car (because I am forced) I am extra careful in making sure the car is locked and the alarm is active.

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A huge majority of the police that I SEE, and I see quite a bit, leave their car ON, and unlocked IN CASE they need to run back to it. But quite often they don't need to do that...and that's when stuff happens, kawazy people get bold and jump in patrol cars and do doughnuts...

like this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fK11tUYIdI