Guns stolen.....

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kenshin wrote:

Precisely, I even take the extra step of putting it in a hidden, locked safe.

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There is a small gunsafe mounted under a seat in my Scion xB, and if I'm forced to leave my pistols in the car, that's where they go: In the gunsafe, under the seat, in a locked car with the alarm activated (alarm even has passive activation after 30 seconds, should I forget).

I don't know about Florida, but here in Washington state concealed in a locked car is a requirement, IIRC*, though I have seen LEOs leave visible arms in an unlocked vehicle more than once...


* RCW 9.41.050 (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

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You forgot to exceptions to the law.

RCW 9.41.060Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060
The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

(1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

(2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

(3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

(5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

(10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

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FMCDH wrote:

You forgot to exceptions to the law.

RCW 9.41.060Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060
The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

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Uh, I didn't forget .060 because I don't really see anything in it that says ANYONE is excepted from the requirement to leave firearms left in a car out of sight in a locked vehicle...

If I missed that legal exception somehow, I apologize... :?
________

RCW 9.41.050 (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
________

Perhaps you are suggesting that the requirement for an unattended firearm left in a vehicle to be out of sight and the vehicle locked doesn't apply to a LEO because they aren't required to have a license to carry?

If that's the case, would that mean it would be legit for them to just leave their service pistol laying on the front seat in an unlocked, unattended vehicle while they parked it overnight in their driveway?

Eh... I hope not.

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Tomas wrote:

<SNIP>

Perhaps you are suggesting that the requirement for an unattended firearm left in a vehicle to be out of sight and the vehicle locked doesn't apply to a LEO because they aren't required to have a license to carry?

If that's the case, would that mean it would be legit for them to just leave their service pistol laying on the front seat in an unlocked, unattended vehicle while they parked it overnight in their driveway?

Eh... I hope not.

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That's what I thought you were asking, yes.

And yes, it would be legal for them to do so by the letter of the law as I am interpreting it.

That being said, it would be certainly be unwise, and chances are it would be against their departmental policy.

I seriously doubt they would be charged with the crime as stated under 9.41.050 however if they were ever caught doing so.

Perhaps one of our LEO members might chime in an give their take.

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Tomas wrote:

FMCDH wrote:

You forgot to exceptions to the law.

RCW 9.41.060Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060
The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

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Uh, I didn't forget .060 because I don't really see anything in it that says ANYONE is excepted from the requirement to leave firearms left in a car out of sight in a locked vehicle...

If I missed that legal exception somehow, I apologize... :?

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As written, the entirety of 9.41.050 shall not apply to the exceptions as stated in 9.41.060.

That's the way I am reading it, but...IANAL, so maybe we can get one of our actual lawyer members to chime in.

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They are not required to keep the firearm out of sight in a locked car just the same as they are allowed to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle.

The law says that none of the provisions of .050 apply to LEO. Locking your car with the pistol out of view is part of .050 and LEO are exempt from it.

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Urk! I see what you are saying.

You are correct that they are possibly exempted from the entirety of .050...

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Tomas wrote:

Urk! I see what you are saying.

You are correct that they are possibly exempted from the entirety of .050...

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for all practical perposses they seem to be exempt from all of 9.41...

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Locking your car with the pistol out of view is part of .050 and LEO are exempt from it.

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Not quite true. Every agency/department had their own policy, which typically prohibits leaving weapons unlocked or in plain sight in vehicles. Same for their facilities (rules apply to visiting personnel as well). Cannot leave weapons in plain sight in personal/unmarked vehicles in any department or facility that I know of (esp. the jails and correctional facilities), and the only firearms commonly left in plain sight are shotguns/patrol riflesin lockable racks in marked vehicles.

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Bo wrote:

Locking your car with the pistol out of view is part of .050 and LEO are exempt from it.

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Not quite true.  Every agency/department had their own policy, which typically prohibits leaving weapons unlocked or in plain sight in vehicles.  Same for their facilities (rules apply to visiting personnel as well).  Cannot leave weapons in plain sight in personal/unmarked vehicles in any department or facility that I know of (esp. the jails and correctional facilities), and the only firearms commonly left in plain sight are shotguns/patrol rifles in lockable racks in marked vehicles.

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Uhhh, we are not talking about internal policies of the different agencies. We are talking about exemptions to the RCW's. Policy is a whole other topic.

Please explain what is untrue about what I said.

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Bo, while the officers may be prohibited by "department policy" from leaving an unattended weapon visible on the front seat of an unlocked parked car, that is a lot different from being subject to a LAW that prohibits the same.

Being exempted from the law means also being exempted from arrest and prosecution for not following it.

It actually places the officers above the law in this case. I simply feel that is bad precedent. That just bothers me.

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Udpate:

Reward Offered>

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2011607481_reward_offered_in_lynnwood_gun.html

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this is very sad news. i live on hwy 99 a short drive from this gun store and ive done alot of business with Randy. hes a typical small time gun store owner (cranky old man) but once you get to know him hes actually a good guy. he used to hook me up with killer deals on 7.62x54r surplus and i still go to him when i need 7.62x25.

come to think of it, i think ill give em a call and see how things are going.

-matt

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What a great store. It's very unfortunate this happened. If you only went in once I can see how you might get a less than favorable impression of the owner, but if you are sociable and a repeat customer he is very nice, helpful and a pretty good guy.

One of the very few distributors of American Pioneer Powder, and a great shop for reloading supplies.

I'm surprised at all the comments on putting "all" the guns in a gunsafe. Where I shop the most, there are literally hundreds of guns on the walls, the counters, floorspace etc. There is no way to put them all in a gun safe and take them out in the morning. That would require hours and hours of work.

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n15wb wrote:

Where I shop the most, there are literally hundreds of guns on the walls, the counters, floorspace etc. There is no way to put them all in a gun safe and take them out in the morning. That would require hours and hours of work.

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Big electromagnets in the counters and walls, turned on when the shop closes at night.

Side benefit: if a burglar tries to take something he'll get pinned by his watch or belt buckle or keys in his pocket or piercings (or all of the above) and be waiting there when the cops show up.

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John Hardin wrote:

Big electromagnets in the counters and walls, turned on when the shop closes at night.

Side benefit: if a burglar tries to take something he'll get pinned by his watch or belt buckle or keys in his pocket or piercings (or all of the above) and be waiting there when the cops show up.

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And the Truck Monkey re-outfitted to perform duties as a Counter Monkey jumps out and beats the snot out of the burglar as he or she is pinned to the counter.:idea:

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John Hardin wrote:

Big electromagnets in the counters and walls, turned on when the shop closes at night.

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But what would you do for the Glocks?

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antispam540 wrote:

John Hardin wrote:

Big electromagnets in the counters and walls, turned on when the shop closes at night.

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But what would you do for the Glocks?

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You're right, that would leave all the Glock 7s open to easy theft.

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Poosharker wrote:

gogodawgs wrote:

Not trying to bash LE, but the last line here is key. I was thinking of it from a negligence point of view. Anytime I leave a firearm in my car (because I am forced) I am extra careful in making sure the car is locked and the alarm is active.

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A huge majority of the police that I SEE, and I see quite a bit, leave their car ON, and unlocked IN CASE they need to run back to it. But quite often they don't need to do that...and that's when stuff happens, kawazy people get bold and jump in patrol cars and do doughnuts...

like this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fK11tUYIdI

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YOU BOYS LIKE MEXICO?! WOOOO

I love that movie.

And you've got to admit, the thieves of the gun store were pretty clever. I wouldn't have thought to go in that way.

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For the usual "honest" non-crook type of person, it is really easy to lose sight that a box like that store has six sides, and to consider all six.

We are so used to just looking at protecting doors and windows, that we often don't even look at the walls, let alone the floor and ceiling.

(That's how some friends in Puyallup lost a bunch of stuff - the burglars completely bypassed all the door and window protection and alarms by chainsawing a totally new "doorway" in the back wall.)