Calguns Foundation and Attorney Jason Davis get wrongfully seized firearm returned with NO CHARGES!

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hoffmang wrote:

LOC where legal in California is fine and something we'd happily defend.

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Technically, that is what this website has always defined open carry as on our maps - carry of a properly holstered loaded handgun - see definition at http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html- hence why we code California as a "rural only" open carry state.

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Mike wrote:

flintlock tom wrote:

I'm all for taking the high ground, Mike, but it's hard to ignore . . .

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Maybe I'm gettin' old (birthday this week, don't ask how old), but that snip's all I needed to read and my aging brain was instantlyfilled with old adages from my parents, teachers, and Sunday sermons, e.g., two wrong don't make a right; turn the other cheek; if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anythng at all; etc.

These adages are not iron clad rules but do have some grains of truth to them I think and cautions one to just chill a little sometimes especially on these online forums that the whole planet can read.

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Mike, you make too much sense. You have earned my respect with your actions, words and strength of character.
You have heard the last critical words from me on this subject.

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It really doesn't matter any more that we're right.

They've made their decision, now we've just got to accept that the best thing for us to do is to unite with them.

Sometimes people make bad decisions. But, they aren't your decisions to make.

I'm ready to move on, even though I believe to my core CGF took the wrong stance.

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The Calguns Foundation is not Calguns.net. You can take up why you were banned with Calguns.net but that has nothing to do with what CGF will or will not do.

It's been explained in depth on CGN why CGF doesn't feel that UOC in urban California is a good idea at this time. One of the current issues is the Saldaña bill to ban UOC. There will come a time in the near future where the CGF policy is likely to change.

-Gene

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hoffmang wrote:

There will come a time in the near future where the CGF policy is likely to change.

-Gene

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Since I heard you say this to me face-to-face, I sincerely believe you. And that's a time I eagerly await.

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So there are "good times" and "bad times" to excerise and defend constitutional rights ?

Is there a good time or bad time to defend freedom of speech ?

Is there a good time or bad time to defend free excersiseof religion ?

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I'm sorry but both the California Supreme Court and the 9th Circuit both have held conclusively that there is no right to bear arms in California. Your statement might make more sense once the Supreme Court changes that this summer.

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Are you saying its NOT a right to open carry in California right now ?

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Ca Patriot wrote:

Are you saying its NOT a right to open carry in California right now ?

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It isn't against the law, but it isn't a right.

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Gundude wrote:

Ca Patriot wrote:

Are you saying its NOT a right to open carry in California right now ?

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It isn't against the law, but it isn't a right.

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Hmm, thats a weird take on the issue.

I could just imagine the ACLU saying "engaging in homosexual acts isnt against the law but it isnt a right".

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Ca Patriot wrote:

Are you saying its NOT a right to open carry in California right now ?

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Correct. That is the current legal reality. Morally we all generally believe OC and CCW is the right but it is likely going to be one or the other in Ca. based on YET TO BE DECIDED case law.

Thanks Mike for the support!

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Ca Patriot wrote:

I dont know how a group like CalGuns can claim to be about protecting the rights of gun owners but at the same time specifically saying they wont defend an OC'er who is completly legal.

I asked on the CalGuns forum for them to explain why they wont defend law abiding OC'ers and they banned me from their board.

Why doesnt CalGuns just merge with the NRA to support "reasonable and politically safe gun rights"......and oh yeah, keep the donations coming !!

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Once again CGF and CGN are basically separate entity's. What is said and done on CGN is not always the stance of CGF. CGF has to pick and choose the battles they can win and will advance their goals.

I'm with you Mike on the no bashing other 2A groups. It goes right along with no LEO bashing. We are all on the same side just different strategies.

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hoffmang wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

I'm glad CGF was able to help this guy out.  Now I wonder if they can help out Chewy with his PRAR denial from the LAPD.  Just one phone call.

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Chewy was asked to contact Kevin Thomason/Oaklander on CGN. Not sure if he did yet, but please make sure he does as we will help with that.

Love the attitude guys. Helping gunonwners doesn't matter if it's not helping your preferred form of political protest. That attitude makes other gun owners suspicious that it's all about you and not all about gun rights.

-Gene

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Good to learn CGF is going to help out with this. I would encourage everyone here to send in a donation for this effort. CGF may not always help out UOCers but when they do we should support them.

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OK - just got off the phone with Chewy. He will be forwarding me the documents, and we will determine how we can help.

Please remember that Calguns.net and the Calguns Foundation are separate. CGF has asked UOC people to stand down at this time, but we have also been involved in the defense of several UOC cases as well.

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With respect to the topic of the original post, all it takes sometimes is a call to CGF, and we can handle a lot of matters without even having to resort to litigation.

There are a LOT of cases (UOC and non-UOC) where LE/DA's make wrong choices based on lack of information. Sometimes all we have to do is to educate them.

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Ca Patriot wrote:

I dont know how a group like CalGuns can claim to be about protecting the rights of gun owners but at the same time specifically saying they wont defend an OC'er who is completly legal. 

I asked on the CalGuns forum for them to explain why they wont defend law abiding OC'ers and they banned me from their board.

Why doesnt CalGuns just merge with the NRA to support "reasonable and politically safe gun rights"......and oh yeah, keep the donations coming !!

 

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Because you sir do not see a greater picture as some CalGunners do see right now. Just look up what Alan Gura is doing for gun owners right now. Spend 8 hours researching and then come back here and dare tell us OC is a secure legal right.

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Streetbikerr6 wrote:

Ca Patriot wrote:

I dont know how a group like CalGuns can claim to be about protecting the rights of gun owners but at the same time specifically saying they wont defend an OC'er who is completly legal.

I asked on the CalGuns forum for them to explain why they wont defend law abiding OC'ers and they banned me from their board.

Why doesnt CalGuns just merge with the NRA to support "reasonable and politically safe gun rights"......and oh yeah, keep the donations coming !!

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Because you sir do not see a greater picture as some CalGunners do see right now. Just look up what Alan Gura is doing for gun owners right now. Spend 8 hours researching and then come back here and dare tell us OC is a secure legal right.

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In America, prosecutors dont give you "rights", they only prosecute what is specifically prohibited under state code. I dont see anywhere in CA penal code that specifically prohibits open carry. Therefore I see it as something a prosecutor CANT prosecute you for. Thus, if a group like CalGuns wont defend someone falsely prosecuted for something that isnt against the law then I question them.

I guess what CalGuns is saying is that since open carry isnt a "right" then they wont defend them. I guess then what CalGuns is saying is that they wont stop a DA from prosecuting a citizen over something that ISNT illegal.

Very nice.

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Ca Patriot wrote:

I dont know how a group like CalGuns can claim to be about protecting the rights of gun owners but at the same time specifically saying they wont defend an OC'er who is completly legal.

I asked on the CalGuns forum for them to explain why they wont defend law abiding OC'ers and they banned me from their board.

Why doesnt CalGuns just merge with the NRA to support "reasonable and politically safe gun rights"......and oh yeah, keep the donations coming !!

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It has been explained before; but if its necessary to articulate it again in a different voice, I will oblige.

1) This right to keep and bear arms is not yet a reality in California. There is neither a right codified in our state Constitution nor are the courts in California inclined to rule in favor of such a right...Until the higher court rules otherwise

2) The supreme court is poised to release a ruling that will incorporate the 2nd amendment into the states. This is mere weeks away... Once the 2nd is incorporated, California courts will be bound to the SCOTUS decision.

3) Calguns has NRA members among its membership as well as OCDO supporters- Calguns, the NRA and OCDO all have different objectives and not all of the goalsare exclusive to their memberships. I would say that Calguns is far more supportive of open carrythan the NRA has been- this will be far more demonstrable when incorporation is a reality.

4) Donations to the Calguns Foundation have already found their way to help those who open carried. Such funding will find its way to many gun owners who cannot afford to mount a defense against unfounded charges. This funding can only be broadened IF they continue to raise funds for our defense.

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Ca Patriot wrote:

I dont know how a group like CalGuns can claim to be about protecting the rights of gun owners but at the same time specifically saying they wont defend an OC'er who is completly legal.

I asked on the CalGuns forum for them to explain why they wont defend law abiding OC'ers and they banned me from their board.

Why doesnt CalGuns just merge with the NRA to support "reasonable and politically safe gun rights"......and oh yeah, keep the donations coming !!

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Nice try on claiming your 4 day ban was in any way connected to OC and on making it sound like you were permabanned.

You can call it what you want but I know why I banned you and it had nothing to do with your position on OC and everything to do with you insulting another member, accusing him of being a pedophile and suggesting a 'welfare check' on his granddaughter.

Now my question is why are giving false information about why you were banned and what else might you be less than truthful about....

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RE: Kestryll

That's weird, anyone notice the bottom thread from his Calguns net?...
The Calguns Foundation - Board Member. DONATE NOW! Your dollars go DIRECTLY to front-line legal activism in CA.
Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of The Calguns Foundation